when he gets back and we are 5-15?
I don't think he's paid to talk the truth.
Were 3-8 in the eastern conference. We havent even faced the hard part of the schedule
I don't think he has to answer to anything. The plan is in place let's see it through. He may have to do a spin for the fans that just want empty wins.
People new it was a rebuilding project and this year would be tough. Some hoped we'd make the playoffs this year. At the end of the day Knick fans blast Dolan for quick fixes and not being patient, but they go into panic mode at the drop of a hat.
We're okay- we stink this year, we might get a top pick. We have cap space for the offseason. It's a process- it's going to take a few years, but watch the recriminations fly when magic doesn't happen in one offseason.
Vmart wrote:I don't think he has to answer to anything. The plan is in place let's see it through. He may have to do a spin for the fans that just want empty wins.
You're right. I do think Phil J was trying to win but he had a built in secondary choice that is actually much better. I wonder what we do at DEc 15 + to deadline
smackeddog wrote:People new it was a rebuilding project and this year would be tough. Some hoped we'd make the playoffs this year. At the end of the day Knick fans blast Dolan for quick fixes and not being patient, but they go into panic mode at the drop of a hat. We're okay- we stink this year, we might get a top pick. We have cap space for the offseason. It's a process- it's going to take a few years, but watch the recriminations fly when magic doesn't happen in one offseason.
I still dont think Dolan is down with any type of rebuild
I'm a little surprised we've been as bad as we have been.
But then, maybe I shouldn't be- this is a lot of what we saw last year.
BRIGGS wrote:Vmart wrote:I don't think he has to answer to anything. The plan is in place let's see it through. He may have to do a spin for the fans that just want empty wins.
You're right. I do think Phil J was trying to win but he had a built in secondary choice that is actually much better. I wonder what we do at DEc 15 + to deadline
Move JR!
I expect Shump and Tim Jr to go at the deadline.
Hmm- would you consider trading Shump and JR for lance Stephenson?
BRIGGS wrote:smackeddog wrote:People new it was a rebuilding project and this year would be tough. Some hoped we'd make the playoffs this year. At the end of the day Knick fans blast Dolan for quick fixes and not being patient, but they go into panic mode at the drop of a hat. We're okay- we stink this year, we might get a top pick. We have cap space for the offseason. It's a process- it's going to take a few years, but watch the recriminations fly when magic doesn't happen in one offseason.
I still dont think Dolan is down with any type of rebuild
He learned his lesson how many futile years has he experienced since taking over. All these other GMs were yes men they only heard get to the playoffs and did everything possible to achieve it with faulty roster at the expense of draft picks. Basically chasing the quick fix. Phil took this job to give credibility to a rebuild. His presence helps appease the fan base that just want wins, they don't know the roster isn't good enough to make the playoffs let alone win a chip.
franco12 wrote:I'm a little surprised we've been as bad as we have been.But then, maybe I shouldn't be- this is a lot of what we saw last year.
I was initially surprised as well. However, around the 5th game, I noticed that they were possibly tanking. At that point, I took a closer look at the roster and the way the games were being managed. I realized this was a full tank job and all their talk prior to the year was smoke and mirrors. I mean take the Hou game for example, JR is an idiot but he is the best we have and only guy who can create his own shot with Melo out. Yet him and THJ rode pine when the Knicks needed a basket bad and fhe game was there for the tanking in the fourth. They held Melo out similarly in the Orlando game. The tank is on!!
This is what they should have done the year we got Melo. Rather than wasting the amnesty and signing Tyson. We should be able to fill in the pieces correctly now.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:franco12 wrote:I'm a little surprised we've been as bad as we have been.But then, maybe I shouldn't be- this is a lot of what we saw last year.
I was initially surprised as well. However, around the 5th game, I noticed that they were possibly tanking. At that point, I took a closer look at the roster and the way the games were being managed. I realized this was a full tank job and all their talk prior to the year was smoke and mirrors. I mean take the Hou game for example, JR is an idiot but he is the best we have and only guy who can create his own shot with Melo out. Yet him and THJ rode pine when the Knicks needed a basket bad and fhe game was there for the tanking in the fourth. They held Melo out similarly in the Orlando game. The tank is on!!
This is what they should have done the year we got Melo. Rather than wasting the amnesty and signing Tyson. We should be able to fill in the pieces correctly now.
you have a vivid imagination.
I've been telling y'all this was a tank job and its cool.
Melo is the star attraction to sell tickets and if he is down with the triangle he can prolong his career and perhaps be a part of the winning.
If not, we can trade him.
He was suprised at the first few games we won, and I doubt he is suprised by the growing pains.
Im not.
Im guessing PHil as part of the negotiations last year was telling Dolan this has to happen. No way this team can move ahead doing the type of patchwork of the past.
I have no problem with phil. The realistic fans knew this would be a rough year and we could use a top draft choice for a change. The good news is that the awful bargs and stat contracts end soon
A healthy Stat (a term not taken for granted) can help a contending team perhaps even over the top.
Im impressed with his resurgence in a contract year.
smackeddog wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Vmart wrote:I don't think he has to answer to anything. The plan is in place let's see it through. He may have to do a spin for the fans that just want empty wins.
You're right. I do think Phil J was trying to win but he had a built in secondary choice that is actually much better. I wonder what we do at DEc 15 + to deadline
Move JR!
I expect Shump and Tim Jr to go at the deadline.
Hmm- would you consider trading Shump and JR for lance Stephenson?
