Knicks · Phil get us these two players sans the lottery pick and you are the executive of the year. (page 1)

We can use the 2017 1st rounder 3mm in cash cap space and even Tim Hardaway if needed. Just completely revamp our backcourt for the next decade with two 6-5 PG's

Grant is impressive. Complete package. Smooth & Athletic like Kobe, Jordan, Wade. Sweet jumper as well

gunsnewing wrote:Grant is impressive. Complete package. Smooth & Athletic like Kobe, Jordan, Wade. Sweet jumper as well

How about this offseason

Greg Monroe Max contract 4 years 64mm
Jahill Okafor Pick # 1
Jerian Grant Pick 24 acquired for the rights to Tim Hardaway Jr and 500k in cash
Delon Wright Pick 18 acquired for 2017 #1 pick restricted to 3 and 1.5 mm in cash
Zach Auguste Pick 37 acquired for 1mm in cash
Marco Bellineli 2 years with team option on 2 8mm
Resign Amare Stoudemire 2 years with team option on 2 8mm
Resign Cole Aldrich 3 years 4.5mm

to go with

Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon
Quincy Acy
Travis Wear
Cleanthony early
JR Smith

Potential line up

C Greg Monroe
PF Jahill Okafor
F Carmelo Anthony
G Marco Belinelli
G Jerian Grant

PF Amare Studemire
F Zach Auguste
F Quincy Acy
g Jose Calderon
G Delon Wright

Cole Aldrich
Cle Early
JR Smith
Travis Wear
Prigs

Following year you have the ability to still get a premium FA by utilizing team options.

I wanted to sign Belinelli for a lot less but we re-signed bonehead JR for $6mil per

I see Grant's game translating in the nba. Wright im not sure

Grant I think is more of an asset as a playmaking 2, rather than a 1, where he'll struggle to guard somewhat. To me, potential limited by being in between positions without an outstanding skill set. Heady player. I'd take him 20-30.

codeunknown wrote:Grant I think is more of an asset as a playmaking 2, rather than a 1, where he'll struggle to guard somewhat. To me, potential limited by being in between positions without an outstanding skill set. Heady player. I'd take him 20-30.

Yeah, I think Grant is second rounder. I think he can be a Brian Shaw type, but I could also see him struggling like Marcy Collins. He's good athlete, but he's overwhelmingly explosive like Wiggins, or even Shump.

Does Monroe make sense next to OK4? The lack of defensive ability with that lineup worries me, as does them getting in each other's way on offense.

BigDaddyG wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Grant I think is more of an asset as a playmaking 2, rather than a 1, where he'll struggle to guard somewhat. To me, potential limited by being in between positions without an outstanding skill set. Heady player. I'd take him 20-30.

Yeah, I think Grant is second rounder. I think he can be a Brian Shaw type, but I could also see him struggling like Marcy Collins. He's good athlete, but he's overwhelmingly explosive like Wiggins, or even Shump.

Grant is going to go round 1. Both of these guards lead in PER by a long range in CBB and I dont see a reversal coming anytime soon. Delon Wright to me is the best defensive guard in CBB and a version of Rajon Rondo--but with a higher ceiling as he is 6-5 and has a nice stroke. Jerian is the kind of guy you dont jump out of your seat and say that guy can jump--but he's nearly 6-5 and makes all of the basketball plays you need and hes a high quality 3 pt shooter. In the triangle--the PG does not have to be pure but both of these guys slant more to 1 than 2 as playmakers. Their collective basketball IQ is off the charts(something we have not looked at in the past) and each puts up big numbers with high level efficiency i.e FG% assist to TO ratio. These guys jump off the analytical charts. These are both big winners 4 year degrees leading winning teams great size for position athletic have pedigree long armed good defenders rebounders ballhandlers. These guys are players and together could be a tandem that leads teams to championships.

smackeddog wrote:Does Monroe make sense next to OK4? The lack of defensive ability with that lineup worries me, as does them getting in each other's way on offense.

Ive tried to watch Monroe more than any other non Knick this year. This is what I have noticed. Hes a really good player playing on a team that has too many bigs. IF Monroe was able to play in a higher tempo offense where he could also use his advanced passing skills--hed be right back to the 18/20-10-4 player he can be. Hes also less of a concern in terms of injury which to me counts at that price range. I wouldnt be overly concerned in this scenario about a pure shotblocking 5 when we have two long big athletes at 4-5.

