Knicks · Team is a fcking disaster (page 5)

There's no hope if Melo doesn't make the transition. He's the one that matters most. From what i've seen Melo is not really using the system to get him shots. He's kind of doing it but not with gusto. He misses a shot or doesn't get the ball and then he totally loses his energy. I think he's been effected by not having Jose the most. Our PG's are seeming to have a hard time making the entry pass and thus they just don't. They swing the ball rather than make the post feed in the Triangle. When they do this what you get is a lot of the old system which is a 2 man game, so you see PnR and ISO on the weak side. This is the EASIEST part of the Triangle to run cuz it's familiar. So what's happening is all we run is the 2 man stuff.

Another issue is that our bigs aren't really scoring threats in the post. Of course STAT is but he is our WORST passer. Dalembert and Cole actually pass pretty well considering their skills, but they aren't as fear inspiring offensively. So our guards are going away from using the Triangle post part of the offense and that's taking away a huge part of the offense and making things easier for opposing defenses. This is why losing Jose was so huge. He STICKS to the offense and can execute it better than any of our guards. It makes a huge difference when all options are in use rather than just the stuff teams are used to dealing with. We never get to options 3,4,5 so to speak.

This video will help to remind you just how much of the offense the Knicks are still not running even tho this is just summer league it is good to see the options that are available if they execute with energy and make sharp passes and cuts and reads.

CrushAlot wrote:
Six games in, seventy six games left hard to draw a conclusion on how the rest of the season is going to play out in my opinion. One thing that concerns me is the triangle as an offense stinks if you are playing from behind.

What can I say? It is just what I see. Unless you can train younger athletic guys to do a full court press and produce havoc and turnovers, you need to have at least enough personnel that can keep its feet in front of their man. Even when we get Jose back, penetration remains a big problem. Some teams will just beast in the middle physically or they'll move the ball to the interior for easy looks like San Antonio. But we just don't have the manpower.

Much as I'd like Cole to become all-world, I'm not holding my breath. We just don't have the guys. We are one of the oldest teams and I warned about that with so many back-to-backs and here we are, yes, six games in, and our starting PG became Shump, because Larkin is a crack baby.

There is little chance the team has the depth to withstand injury and fatigue.

It is not too early to say these are factors that will not go away this season.

My two key variables were:

The Fish factor is in flux now after the euphoria of the Cavs game.

The Melo factor is already setting off loud alarm bells, not something you'd expect even if you're not a big fan of his. He is so lost right now, but you know that already.

What it means is probably either:

1) Melo gets hot and people forget and then we're one more slump away from the same discussions. That is basically back to ISO. It may win you a few more games if Melo is connecting, but it won't bode well for the future. FA's will turn their nose up at this chit if we're just the same version of basketball as we were before.

or

2) Melo steps back and takes stock and realizes the wealth cocoon he secured himself can't insulate him from the personal hell NYC will become for him if he remains stubborn and unreceptive to learning a new system. The team could still struggle mightily and drop a boatload of games, but his teammates will benefit and fans will notice.

The ball is in Melo's court. There is nothing you can really say about this team now that doesn't start with him. This is the bed the franchise made for itself, so it begins and ends with Melo's willingness to become a better teammate. He's doing a poor job so far.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:
Six games in, seventy six games left hard to draw a conclusion on how the rest of the season is going to play out in my opinion. One thing that concerns me is the triangle as an offense stinks if you are playing from behind.

What can I say? It is just what I see. Unless you can train younger athletic guys to do a full court press and produce havoc and turnovers, you need to have at least enough personnel that can keep its feet in front of their man. Even when we get Jose back, penetration remains a big problem. Some teams will just beast in the middle physically or they'll move the ball to the interior for easy looks like San Antonio. But we just don't have the manpower.

Much as I'd like Cole to become all-world, I'm not holding my breath. We just don't have the guys. We are one of the oldest teams and I warned about that with so many back-to-backs and here we are, yes, six games in, and our starting PG became Shump, because Larkin is a crack baby.

There is little chance the team has the depth to withstand injury and fatigue.

It is not too early to say these are factors that will not go away this season.

My two key variables were:

The Fish factor is in flux now after the euphoria of the Cavs game.

The Melo factor is already setting off loud alarm bells, not something you'd expect even if you're not a big fan of his. He is so lost right now, but you know that already.

What it means is probably either:

1) Melo gets hot and people forget and then we're one more slump away from the same discussions. That is basically back to ISO. It may win you a few more games if Melo is connecting, but it won't bode well for the future. FA's will turn their nose up at this chit if we're just the same version of basketball as we were before.

or

2) Melo steps back and takes stock and realizes the wealth cocoon he secured himself can't insulate him from the personal hell NYC will become for him if he remains stubborn and unreceptive to learning a new system. The team could still struggle mightily and drop a boatload of games, but his teammates will benefit and fans will notice.

The ball is in Melo's court. There is nothing you can really say about this team now that doesn't start with him. This is the bed the franchise made for itself, so it begins and ends with Melo's willingness to become a better teammate. He's doing a poor job so far.

