Knicks · Its a good year to have a top 5 pick--really good talent at the top (page 1)

It could be a franchise changer. If Phil gets us to that goal--maybe picks up an additional young player or draft pick along the way--perhaps dump a salary for next year--thats a win.

I think we are going in the right direction with Melo at 4 Shump at 3 and Timmy 2. We just have nothing up the middle. Multiple big PGs and quality big men in this draft.

Melo at the 4, Shumpert at the 3 and Timmy at the 2 would be a disaster defensively and on the boards, especially as Melo ages. We need to get lengthier and stronger at other positions if we expect to play the 4. I'm with you though on the draft. I think we also need to start exploring trades for more picks in exchange for cap space this summer, particularly with teams that might unexpectedly miss the playoffs e.g. the Hornets, Thunder,Heat, etc.

Just out of curiosity, who and the top 5 talents in this draft and why?

We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

Bonn1997 wrote:We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

I think it really depends on how they feel about the guy they pick and who is available. Remember, Phil drafted Bynum and they held onto him.
If a great player is available in a S&T then they MIGHT go for it, but I'm not really sure. At least with Phil, traditionally speaking,
he doesn't get raped in trades. So, there is hope but we probably feel your worries.

Our lesson thus far from the Melo (and other trades) imo is, don't do them. Just build.

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

I think it really depends on how they feel about the guy they pick and who is available. Remember, Phil drafted Bynum and they held onto him.
If a great player is available in a S&T then they MIGHT go for it, but I'm not really sure. At least with Phil, traditionally speaking,
he doesn't get raped in trades. So, there is hope but we probably feel your worries.

Our lesson thus far from the Melo (and other trades) imo is, don't do them. Just build.

You may be right but I doubt Dolan would have let Phil draft a high school kid. I know the rumor now is that Phil has control but that can change quickly, especially if we finish this season with an Isiah Thomas like win-loss record.

So Phil is a genius cause knicks suck? LOL

MX25 wrote:So Phil is a genius cause knicks suck? LOL

Actually if we are 10 games under at any point trying to sck like the Sixers becomes a strategic priority although we are doing a nice job of it right now while trying.

Bonn1997 wrote:We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

You do understand that the NBA model calls for salaried controlled talent to be part of the equation? In our case--a top 5 pick would be a coup of fortune that we could not replicate in any other fashion. How has our history gone with trading high picks to date?

I would be very happy with a top 5 pick, preferably in the top 3. This franchise needs it. What we do not need is another mediocre season and a mid to late round pick.

I've been thinking about starting a thread dealing with this topic - which is

'what is the best way to add significant talent in the off season- Free Agency or a Draft Pick'

We didn't extend Larkin or Shumpert because, in part, we want max space.

But who exactly are we getting?

Our last big swing FA signing was Amar'e. How does that look now?

Our best chance to significantly improve the talent and fortunes of this franchise is not Phil Jackson, its not a FA signing - its with our own draft pick.

First of all let me say that i hate losing and would never root for the team to tank BUT lets face it this year was never gonna be good because of the terrible contracts and lack of talent. This year is perfect to get a top pick, shed the bad contracts and add more talent in free agency. Next year we will have more talent, our youth developing, and a top pick.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

You do understand that the NBA model calls for salaried controlled talent to be part of the equation? In our case--a top 5 pick would be a coup of fortune that we could not replicate in any other fashion. How has our history gone with trading high picks to date?

Bonn is just trolling again.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We have Melo on a super max for his 13th to 16th years. I doubt they're going to try to develop a rookie. They'd probably trade this pick.

You do understand that the NBA model calls for salaried controlled talent to be part of the equation? In our case--a top 5 pick would be a coup of fortune that we could not replicate in any other fashion. How has our history gone with trading high picks to date?

Well enough to line Dolan's pockets. He cares about ticket and jersey sales

Give me your top 5 Briggs

Couldn't agree with Briggs more
Knicks stink its early though

But we may be on our way to
Top 1-10 lotto pick despite
So so nba draft 2015 class in
June.

Ny going nowhere n it will kill
Melo to again miss playoffs. He is very bad play now

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote: We just have nothing up the middle. Multiple big PGs and quality big men in this draft.

IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)

Where the Knicks project to finish this season ( 30-35 wins), you are looking at a first rounder in the 10-14 range, depending on how the rest of the league shakes out, etc.

As the draft gets closer, all projections start to go out the window. Big men typically make a meteoric rise in the draft rankings as the draft gets closer. Joel Embiid was no better than the 9th-10th rated overall prospect for a while, but positional value shot him up to No#1-No#3.

If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

This may be a case where overpaying Robin Lopez or Omer Asik would be worth it ( I don't enjoy the concept of a free agent overpay, but rim protection is so critical to actually winning basketball games and truly effective defensive pivots are worth gold) and using whatever pick they find to fill a wing slot.

Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league, the Knicks IMHO need to stop burning assets to fill/fix the PG position and do what other good teams do, start mining deep to find value in the 2nd round/UDFA and the 3rd tier of FA to fill that hole.