The whole thing i was trying to show was just how much we "can"change if we
A. put ourselves into position to have some luck in the draft

B. To identify 2-3 players we can have for years at cost-controlled salaries--but with substantial upsides who will increase our backcourt IQ and all around play. Guys with size skills and IQ

C. Get the best bang for our buck in FA yet keep flexibility for 2016 by signing two contracts that have team options. In terms of Monroe--I think he still has high upside. We could over pay for Robin Lopez but I dont want to really do that--overpaying Lopez goes into the 13-14mm range just under max--and thats too much--but still a viable option. Were going to have to overpay anyone--so overpay bigs and look at opportunity in the guard dept.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Does Monroe make sense next to OK4? The lack of defensive ability with that lineup worries me, as does them getting in each other's way on offense.

Ive tried to watch Monroe more than any other non Knick this year. This is what I have noticed. Hes a really good player playing on a team that has too many bigs. IF Monroe was able to play in a higher tempo offense where he could also use his advanced passing skills--hed be right back to the 18/20-10-4 player he can be. Hes also less of a concern in terms of injury which to me counts at that price range. I wouldnt be overly concerned in this scenario about a pure shotblocking 5 when we have two long big athletes at 4-5.

I dunno if I like the idea. Kinda depresses me actually. Your ideas don't really make the team better. It's more like setting them up to be good 3 years down the line but that's after a few more trades and additions to the roster. I dunno if I have the stamina to endure 3 more years of terrible basketball

The two guys I would go full out for are Monroe and Rondo. They arent the top of the FA tier but they are attainable and make a ton of sense. Monroe is big and very good. Really a great passing big with a nice scoring arsenal that will get more refined with time. He's very young. Rondo... the moody one. He's a winner. His defense on opposing PGs changes the dynamic of the team. He doesnt need shots. Some say he wouldnt be a good triangle fit which is beyond silly (A PG who lives in the paint cant take advantage of spacing????). Both are probably sub max players but might be enticed to take something close to less.

So for me its easy. JR must go, and I will gladly include THjr to a team (Philly?) willing to take JR's extra year. That would let me offer close to max money for Rondo and Monroe (say 4 years $70mm starts at $15mm ends at $20). YES I KNOW THAT IS OVERPAYING but they are both excellent players who fill critcal needs.

Assume we get lucky in the draft with Towns or OK4

Hopefully we can add a nice cheap vet like we did with Kidd a few years ago. Ill stick with Brigg's Amare example of 2 years $10mm

Then your core is:
Guards: Rondo/Calderon
Bigs: Melo/Monroe/OK4
Bench: Amare/Early/Weir/PRigs/Acy

Then the focus is to look to build from within. Find some worthy projects and invest some time. Look overseas. Adding a guy like Mosgov to that squad would be great. Undrafted Euro guys.. point is Knicks will need to be creative to add talent but just look at OKC/SAS etc... it can be done.

Thats a mostly scoring team but it plays to guys strengths. MElo doesnt get to hold the ball anymore with Rondo running the offense so he can flesh out his game. Calderon is a shooter. Monroe and OK4 can P&R with Calderon or space the post with MElo on the wing (Standing in a corner) and a guy like Amare would be a beast for 20 minutes a game off the bench.

That would be my one year plan. There are higher upside plans and players for sure, but I think this is something we could execute on

fishmike wrote:The two guys I would go full out for are Monroe and Rondo.

Then your core is:
Guards: Rondo/Calderon
Bigs: Melo/Monroe/OK4
Bench: Amare/Early/Weir/PRigs/Acy

As much as Triple Threat has posted in detail in regards[even myself to a small degree]

To cap approaches why do I continue seeing posts like this

Let's go best case we let Shump, Aldrich, Dalembert, Bargs, Smith, Larkin walk for nothing and buyout Prigoni

We trade Smith and THJR to Philly[didn't post for what though]

We keep Melo, Calderon, Acy, Early, Wear that's $34mil in cap space right there

Let's keep the pipe dream going and say we land #1 pick[doesn't matter who it is]

$34mil Cap + draft pick[120% cap hit comes to] $4,735,000 * 120%=$5,703,600[this is at the current #1 pick pay scale, could change]

$34mil + $5.7mil=roughly $40mil

Let's place the cap @ $66mil, $66mil-$40mil=$26mil left of cap space

[keep in mind I haven't factored the empty roster spot cap hits at near half a mil per slot]

If you give Monroe 4yrs $70mil it's roughly a 1st yr starting salary at $16.5mil, $26mil-$16mil=$10mil cap space

So we have $10mil of cap to divide across Rondo and Amar'e[why in the h.e. double hockey sticks does anyone want this guy back]

Really we have less than this to spend, it's closer to $9-8mil

Those wouldn't be the players I'd pursue and we have pretty much no shot at Rondo anyway

We need to overpay for someone like Brandon Knight, or maybe Reggie Jackson or Dragic[not enamored with him but this is our lane]

If we have room for someone like Milsap, may have to look there next or sign someone like Amir Johnson

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Does Monroe make sense next to OK4? The lack of defensive ability with that lineup worries me, as does them getting in each other's way on offense.

