Go look at a stat sheet, the only person you will know is a starter is Melo..no one is averaging more than 25 minutes a game but melo...where the fck have you ever seen that on a team striving to make the playoffs..
I didn't see the Game against Utah tonight, but i did see the high light to burkes shot, where JR backed off the shot as if he was preparing for a layup with 1 second left..Really
The rotation is a laughing stock,(10x worse then wooodson) i never saw phil playing 12/13/14 guys, talking about i'm trying to figure it out 3 wks in...
WOW..wow wow..Im ready to give up on this franchise and this forum..This is some real bull shit. I'm not venting, I just know bull sht when I see it..
What is wrong about tanking?
What else this roster can handle? And why?
We're definitely not tanking, on purpose; the Tyson-Calderon trade makes 0 sense if we were planning to tank this year. Fisher just might be in over his head. Just ignoring offensive/defensive play calling for now his lineups really don't make any sense. Particularly what should be offense/defense substitutions at the end of quarters are bizarre. And his seeming random decisions on who gets playing time on a game to game basis appears to be the struggles off a first time coach learning the intricacies of his job in real time.
VCoug wrote:We're definitely not tanking, on purpose; the Tyson-Calderon trade makes 0 sense if we were planning to tank this year. Fisher just might be in over his head. Just ignoring offensive/defensive play calling for now his lineups really don't make any sense. Particularly what should be offense/defense substitutions at the end of quarters are bizarre. And his seeming random decisions on who gets playing time on a game to game basis appears to be the struggles off a first time coach learning the intricacies of his job in real time.
He's played in the league for 18 yrs, what coach did he learn that from.
It looks to me like Fish is using this early season to also develop players which is as important as anything else. IMO the minutes our younger players are getting will pay dividends later in the year. I don't see the losing being a season long condition. I think this team will eventually get better and win games. It's not like they're getting blown out every night. It won't take much to go from losing these games to winning them.
I think fish is just evaluating players- Phil said he was planning on having a clear out around December, so I suspect we're just using the time to fathom out who goes. Also who the heck on this roster deserves full time minutes? Nearly all the players ARE 20 minute backups.
VCoug wrote:We're definitely not tanking, on purpose; the Tyson-Calderon trade makes 0 sense if we were planning to tank this year. Fisher just might be in over his head. Just ignoring offensive/defensive play calling for now his lineups really don't make any sense. Particularly what should be offense/defense substitutions at the end of quarters are bizarre. And his seeming random decisions on who gets playing time on a game to game basis appears to be the struggles off a first time coach learning the intricacies of his job in real time.
Maybe the trade makes perfect sense if we're tanking this year.
Not saying that actually is happening though. Dolan's never needed to tank. Losing just happens naturally.
Whether by design or by default, you'll know tanking is accepted by Dolan based on Fish's job security.
If the team loses massively, and it looks like they might, then Fish's status reflects on Dolan's acceptance of what is happening. If Fish remains safe despite an abysmal season, that basically means Dolan understands this may now be unavoidable which extends to Phil retaining his juice which extends to job protection for Fish.
Anyone can see the roster is bad, but it is even worse for someone who has never managed before to coach it. Maybe Fish will turn out fine. He's not doing great so far, but with this roster most coaches would be damn good to have split the games so far.
If the losses pile up and Fish is still standing, then Dolan accepts the writing on the wall and will not feel the need to make Fish the fall guy. That would be a good sign unless Fish turns out to be really, really bad and a lost cause. Otherwise, it would amount to a tacit acceptance we presently suck and need to land a high draft pick.
The only wrinkle in that seems to be whether Phil planted the seeds in Dolan's head to prepare him for this scenario or not. If he did not prepare him for this, then Dolan's old tendencies may flare up.
And that is the crux of whether or not this is intended or not. If it is, Dolan is already down for it. However, if Plan A was to make the playoffs and attract a top FA, Phil had to already know we might suck and tanking was a very good Plan B.
If Phil pre-sold Dolan on Plan A + Plan B, then nobody will pack their bags whether the tank is planned or not.
smackeddog wrote:I think fish is just evaluating players- Phil said he was planning on having a clear out around December, so I suspect we're just using the time to fathom out who goes. Also who the heck on this roster deserves full time minutes? Nearly all the players ARE 20 minute backups.
I agree 100% and I think this is the biggest part - we have a lot of talent, but the problem is, its marginal talent that isn't necessarily starter caliber talent.
This year was always gonna be Rough but at least we can get a top draft pick. Then we will have salary cap room this summer
knicks1248 wrote:Go look at a stat sheet, the only person you will know is a starter is Melo..no one is averaging more than 25 minutes a game but melo...where the fck have you ever seen that on a team striving to make the playoffs..I didn't see the Game against Utah tonight, but i did see the high light to burkes shot, where JR backed off the shot as if he was preparing for a layup with 1 second left..Really
The rotation is a laughing stock,(10x worse then wooodson) i never saw phil playing 12/13/14 guys, talking about i'm trying to figure it out 3 wks in...
WOW..wow wow..Im ready to give up on this franchise and this forum..This is some real bull shit. I'm not venting, I just know bull sht when I see it..