I saw something about Melo's current slump and it said it was the worse since 2004. I think the body language is what is concerning. He is in a funk. He was moving really well against Charlotte and Cleveland and hitting his shots.

When yhe cavs were playing the wrong way Lebron spoke up to his teammates as a leader. Which teammate will go up to melo and say wtf? Did anyone see deron williams coaching plumlee last night?

I don't expect melo's poor body language to be addressed through the media but I hope something is being said behind closed doors.

It just isnt acceptable. If not he is being coddled again

CrushAlot wrote:
I saw something about Melo's current slump and it said it was the worse since 2004. I think the body language is what is concerning. He is in a funk. He was moving really well against Charlotte and Cleveland and hitting his shots.

Pressure. The weight is on his back. He is short-circuiting, because he doesn't understand how to play any other way, so he digs himself a deeper hole.

Melo is playing scared. When fear overcomes your faculties, you regress to your animal nature. His nature is hero ball.

Can the cat change its stripes? Dunno, but the Cassandras among us warned of the possibility he cannot.

This is why you need an alpha PG on the same team. Somebody who says STFU Melo, stand there, run here, do as I say. Jose has been complimented by others as being a nice guy and pretty intelligent. He apparently communicates strategy and teaches teammates where to be on the floor.

Is that going to be enough? Dunno. You might need a ballbuster to handle Melo.

I thought Fish might be that guy. Now I don't know. First, he rewarded Amare with a start right after Stat mouthed off about his role. He should've been smacked upside the head for that, not rewarded. But I'm saying Fish needs to put his foot down, because I don't know if there is an alpha teammate of Melo's who will.

The knee jerk reactions are unreal. We are 6 games into a season where we were expected to struggle lol.

Papabear Says

You guys need to stop it now! You all knew from the begining that this is a throw away season and we are not going to make the play offs again. The team begins next season. All of you knew that so why complain? This is a bad team. I refuse to get bent out of shape this season. They will win some nice games this season but to win 30 - 35 win will be great, Melo knows this team stinks. He had to be convinced to suck it up this season and wait till next year.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

You guys need to stop it now! You all knew from the begining that this is a throw away season and we are not going to make the play offs again. The team begins next season. All of you knew that so why complain? This is a bad team. I refuse to get bent out of shape this season. They will win some nice games this season but to win 30 - 35 win will be great, Melo knows this team stinks. He had to be convinced to suck it up this season and wait till next year.

why are people talking about melo? people should be more concerned with the horrible defensive showing as a whole, not melo missing shots.

Splat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

You guys need to stop it now! You all knew from the begining that this is a throw away season and we are not going to make the play offs again. The team begins next season. All of you knew that so why complain? This is a bad team. I refuse to get bent out of shape this season. They will win some nice games this season but to win 30 - 35 win will be great, Melo knows this team stinks. He had to be convinced to suck it up this season and wait till next year.

Papabear Says

Ha Ha Splat you are the 24-7 poster thread man. the 24-7 bloger. When do you sleep?

They've been atrocious defensively but by their own admittance they are letting their struggles on offense effect their defensive intensity.

It's been a problem for years now with this core

Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

Ha Ha Splat you are the 24-7 poster thread man. the 24-7 bloger. When do you sleep?

The reason this is such a big deal is because the whole plan is to go into next Summer with cap space and sign a big name free agent. But, no one will sign here if we're atrocious, which we are right now. We also lost our best chance to rebuild when we traded Tyson for Dalembert, Calderon, and a 2nd and refused to deal with Chicago. We possibly could have gotten 4 1st round picks in last year's loaded draft from OKC and Chicago if we had played our cards right and instead we attempted to improve the team this year. Sure, Calderon is hurt but as much as I like him he isn't single-handedly turning around this team. (And don't talk to me about Bargnani.)

VCoug wrote:The reason this is such a big deal is because the whole plan is to go into next Summer with cap space and sign a big name free agent. But, no one will sign here if we're atrocious, which we are right now. We also lost our best chance to rebuild when we traded Tyson for Dalembert, Calderon, and a 2nd and refused to deal with Chicago. We possibly could have gotten 4 1st round picks in last year's loaded draft from OKC and Chicago if we had played our cards right and instead we attempted to improve the team this year. Sure, Calderon is hurt but as much as I like him he isn't single-handedly turning around this team. (And don't talk to me about Bargnani.)

Tyson probably brought us our best value mid-season last year. Clubs were knocking on the door with deals. I think most fans thought it was a bad idea, but most fans are slow to come to grips with asset management time frames. By the time most fans are coming to grips with the urgency of a situation, the opportunity has already passed. Tyson's value to be dealt was highest then. Not pulling the trigger then was a mistake. This team could have also had Lowry plus extra picks and additional quality rookie talent THIS YEAR.

Crap, just realized this is another back-to-back night. Defending the Hawks tonight? drum roll please

Splat wrote:

VCoug wrote:The reason this is such a big deal is because the whole plan is to go into next Summer with cap space and sign a big name free agent. But, no one will sign here if we're atrocious, which we are right now. We also lost our best chance to rebuild when we traded Tyson for Dalembert, Calderon, and a 2nd and refused to deal with Chicago. We possibly could have gotten 4 1st round picks in last year's loaded draft from OKC and Chicago if we had played our cards right and instead we attempted to improve the team this year. Sure, Calderon is hurt but as much as I like him he isn't single-handedly turning around this team. (And don't talk to me about Bargnani.)

