Knicks · Starphuch Fear (page 1)

When Isiah took over from Layden MID SEASON it was fear of a dying Garden that spooked Dolan into making a MID SEASON change.
Layden was not making any panic moves which meant keeping picks and letting contracts expire. When an opportunity comes you have assets to make a change.

Isiah was not scared of Dolan and set about an aggressive rebuild.
Walsh was not scared of Dolan but Jimmy cut him at the knees and walked over him to get Melo. Jimmy was scared of Melo in BKN!
Grunwald was here because Jimmy kept him and did not want to hire Chris Mullins as Walsh wanted to succeed him. Instead Jimmy bought in a Mills and canned Grunwald.

Phil is not scared of Dolan and would have had to agree that a tank is necessary for many reasons. Any moves to improve this season would be a sign of weakness.
Dolan has operated out of fear. Looking for short term fixes primarily. Dolan will spend but the new CBA is a bit different than overspending in the past. This can mess you up.

Despite it all the valuation on the knicks has soared over the years and Jimmy has won on that front. What he has not succeeded in doing is winning on the court.
I support any LONG TERM moves that create a winning culture and a stable talent infusion. If it means losing every game this year so be it.

Lose the battle to win the war.

Ignorance breeds fear!

Thats been the knicks problem for 15 years. They try for a quick fix and actually cause more damage. We grossly overpay for flawed players and bad contracts

You'd be able to make a better case for Layden if he didn't overpay for ShandonEiselySpoon. His Utah buddies. Right off the bat Layden proved his lack of eye for talent. I think he also drafted Sweetney over Amare.

But yea hopefully dolan stays out of it

gunsnewing wrote:You'd be able to make a better case for Layden if he didn't overpay for ShandonEiselySpoon. His Utah buddies. Right off the bat Layden proved his lack of eye for talent. I think he also drafted Sweetney over Amare.

But he's holefully dolan stays out of it

Jeeze, Lets not go all the back on the time line. Layden was fired mid season and thats very telling of a panic. It was freaking december!!!! He was against the Marbury trade. The team was boring with high character guys and expiring contracts. What ever the plan was to bring in Dice (a star) did not work. It was very Dolan like to want a star to market around. We don't know if Dolan buldozed Layden into that move as well. The plan on paper was not really that bad at the time. Not sure Layden was all behind it but he was the GM. I have stated many times that GM's don't make max contract deals by themselves and dolan has shown to be involved in many decisions. Owners are very involved.
Were were phucked and even JVG walked away!!!!
Chaney was doing fine with what he had. Isiah fired him without a hire in place. Isiah wanted Fratello and could not come to terms on money. Smart move on his part, as we all know working for Dolan and Isiah is not a stable job. Fratello's agent recommended Wilkens after he embarassed Isiah. Smooth!!!! Fear was the motivation. Ignorance breeds fear. Fear creates panic. Panic is a bad place to make business decisions.

Dolan was scared of fans booing and when Magic Johnson recommened his "friend" isiah, Zeke slithered in and had a ton of power.

2002 Draft was the one we traded for Dice:

Yao Ming*
Jay Williams
Mike Dunleavy, Jr.
Drew Gooden
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Dajuan Wagner
Nenê Hilario
Chris Wilcox
Amar'e Stoudemire*

Think every team wants a do over on that one??? Denver passed on Amare twice!!!!

every draft has "regrets" in hindsight. Nothing easier than "should have taken........."
Sweetney was a polished player in the fat boy era in the NBA. Look at who was taken after him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_dr...

There was not much left if you really look at the players left. Of course he could have done better. Most teams after the 5th picks would love to have the benefit of hindsight.

BTW, your gonna hate on Layden thats OK but he did not pick Sweetney over Amare. Now your just being silly! Different year.
Layden was fired in DECEMBER, Isiah bought in and within days took the trade the suns were proposing and bought in Marbury. If that does not smell of fear or panic then I can't help you.
I used to go by "Nedyal" because I thought Layden had it all backwards. I was wrong, so I changed it to NALOD because I learned GM's only have so much power because Owners set the agenda. If Phil succeeds its because he decided to hire PHil and bud out of the process he fails at some miserably.

BLAME the decision making process as the true failure of this franchise. The process that has made some incredibly bad decisions. Blame Layden? Ok, replace with Isiah? Then find the franchise in even worse shape so a good hire is made to bring in Walsh, who hires MDA with the thought of rebuilding to a runnig team. You think in retrospect Walsh, who has been proven to not have the full confidence of Dolan had the power to sign Amare to that deal while the whole world knew he'd maybe give us 3 good years? Walsh given the green light to spend $100 mil? We all know Lebron thought Dolan was a joke and we all know he was right. Fast foward to Dolan wanting Melo in NYC and not BKN and told Walsh to leave.