--->IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)
If we had pick # 12 I wouldve taken Jusuf Nurkic and I think we may have had the best player in the draft or a guy who wouldve been close to the top. Joel Embiid was a consensus #1 pick(and at very worst 3) until he hurt his back

--->If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

I study the draft on the level with anyone here at a minimum and this year 2015 is going to be the best big man draft in the last decade or longer. Kentucky alone may have 3-4 potential NBA all star level frontcourt players alone. It's on the Knicks to really dig in and do their best jobs this year scouting --it may be the most important function of the team this year.

---->Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league

I don't believe this for one second--do you really? Last night I watched a PG chew us up and we had no chance to stop him--the same way Deron Williams chewed us up etc..

A high pick is as valuable as any free agent imho.

EnySpree wrote:Give me your top 5 Briggs

At this point it would be

Okafor Mudiay Towns Harrell and Kaminsky but this is subject to change as w e havent seen any CBB.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote: We just have nothing up the middle. Multiple big PGs and quality big men in this draft.

IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)

Where the Knicks project to finish this season ( 30-35 wins), you are looking at a first rounder in the 10-14 range, depending on how the rest of the league shakes out, etc.

As the draft gets closer, all projections start to go out the window. Big men typically make a meteoric rise in the draft rankings as the draft gets closer. Joel Embiid was no better than the 9th-10th rated overall prospect for a while, but positional value shot him up to No#1-No#3.

If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

This may be a case where overpaying Robin Lopez or Omer Asik would be worth it ( I don't enjoy the concept of a free agent overpay, but rim protection is so critical to actually winning basketball games and truly effective defensive pivots are worth gold) and using whatever pick they find to fill a wing slot.

Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league, the Knicks IMHO need to stop burning assets to fill/fix the PG position and do what other good teams do, start mining deep to find value in the 2nd round/UDFA and the 3rd tier of FA to fill that hole.

--->IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)
If we had pick # 12 I wouldve taken Jusuf Nurkic and I think we may have had the best player in the draft or a guy who wouldve been close to the top. Joel Embiid was a consensus #1 pick(and at very worst 3) until he hurt his back

--->If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

I study the draft on the level with anyone here at a minimum and this year 2015 is going to be the best big man draft in the last decade or longer. Kentucky alone may have 3-4 potential NBA all star level frontcourt players alone. It's on the Knicks to really dig in and do their best jobs this year scouting --it may be the most important function of the team this year.

---->Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league

I don't believe this for one second--do you really? Last night I watched a PG chew us up and we had no chance to stop him--the same way Deron Williams chewed us up etc..

A high pick is as valuable as any free agent imho.

Re: PG, I believe that was TripleThreat's point: That almost every team has good PG's because there are lots of good PG's in the league, the fact that the Knicks for some reason haven't had a good PG in forever notwithstanding.

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote: We just have nothing up the middle. Multiple big PGs and quality big men in this draft.

IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)

Where the Knicks project to finish this season ( 30-35 wins), you are looking at a first rounder in the 10-14 range, depending on how the rest of the league shakes out, etc.

As the draft gets closer, all projections start to go out the window. Big men typically make a meteoric rise in the draft rankings as the draft gets closer. Joel Embiid was no better than the 9th-10th rated overall prospect for a while, but positional value shot him up to No#1-No#3.

If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

This may be a case where overpaying Robin Lopez or Omer Asik would be worth it ( I don't enjoy the concept of a free agent overpay, but rim protection is so critical to actually winning basketball games and truly effective defensive pivots are worth gold) and using whatever pick they find to fill a wing slot.

Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league, the Knicks IMHO need to stop burning assets to fill/fix the PG position and do what other good teams do, start mining deep to find value in the 2nd round/UDFA and the 3rd tier of FA to fill that hole.

--->IIRC, last draft, the Knicks actual draft slot (after the pick being passed around in trades a few times), ended up being No#12 to Philly ( Dario Saric)
If we had pick # 12 I wouldve taken Jusuf Nurkic and I think we may have had the best player in the draft or a guy who wouldve been close to the top. Joel Embiid was a consensus #1 pick(and at very worst 3) until he hurt his back

--->If the Knicks don't get a Top 3 pick, they have close to zero chance to any big man with true upside. At 12, they will have to take a gamble on a big if they do, and it will probably be a reach.

I study the draft on the level with anyone here at a minimum and this year 2015 is going to be the best big man draft in the last decade or longer. Kentucky alone may have 3-4 potential NBA all star level frontcourt players alone. It's on the Knicks to really dig in and do their best jobs this year scouting --it may be the most important function of the team this year.

---->Point guard still has one of the lowest positional values in the league

I don't believe this for one second--do you really? Last night I watched a PG chew us up and we had no chance to stop him--the same way Deron Williams chewed us up etc..

A high pick is as valuable as any free agent imho.

Re: PG, I believe that was TripleThreat's point: That almost every team has good PG's because there are lots of good PG's in the league, the fact that the Knicks for some reason haven't had a good PG in forever notwithstanding.

No he has said this before. he thinks the PG position has a low value compared to the other 4 positions and I do not think it is true. He also says there is almost zero chance we can get a good big man past 3 yet names a 15 pick and a 36 as his choices. On another post he named a bunch of second tier SF's as tier 1 FA possibilities for us. I really do not understand his POV.

A good PG on another team is like Jesus on the Knicks. It will take another two millenia before we know what that feels like apparently.