Tyson probably brought us our best value mid-season last year. Clubs were knocking on the door with deals. I think most fans thought it was a bad idea, but most fans are slow to come to grips with asset management time frames. By the time most fans are coming to grips with the urgency of a situation, the opportunity has already passed. Tyson's value to be dealt was highest then. Not pulling the trigger then was a mistake. This team could have also had Lowry plus extra picks and additional quality rookie talent THIS YEAR.

Tell me about it. A few years ago I kept on talking about trading Tyson to LAC for Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan. And I've been talking about trading him to OKC for Perkins and various other assets for a few years now.

VCoug wrote:The reason this is such a big deal is because the whole plan is to go into next Summer with cap space and sign a big name free agent. But, no one will sign here if we're atrocious, which we are right now. We also lost our best chance to rebuild when we traded Tyson for Dalembert, Calderon, and a 2nd and refused to deal with Chicago. We possibly could have gotten 4 1st round picks in last year's loaded draft from OKC and Chicago if we had played our cards right and instead we attempted to improve the team this year. Sure, Calderon is hurt but as much as I like him he isn't single-handedly turning around this team. (And don't talk to me about Bargnani.)

It isn't crazy to think that things could turn around with a healthy Jose. I mean are you really just going to ignore the history and how much of an impact it's had when we got good PG play or just had a guy on the floor with Basketball brains Like Kidd? It damn sure makes a difference if you have a floor leader who showed in preseason that he was the one guy who really understood the triangle. He can help the team make better decisions with the ball and when he does have the ball in his hands he's a highly capable PG. When he doesn't have the ball he's a very effective shooter. It's 30 minutes of high quality, low TO guard play which we haven't been able to replace with him out. Jose would handle the playmaking a lot because our guards will send the ball his way since they know he's a better decision maker and they don't really want to be the guy directing everything.

No it doesn't solve all of our problems but it would be a HUGE improvement to have Jose back in addition to Prigs and Bargs. Kick Bargs all you want but he's another big who actually has skills that fit this system. We need all the offensive help we can get. We've seen this team struggle to get scoring and even last year Bargs was able to score the ball when they gave him touches. He shot 48.7% from midrange last year. He'd get plenty of looks from where he's most effective.

BRIGGS wrote:Can we trade Melo for 3 first round picks and two young player and jut rebuild?

This quote, this post and the emotional NY fans that agree with this quick assessment is why the Knicks are in this mess. With no patients, there's no rebuild. Just jerk reaction moves to keep emotional fans like this happy. As long as the knicks have fans like this, they will continue to be in this mess....Regardless of the management turnover. Lets hope Phil doesn't fall into the same jerk reaction moves as his historical peers. These types of fans are the ones paying the high ticket dollar, which is why they actually run the organization. And why the knicks haven't resembled consistency for over 30 years.

Knixkik wrote:The knee jerk reactions are unreal. We are 6 games into a season where we were expected to struggle lol.

+1000000000

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:The reason this is such a big deal is because the whole plan is to go into next Summer with cap space and sign a big name free agent. But, no one will sign here if we're atrocious, which we are right now. We also lost our best chance to rebuild when we traded Tyson for Dalembert, Calderon, and a 2nd and refused to deal with Chicago. We possibly could have gotten 4 1st round picks in last year's loaded draft from OKC and Chicago if we had played our cards right and instead we attempted to improve the team this year. Sure, Calderon is hurt but as much as I like him he isn't single-handedly turning around this team. (And don't talk to me about Bargnani.)

It isn't crazy to think that things could turn around with a healthy Jose. I mean are you really just going to ignore the history and how much of an impact it's had when we got good PG play or just had a guy on the floor with Basketball brains Like Kidd? It damn sure makes a difference if you have a floor leader who showed in preseason that he was the one guy who really understood the triangle. He can help the team make better decisions with the ball and when he does have the ball in his hands he's a highly capable PG. When he doesn't have the ball he's a very effective shooter. It's 30 minutes of high quality, low TO guard play which we haven't been able to replace with him out. Jose would handle the playmaking a lot because our guards will send the ball his way since they know he's a better decision maker and they don't really want to be the guy directing everything.

No it doesn't solve all of our problems but it would be a HUGE improvement to have Jose back in addition to Prigs and Bargs. Kick Bargs all you want but he's another big who actually has skills that fit this system. We need all the offensive help we can get. We've seen this team struggle to get scoring and even last year Bargs was able to score the ball when they gave him touches. He shot 48.7% from midrange last year. He'd get plenty of looks from where he's most effective.

It would be an improvement but only from eyes-bleeding bad to merely terrible. Our point differential is currently -7.5 which is 4th worst in the league; only Philly, LAL, and OKC are worse. Per 93 possessions (league average) we're scoring 96.5 PPG, 21st in the league, and giving up 104 PPG, 27 in the league.