If Dolan leaves phil alone we'll be ok. No guarantee we will win a chip but we should be better long term. IF he losed confidence in the plan then we go back to fear based decisions.
UK fans calling for wholesale change after 20 games are short sighted. With our situation and roster its short sighted to even do it after 82 games. Why? We are making big changes.

1. Dolan decides to delegate to a man with 13 rings, is insightful and intellegent!
2. That man looks to hire a young coach without any experience and mold him. Surround him with Triangle experts. That man is young, energetic and played in the system and also won.
Like phil he knows what its like to play, and win!!!!
3. Melo: The debate is would we been better off letting him walk or allow a sign and trade. If he wanted in Chicago, what do we get in return? Melo was never taking a paycut like $45mil.
We either told them "No" or Melo really wants to be here. If we think Melo is a disaster after 20 games and will never ever fit in I think thats a bit premature.

Forget the knicks, anyone wonder why Amare fell to 10th pick in 2002?

StarksEwing1 wrote:Thats been the knicks problem for 15 years. They try for a quick fix and actually cause more damage. We grossly overpay for flawed players and bad contracts

They have not had a vision for success the last 20 years. The cap space has been so bad due to their propancity to shell out money to one trick ponies that CAN't fit in A team environment, it sets them back for decades. Now, can Phil find a way to turn this thing around? We will see. I certainly am not a fan of Fisher as his coach, because the dude does not have coaching experience, but who knows, it might work.

Knicks1969 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Thats been the knicks problem for 15 years. They try for a quick fix and actually cause more damage. We grossly overpay for flawed players and bad contracts

They have not had a vision for success the last 20 years. The cap space has been so bad due to their propancity to shell out money to one trick ponies that CAN't fit in A team environment, it sets them back for decades. Now, can Phil find a way to turn this thing around? We will see. I certainly am not a fan of Fisher as his coach, because the dude does not have coaching experience, but who knows, it might work.

At what point to you make your determination? 10 games in? 15? 20? 41?

dolan will stick with his guy for a while. but if a smooth talking hustler gets in his ear then your time is up.

How do you stick up for Layden, who essentially traded Spree for Tim Thomas who we ended up getting back for nothing?
And please spare me how great KVH was here. Layden was a Utah goober and had no business running an NYC franchise.

Boo! Nalod! SuperUltimateStarphuchDurant's on his way here. If for no other reason than to get away from Westkook. Phil will make it happen, no matter who we draft.
And if that happens, and Cleveland is still trying to come up with game count totals until they "figure it out", Love may keep thinking about how much he loves spending time and playing in NYC. Screw Marc Gasol!<--not sure he'd want to leave Memphis anyway, although that division is scary tough as hell.

“It is always something fun to think about,” Love said when asked about if he and Anthony had ever discussed the possibility of teaming up. “New York is one of my favorite places in the world, I spend a lot of time in New York.

“And going to play [there] whether it is the Barclays Center or even more so Madison Square Garden, I said it last year, it is the mecca of basketball. Everybody loves to play there. So it is always something fun to think [about].”

Nalod wrote:When Isiah took over from Layden MID SEASON it was fear of a dying Garden that spooked Dolan into making a MID SEASON change.
Layden was not making any panic moves which meant keeping picks and letting contracts expire. When an opportunity comes you have assets to make a change.

Isiah was not scared of Dolan and set about an aggressive rebuild.
Walsh was not scared of Dolan but Jimmy cut him at the knees and walked over him to get Melo. Jimmy was scared of Melo in BKN!
Grunwald was here because Jimmy kept him and did not want to hire Chris Mullins as Walsh wanted to succeed him. Instead Jimmy bought in a Mills and canned Grunwald.

Phil is not scared of Dolan and would have had to agree that a tank is necessary for many reasons. Any moves to improve this season would be a sign of weakness.
Dolan has operated out of fear. Looking for short term fixes primarily. Dolan will spend but the new CBA is a bit different than overspending in the past. This can mess you up.

Despite it all the valuation on the knicks has soared over the years and Jimmy has won on that front. What he has not succeeded in doing is winning on the court.
I support any LONG TERM moves that create a winning culture and a stable talent infusion. If it means losing every game this year so be it.

Lose the battle to win the war.

Ignorance breeds fear!

agree....