Ive tried to watch Monroe more than any other non Knick this year. This is what I have noticed. Hes a really good player playing on a team that has too many bigs. IF Monroe was able to play in a higher tempo offense where he could also use his advanced passing skills--hed be right back to the 18/20-10-4 player he can be. Hes also less of a concern in terms of injury which to me counts at that price range. I wouldnt be overly concerned in this scenario about a pure shotblocking 5 when we have two long big athletes at 4-5.

Monroe is absolutely a guy we need to go all in for. Do it all center who is young enough to get better and has been durable in his career thus far. We need to offer him the max. If we can't get him, Tabias Harris should be the next target. But i think Phil should be able to convince Monroe this is the place for him.

Oh and just in case we were wondering

Greg Monroe is represented by David Falk

Good luck thinking we're going to get a great deal completed with Greggy

F500ONE wrote:Oh and just in case we were wondering

Greg Monroe is represented by David Falk

Good luck thinking we're going to get a great deal completed with Greggy

I think he is going to get the max regardless.

Knixkik wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Oh and just in case we were wondering

Greg Monroe is represented by David Falk

Good luck thinking we're going to get a great deal completed with Greggy

I think he is going to get the max regardless.

That's not the tone from the league at the moment

But surely Falk will ask for nothing less as long as he can until a retarded team cracks under pressure

fishmike wrote:The two guys I would go full out for are Monroe and Rondo. They arent the top of the FA tier but they are attainable and make a ton of sense. Monroe is big and very good. Really a great passing big with a nice scoring arsenal that will get more refined with time. He's very young. Rondo... the moody one. He's a winner. His defense on opposing PGs changes the dynamic of the team. He doesnt need shots. Some say he wouldnt be a good triangle fit which is beyond silly (A PG who lives in the paint cant take advantage of spacing????). Both are probably sub max players but might be enticed to take something close to less.

So for me its easy. JR must go, and I will gladly include THjr to a team (Philly?) willing to take JR's extra year. That would let me offer close to max money for Rondo and Monroe (say 4 years $70mm starts at $15mm ends at $20). YES I KNOW THAT IS OVERPAYING but they are both excellent players who fill critcal needs.

Assume we get lucky in the draft with Towns or OK4

Hopefully we can add a nice cheap vet like we did with Kidd a few years ago. Ill stick with Brigg's Amare example of 2 years $10mm

Then your core is:
Guards: Rondo/Calderon
Bigs: Melo/Monroe/OK4
Bench: Amare/Early/Weir/PRigs/Acy

Then the focus is to look to build from within. Find some worthy projects and invest some time. Look overseas. Adding a guy like Mosgov to that squad would be great. Undrafted Euro guys.. point is Knicks will need to be creative to add talent but just look at OKC/SAS etc... it can be done.

Thats a mostly scoring team but it plays to guys strengths. MElo doesnt get to hold the ball anymore with Rondo running the offense so he can flesh out his game. Calderon is a shooter. Monroe and OK4 can P&R with Calderon or space the post with MElo on the wing (Standing in a corner) and a guy like Amare would be a beast for 20 minutes a game off the bench.

That would be my one year plan. There are higher upside plans and players for sure, but I think this is something we could execute on

All of you made a lot of sense; except for when you proposed to resign Amare. That dud has got to go. He is a black hole on offense, and a terrible defender. I simply can't fathom another 4 years of Amare with the Knicks.

fishmike wrote:The two guys I would go full out for are Monroe and Rondo. They arent the top of the FA tier but they are attainable and make a ton of sense. Monroe is big and very good. Really a great passing big with a nice scoring arsenal that will get more refined with time. He's very young. Rondo... the moody one. He's a winner. His defense on opposing PGs changes the dynamic of the team. He doesnt need shots. Some say he wouldnt be a good triangle fit which is beyond silly (A PG who lives in the paint cant take advantage of spacing????). Both are probably sub max players but might be enticed to take something close to less.

