Knicks · Team is a fcking disaster (page 4)

BRIGGS wrote:Can we trade Melo for 3 first round picks and two young player and jut rebuild?

No, we missed our chance to do that when we refused to deal with Chicago this past Summer. Now, Melo has a max deal and full no-trade clause; if we end up trading him we're not going to get full value back.

TPercy wrote:Team a Fucvking disaster? Or his Disaster fucking the team?

H1AND1 wrote:The upshot is we have our pick and if these azzholes destroy the season it might actually be pretty high!

And so what if Melo has a no trade clause if he truly is miserable and some team wants him then maybe he wants to walk? We can dream, no?

Because he's already learned his lesson here and if another team gives up too much for him he'll veto the trade.

Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:What part does "rebuilding year" does some of you not get?
Building a culture does not include "Panic".
2-1 and Phil says he surprised. Get it now?

Figures that everyone would ignore this post......We are in full rebuild mode. Melo is the only player on this roster that starts for the majority of NBA teams....Some of these guys are 8th or 9th men off the bench (for good teams) while the rest who are getting playing time for us would be collecting DNP's

We are not in full rebuild mode. If we were we wouldn't have Tyson for Calderon, Dalembert, and a 2nd. And we wouldn't have refused to any S&T involving Melo. The plan is clearly to be decent this year, at least above .500, and go into the offseason with a a decent core intact with a bunch of cap space to sign 1 major free agent.

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

VCoug wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:What part does "rebuilding year" does some of you not get?
Building a culture does not include "Panic".
2-1 and Phil says he surprised. Get it now?

Figures that everyone would ignore this post......We are in full rebuild mode. Melo is the only player on this roster that starts for the majority of NBA teams....Some of these guys are 8th or 9th men off the bench (for good teams) while the rest who are getting playing time for us would be collecting DNP's

We are not in full rebuild mode. If we were we wouldn't have Tyson for Calderon, Dalembert, and a 2nd. And we wouldn't have refused to any S&T involving Melo. The plan is clearly to be decent this year, at least above .500, and go into the offseason with a a decent core intact with a bunch of cap space to sign 1 major free agent.

Wrong choice of words on my part but this is a rebuilding year.....

Uptown wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:What part does "rebuilding year" does some of you not get?
Building a culture does not include "Panic".
2-1 and Phil says he surprised. Get it now?

Figures that everyone would ignore this post......We are in full rebuild mode. Melo is the only player on this roster that starts for the majority of NBA teams....Some of these guys are 8th or 9th men off the bench (for good teams) while the rest who are getting playing time for us would be collecting DNP's

We are not in full rebuild mode. If we were we wouldn't have Tyson for Calderon, Dalembert, and a 2nd. And we wouldn't have refused to any S&T involving Melo. The plan is clearly to be decent this year, at least above .500, and go into the offseason with a a decent core intact with a bunch of cap space to sign 1 major free agent.

Wrong choice of words on my part but this is a rebuilding year.....

It's a re-tooling. We swapped out some tools for other tools and hope to bring in more tools next year.

Call it what you will, rebuilding, re-tool whatever. The 1 guy who is a guarantee to be here for the long haul has to lead. He has to be the one to take charge and execute the system.

Otherwise what FA in their right mind is going to want to come here?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

Deron Williams 10-15 29 pts....Shump was atrocious on defense but as usual, most posters only want to talk about the offensive end of the floor..

Splat wrote:

Uptown wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:What part does "rebuilding year" does some of you not get?
Building a culture does not include "Panic".
2-1 and Phil says he surprised. Get it now?

Figures that everyone would ignore this post......We are in full rebuild mode. Melo is the only player on this roster that starts for the majority of NBA teams....Some of these guys are 8th or 9th men off the bench (for good teams) while the rest who are getting playing time for us would be collecting DNP's

We are not in full rebuild mode. If we were we wouldn't have Tyson for Calderon, Dalembert, and a 2nd. And we wouldn't have refused to any S&T involving Melo. The plan is clearly to be decent this year, at least above .500, and go into the offseason with a a decent core intact with a bunch of cap space to sign 1 major free agent.

Wrong choice of words on my part but this is a rebuilding year.....

It's a re-tooling. We swapped out some tools for other tools and hope to bring in more tools next year.

Semantics...bottom line, the roster is loaded with below average players that are merely place holders and most are not in the long term plans of the team. With that said, did anyone really expect this team to win much, let alone look good with 5 new players in the rotation and a new coach and new system, 6 games in?

Uptown wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

Deron Williams 10-15 29 pts....Shump was atrocious on defense but as usual, most posters only want to talk about the offensive end of the floor..

No, actually it was discussed in the game thread and myself and others noted that Shump was receiving no help defense most of the game. Deron could back him down and get easy looks, but Shump was often between his man and the basket. The team was not playing defense as a unit is the much bigger problem. Singling out Shump because his man went off doesn't really account for what happened most of the night.

Uptown wrote:

Splat wrote:
It's a re-tooling. We swapped out some tools for other tools and hope to bring in more tools next year.

Semantics...bottom line, the roster is loaded with below average players that are merely place holders and most are not in the long term plans of the team. With that said, did anyone really expect this team to win much, let alone look good with 5 new players in the rotation and a new coach and new system, 6 games in?

It was a joke, semantically speaking

Uptown wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

Deron Williams 10-15 29 pts....Shump was atrocious on defense but as usual, most posters only want to talk about the offensive end of the floor..

You would think playing out of position vs one of the best PGs in the game, the Knicks would've had a plan to help Shumpert. There was no help. Not once.

Splat wrote:

Uptown wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

Deron Williams 10-15 29 pts....Shump was atrocious on defense but as usual, most posters only want to talk about the offensive end of the floor..