Definitely. I know Lance Stephenson has personality quirks, but he's not reckless like JR. And he brings some serious mojo that both Shump and JR lack. I like him a lot.
Hate to lose Shump, but unless he is consistent, I'm not ready to extend him for what he'll seek. And JR is a knucklehead, so the sooner he's gone the better, no matter how many unbelievable shots he hits. Those are shots he shouldn't be taking and he will never be a good triangle role player.
Who says Lance is even availble?
JR is garbage and Shump is a free agent. CHarlotte is not "dumping" Lance.
Hornets have spacing problems because their outside shooting is not opening up the lanes for Lance to penetrate.
Think they are sitting around and thinking "Hey, Shump and JR will solve our woes!!!"
Long term, Lance and Melo?
YOu trying to fix this season?
This year is a full rebuild... sign Phil though and the seats will stay full
A high draft pick and cap space is what we have to look forward to
Nalod wrote:Who says Lance is even availble?
JR is garbage and Shump is a free agent. CHarlotte is not "dumping" Lance.Hornets have spacing problems because their outside shooting is not opening up the lanes for Lance to penetrate.
Think they are sitting around and thinking "Hey, Shump and JR will solve our woes!!!"
Long term, Lance and Melo?
YOu trying to fix this season?
Lance and the Hornets coach aren't getting on, Lance is struggling, team chemistry is poor- usually Lance gets the blame for that (no idea whether its true or not), I can see the Hornets offloading him. They need shooting and scoring (JR) and their coach likes defensive minded players (Shump). No idea if it's a possibility, and I'm undecided if I'd do it anyways, but the idea intrigues me...
If Phil actually wore a hat...
dk7th wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:franco12 wrote:I'm a little surprised we've been as bad as we have been.But then, maybe I shouldn't be- this is a lot of what we saw last year.
I was initially surprised as well. However, around the 5th game, I noticed that they were possibly tanking. At that point, I took a closer look at the roster and the way the games were being managed. I realized this was a full tank job and all their talk prior to the year was smoke and mirrors. I mean take the Hou game for example, JR is an idiot but he is the best we have and only guy who can create his own shot with Melo out. Yet him and THJ rode pine when the Knicks needed a basket bad and fhe game was there for the tanking in the fourth. They held Melo out similarly in the Orlando game. The tank is on!!
This is what they should have done the year we got Melo. Rather than wasting the amnesty and signing Tyson. We should be able to fill in the pieces correctly now.
you have a vivid imagination.
Which part? Being convinced they are trying to tank, but putting on a dog and pony show in the offseason to try and sell tickets, or filling in the roster in a logical manner?
TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:I don't think he has to answer to anything. The plan is in place let's see it through. He may have to do a spin for the fans that just want empty wins.
What plan? Other than a soft cushy big paycheck semi retirement gig?
For the next three years, this will be a treadmill team. Never bad enough to get a top lottery pick to truly help the roster. Never good enough to contend. Always on the fringe of that last playoff spot in a weaker Eastern conference.
What "plan"? NBA teams only have one of a very very very small number of options, and the WORST, the absolute WORST is to be stuck in the middle, on the leagues "treadmill"
Zen Master is imposing a complex offense on a low BB IQ gunner who doesn't care about defense, on a team almost completely flushed of any other viable assets.
The Knicks need to pick a DIRECTION. If you are going to rebuild, then truly REBUILD. Swallow those growing pains and tough years and do it right now. What you don't do is put frosting on a fringe 8th seed team, take 60 million and pretend you've got cake.
This team doesn't need Phil Jackson, it needs a GM who will potentially be here in 10 years. Or more if needed and successful. It needs a GM with no legacy to protect and can instead eat a full rebuild because it's what's right for the entire franchise.
The plan is all about tanking this season. Have cap room going into the next season. About developing the youth. Learning the system.
I don't know how you are reading my post. Phil picked a direction this team is heading towards. I think it has nothing to do with fighting for a playoff spot this team is gearing for a top lottery pick. Which I'm fine with.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:dk7th wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:franco12 wrote:I'm a little surprised we've been as bad as we have been.But then, maybe I shouldn't be- this is a lot of what we saw last year.
I was initially surprised as well. However, around the 5th game, I noticed that they were possibly tanking. At that point, I took a closer look at the roster and the way the games were being managed. I realized this was a full tank job and all their talk prior to the year was smoke and mirrors. I mean take the Hou game for example, JR is an idiot but he is the best we have and only guy who can create his own shot with Melo out. Yet him and THJ rode pine when the Knicks needed a basket bad and fhe game was there for the tanking in the fourth. They held Melo out similarly in the Orlando game. The tank is on!!
This is what they should have done the year we got Melo. Rather than wasting the amnesty and signing Tyson. We should be able to fill in the pieces correctly now.
you have a vivid imagination.
Which part? Being convinced they are trying to tank, but putting on a dog and pony show in the offseason to try and sell tickets, or filling in the roster in a logical manner?
there's a rookie coach out there. the way he's juggling lineups tells me he is still searching for a rotation that will best execute the offense he is instituting. i did not see the game last night but it seems that melo's injury is a blessing because i have heard there was some semblance of the triangle, even if stoudemire an jr smith interfere with that happening. some have suggested that the rookie coach needs to showcase stoudemire and smith for a midseason trade... and that is as close as it gets to a tank job, ie having to play dead weight players as a necessary evil.
if that is the case, then no matter what, we should see a different sort of team and/or approach after december 15th... agreed?