So for me its easy. JR must go, and I will gladly include THjr to a team (Philly?) willing to take JR's extra year. That would let me offer close to max money for Rondo and Monroe (say 4 years $70mm starts at $15mm ends at $20). YES I KNOW THAT IS OVERPAYING but they are both excellent players who fill critcal needs.

Assume we get lucky in the draft with Towns or OK4

Hopefully we can add a nice cheap vet like we did with Kidd a few years ago. Ill stick with Brigg's Amare example of 2 years $10mm

Then your core is:
Guards: Rondo/Calderon
Bigs: Melo/Monroe/OK4
Bench: Amare/Early/Weir/PRigs/Acy

Then the focus is to look to build from within. Find some worthy projects and invest some time. Look overseas. Adding a guy like Mosgov to that squad would be great. Undrafted Euro guys.. point is Knicks will need to be creative to add talent but just look at OKC/SAS etc... it can be done.

Thats a mostly scoring team but it plays to guys strengths. MElo doesnt get to hold the ball anymore with Rondo running the offense so he can flesh out his game. Calderon is a shooter. Monroe and OK4 can P&R with Calderon or space the post with MElo on the wing (Standing in a corner) and a guy like Amare would be a beast for 20 minutes a game off the bench.

That would be my one year plan. There are higher upside plans and players for sure, but I think this is something we could execute on

fishmike--I think its reasonable to say that we need to build the team with cost controlled players as well. Two max contracts are enough unless the names Durant or James was attached to the third. Even then--IF we were LUCKy enough to get ok4--perhaps Phil decides we just need a cheaper shot blocking C and wants to use the cash on a K Leonard etc... I dont know. I do know we are in good shape if we win the lottery. Adding Monroe and those two young guards--or something like that--we'd have 6 guys under 25 who can stay with the team for 10 years. Thats how you build a tam that can win for a decade.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:The two guys I would go full out for are Monroe and Rondo. They arent the top of the FA tier but they are attainable and make a ton of sense. Monroe is big and very good. Really a great passing big with a nice scoring arsenal that will get more refined with time. He's very young. Rondo... the moody one. He's a winner. His defense on opposing PGs changes the dynamic of the team. He doesnt need shots. Some say he wouldnt be a good triangle fit which is beyond silly (A PG who lives in the paint cant take advantage of spacing????). Both are probably sub max players but might be enticed to take something close to less.

So for me its easy. JR must go, and I will gladly include THjr to a team (Philly?) willing to take JR's extra year. That would let me offer close to max money for Rondo and Monroe (say 4 years $70mm starts at $15mm ends at $20). YES I KNOW THAT IS OVERPAYING but they are both excellent players who fill critcal needs.

Assume we get lucky in the draft with Towns or OK4

Hopefully we can add a nice cheap vet like we did with Kidd a few years ago. Ill stick with Brigg's Amare example of 2 years $10mm

Then your core is:
Guards: Rondo/Calderon
Bigs: Melo/Monroe/OK4
Bench: Amare/Early/Weir/PRigs/Acy

Then the focus is to look to build from within. Find some worthy projects and invest some time. Look overseas. Adding a guy like Mosgov to that squad would be great. Undrafted Euro guys.. point is Knicks will need to be creative to add talent but just look at OKC/SAS etc... it can be done.

Thats a mostly scoring team but it plays to guys strengths. MElo doesnt get to hold the ball anymore with Rondo running the offense so he can flesh out his game. Calderon is a shooter. Monroe and OK4 can P&R with Calderon or space the post with MElo on the wing (Standing in a corner) and a guy like Amare would be a beast for 20 minutes a game off the bench.

That would be my one year plan. There are higher upside plans and players for sure, but I think this is something we could execute on

fishmike--I think its reasonable to say that we need to build the team with cost controlled players as well. Two max contracts are enough unless the names Durant or James was attached to the third. Even then--IF we were LUCKy enough to get ok4--perhaps Phil decides we just need a cheaper shot blocking C and wants to use the cash on a K Leonard etc... I dont know. I do know we are in good shape if we win the lottery. Adding Monroe and those two young guards--or something like that--we'd have 6 guys under 25 who can stay with the team for 10 years. Thats how you build a tam that can win for a decade.

understood, but your going to have to overpay to get guys here, thats just how FA works. Show them the money. To me thats offset by using the draft. Rondo/Melo give you a nice chance to compete now in a weak east. OK4/Monroe are much longer term. What NY needs to do is balance by having a good draft every year. Add a guy who has a chance to make the rotation or skills or size worth developing if hes young. Shump is the longests tenure drafted player. That has to change.