No, actually it was discussed in the game thread and myself and others noted that Shump was receiving no help defense most of the game. Deron could back him down and get easy looks, but Shump was often between his man and the basket. The team was not playing defense as a unit is the much bigger problem. Singling out Shump because his man went off doesn't really account for what happened most of the night.

I singled him out because he was singled out by another poster for playing well which was not the case...you are right that as team we are not very good defensively which is a bigger indictment on the team and coach. The Lakers and Bulls teams that played exclusive triangle were also really good defensive teams that won plenty of games because of their defense....The only difference I see defensively between this years team and the last couple of years is we are not switching as much out top. Other than that, our help principals are still very High schoolish.....

Knowing the triangle is going to take time to grasp, defense should be stressed....

Splat wrote:

Uptown wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert, JR, amare, THJ and jason smith are playing well. Why is Melo shooting 21 shots and hitting only 5?

agreed

Deron Williams 10-15 29 pts....Shump was atrocious on defense but as usual, most posters only want to talk about the offensive end of the floor..

No, actually it was discussed in the game thread and myself and others noted that Shump was receiving no help defense most of the game. Deron could back him down and get easy looks, but Shump was often between his man and the basket. The team was not playing defense as a unit is the much bigger problem. Singling out Shump because his man went off doesn't really account for what happened most of the night.

Yea the box score doesn't tell the story.

It's easy to look at melo's 5-21 and say he had an off night shooting. But if you watch the game you will see that there was more to it than that. His body language was despicable and he completely abandoned the triangle.

Then to make matters worse he wears that hat during the post game and talks about the teams energy level when he was the main culprit for breaking plays out of sheer laziness. And he's done it for 3 consecutive games

Uptown wrote:
I singled him out because he was singled out by another poster for playing well which was not the case...you are right that as team we are not very good defensively which is a bigger indictment on the team and coach. The Lakers and Bulls teams that played exclusive triangle were also really good defensive teams that won plenty of games because of their defense....The only difference I see defensively between this years team and the last couple of years is we are not switching as much out top. Other than that, our help principals are still very High schoolish.....

Knowing the triangle is going to take time to grasp, defense should be stressed....

I would have agreed with you before the season started. After all, most any of us want a good defensive team.

But what I see now is very little hope the team will stop others this season. Sure, we can play wayyyy better D, but our personnel lacks enough guards to prevent penetration and very little hardcore size with the defensive knack in the interior.

So it is gonna be a long season and any good team is going to score on us.

What changed for me is not my expectations, since this still looks like a sub-30 win team to me this year, but how we'll win those games, which is basically by outscoring other teams. That's why you lose 50 games. But it is better than losing 65 games.

Sure, you have to teach defense, but we don't have the players to stop teams, so they better hope they learn the triangle or this team will only win under 20 games.

Splat wrote:

Uptown wrote:
I singled him out because he was singled out by another poster for playing well which was not the case...you are right that as team we are not very good defensively which is a bigger indictment on the team and coach. The Lakers and Bulls teams that played exclusive triangle were also really good defensive teams that won plenty of games because of their defense....The only difference I see defensively between this years team and the last couple of years is we are not switching as much out top. Other than that, our help principals are still very High schoolish.....

Knowing the triangle is going to take time to grasp, defense should be stressed....

I would have agreed with you before the season started. After all, most any of us want a good defensive team.

But what I see now is very little hope the team will stop others this season. Sure, we can play wayyyy better D, but our personnel lacks enough guards to prevent penetration and very little hardcore size with the defensive knack in the interior.

So it is gonna be a long season and any good team is going to score on us.

What changed for me is not my expectations, since this still looks like a sub-30 win team to me this year, but how we'll win those games, which is basically by outscoring other teams. That's why you lose 50 games. But it is better than losing 65 games.

Sure, you have to teach defense, but we don't have the players to stop teams, so they better hope they learn the triangle or this team will only win under 20 games.

Six games in, seventy six games left hard to draw a conclusion on how the rest of the season is going to play out in my opinion. One thing that concerns me is the triangle as an offense stinks if you are playing from behind.

Melo need to let game come to him. That the problem. This continue all year, hey we got lotto pick!

Philly is in much better position that we are in. Also if this triangle is too much modify it or just use it as a called set every few times in the halfcourt. The excuse will continue to be new guys learning a system. The first year Jackson coached the lal they won yhe championship. This team is just a cluster fck of players atleast c early showed signs of life.

There's no hope if Melo doesn't make the transition. He's the one that matters most. From what i've seen Melo is not really using the system to get him shots. He's kind of doing it but not with gusto. He misses a shot or doesn't get the ball and then he totally loses his energy. I think he's been effected by not having Jose the most. Our PG's are seeming to have a hard time making the entry pass and thus they just don't. They swing the ball rather than make the post feed in the Triangle. When they do this what you get is a lot of the old system which is a 2 man game, so you see PnR and ISO on the weak side. This is the EASIEST part of the Triangle to run cuz it's familiar. So what's happening is all we run is the 2 man stuff.

Another issue is that our bigs aren't really scoring threats in the post. Of course STAT is but he is our WORST passer. Dalembert and Cole actually pass pretty well considering their skills, but they aren't as fear inspiring offensively. So our guards are going away from using the Triangle post part of the offense and that's taking away a huge part of the offense and making things easier for opposing defenses. This is why losing Jose was so huge. He STICKS to the offense and can execute it better than any of our guards. It makes a huge difference when all options are in use rather than just the stuff teams are used to dealing with. We never get to options 3,4,5 so to speak.

This video will help to remind you just how much of the offense the Knicks are still not running even tho this is just summer league it is good to see the options that are available if they execute with energy and make sharp passes and cuts and reads.