Occams Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
This roster is just not very good. That explanation makes more sense than an organized team wide tank. Think about it: Which player besides Melo starts on a contending team? Which player even makes the rotation?
knicks1248 wrote:Go look at a stat sheet, the only person you will know is a starter is Melo..no one is averaging more than 25 minutes a game but melo...where the fck have you ever seen that on a team striving to make the playoffs..I didn't see the Game against Utah tonight, but i did see the high light to burkes shot, where JR backed off the shot as if he was preparing for a layup with 1 second left..Really
The rotation is a laughing stock,(10x worse then wooodson) i never saw phil playing 12/13/14 guys, talking about i'm trying to figure it out 3 wks in...
WOW..wow wow..Im ready to give up on this franchise and this forum..This is some real bull shit. I'm not venting, I just know bull sht when I see it..
The only reason I consider this disappointing and frustrating is because they said they were gonna try and compete this year which is an obvious lie. Say what you will ahout him, but JR was the only NBA caliber player suited up last night besides Melo. He needed to be on the floor every second Melo wasn't. To start the 4th quarter, you'd have to make a case for any of the players the Knicks had on the floor to be anything more than a 10th man in this league. I'm fine with the tanking, but wish they didn't set an expectation that they would be trying this year.
H1AND1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Go look at a stat sheet, the only person you will know is a starter is Melo..no one is averaging more than 25 minutes a game but melo...where the fck have you ever seen that on a team striving to make the playoffs..I didn't see the Game against Utah tonight, but i did see the high light to burkes shot, where JR backed off the shot as if he was preparing for a layup with 1 second left..Really
The rotation is a laughing stock,(10x worse then wooodson) i never saw phil playing 12/13/14 guys, talking about i'm trying to figure it out 3 wks in...
WOW..wow wow..Im ready to give up on this franchise and this forum..This is some real bull shit. I'm not venting, I just know bull sht when I see it..
Occams Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
This roster is just not very good. That explanation makes more sense than an organized team wide tank. Think about it: Which player besides Melo starts on a contending team? Which player even makes the rotation?
I don't care if we had 20 back up players,pick 9 or 10 and go with it. You never ever ever keep doing the same thing and expect different results.
I think the knicks counted 30 points from bargs and calderon and they have not been available. Those are two good offensive players and we've been poor on that side of the court
BRIGGS wrote:I think the knicks counted 30 points from bargs and calderon and they have not been available. Those are two good offensive players and we've been poor on that side of the court
Agree. I think the loss of Calderon has been crippling. I don't think Larkin is a rotation player at this point in his career and he is starting for the Knicks. Also, I think Jason Smith become a lot more valuable once the Knicks have Calderon.
Just looked at the box score. Larkin played 38 minutes last night. I don't think he is that good. Not sure why he is getting all the court time.
CrushAlot wrote:Just looked at the box score. Larkin played 38 minutes last night. I don't think he is that good. Not sure why he is getting all the court time.
at least we will get a top pick. Thank god bargs and amares terrible contracts will be off the books after this year ends
BRIGGS wrote:I think the knicks counted 30 points from bargs and calderon and they have not been available. Those are two good offensive players and we've been poor on that side of the court
If you're counting on Bargs as one of your saviours, you're already lost. The guy doesn't deserve playing time. He is a minus.
Panos wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I think the knicks counted 30 points from bargs and calderon and they have not been available. Those are two good offensive players and we've been poor on that side of the court
If you're counting on Bargs as one of your saviours, you're already lost. The guy doesn't deserve playing time. He is a minus.
Totally agree. Even years ago when he was putting up around 20 ppg he was getting those points on way too many shots (he's a chucker especially from 3) and he is a HYUGE minus on D. Oh, and he's a 7 foot power forward/center who cannot be arsed to grab more than 5 rebounds a game. Blech. Bargs sucks and won't make this team any better. Not to mention dude last couple years looks like he's lost all passion for the game.
I weep blood eveytime I remember we gave up multiple (MULTIPLE!!!) picks for this guy, including a #1 which peeps said was ok since it was Denvers pick. Now that Denver sucks that pick might not be so bad after all, huh. I'm sure Masai will pluck a nice player and laugh at us. Excuse me I've got to go vomit.
TripleThreat wrote:VCoug wrote:We're definitely not tanking, on purpose; the Tyson-Calderon trade makes 0 sense if we were planning to tank this year.
IIRC, Zack Lowe has gone on record a couple of times in the offseason and early this season saying Chandler and Melo had serious personal issues that couldn't be resolved and that created a rift where the Knicks had to move Chandler off the roster (not like they were going to jettison Melo)
Honestly the Chandler trade just appears to be a bad trade in general IMHO.
As for a long rotation, what choice does Fisher have? He has a glut of PF/C's who can't stay healthy and all create negative trade offs in matchups. It's an incomplete poor fitting roster that is short on talent and heavy on age and injury, a long rotation is really a patchwork job. Can't blame Fisher too much for that.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have traded Tyson, Hell I've been making fake trades including him for a few years now. I'm just saying the trade we did make is a win-now kind of trade.
