Knicks · Dragic as main free agent works as well (page 4)
BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap.
I've yet to see you post anything remotely realistic clearing said room
Are you keeping or dumping Melo
If you're dumping Melo what's the selling point to coming here
I'm not saying I'm opposed to dumping Melo and suggesting he's a selling point
What's the positive sell with a ghost roster to free agents besides money
Which other teams can match or beat our offers with better rosters
Highest early cap projections are $65-66mil
Work from those figures with realistic and not criminal Briggs world end results
F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap.I've yet to see you post anything remotely realistic clearing said room
Are you keeping or dumping MeloIf you're dumping Melo what's the selling point to coming here
I'm not saying I'm opposed to dumping Melo and suggesting he's a selling pointWhat the positive sell with a ghost roster to free agents besides money
Which other teams can match or beat our offers with better rostersHighest early cap projections are $65-66mil
Work from those figures with realistic and not criminal Briggs world end results
There is no doubt in my mind that IF needed we could get to a place where we could start two contracts at 15 and 17mm(32mm) we can get there. That being said I do not think i would do that---I dont see committing to two huge deals like that unless 1 of them are KD. I want to make sure we have maximum space for KD in 2016.
BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
It would help if Briggs would do 1 of 2 things
Stop spewing fallacies of garbage or once he does
Back it up with some kind of trail of detail
There's no way we can clear $45mil of cap space
And when posting stuff like this it's actually irresponsible
On any posters part to do so because there are some here who don't understand the finer details of CBA
And will believe and repeat it to the masses
Show some sense of responsibility here
Now with all the guaranteed money on the books next year
Even if it can be moved, it will come at cost that Briggs would not be willing to go about
Calderon/Smith alone would require sending a pick or picks out with them
Unless of course pipe dream scenario Smith opts out on his own
Then all we can offer Butler or Dragic are 4yr deals
How does this place us apart from the Bulls and the rest of the field with cap space
BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
Okay with such a dream we wouldn't have $45mil in cap space
You want Amar'e back at $3mil right or are you flip-flopping here?
Melo = $23mil
Jose = $3.5mil(stretch... make it half what's owed)
Pick = $4.7 to $3.7 multiplier by 120% cap hit = $5.6mil to $4.5mil
THJR = $1.3mil
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
I won't even include Pablo and J.R. leaves pipe dream style
8 empty roster spots added to the above
BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
If we end up having to use the stretch provision on Calderon I'm going to be even more pissed off about the Tyson trade; if we're going to do that we could've done the same thing to Felton, which would up open up more cap space than stretching Calderon, and traded Tyson for actual assets. Seriously, I'm going to be pissed.
JR is playing terrible basketball, has really turned into something of a problem for this team, and is still injured. I don't see a team trading for him unless we're giving up something else for their troubles. And I don't see JR opting out.
Shumpert doesn't have an option, he has a qualifying offer. We'd be pretty stupid not to offer it since it lets us control an asset for at least a little while longer instead of giving him away for nothing. Of course, we've been pretty bad at giving away assets for nothing.
And you're still ignoring the cap holds. $500k+ isn't a lot individually but when we're talking about bumping up against the cap having 5 open roster spots and losing $2.5M because of them will hurt.
VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
If we end up having to use the stretch provision on Calderon I'm going to be even more pissed off about the Tyson trade; if we're going to do that we could've done the same thing to Felton, which would up open up more cap space than stretching Calderon, and traded Tyson for actual assets. Seriously, I'm going to be pissed.
JR is playing terrible basketball, has really turned into something of a problem for this team, and is still injured. I don't see a team trading for him unless we're giving up something else for their troubles. And I don't see JR opting out.
Shumpert doesn't have an option, he has a qualifying offer. We'd be pretty stupid not to offer it since it lets us control an asset for at least a little while longer instead of giving him away for nothing. Of course, we've been pretty bad at giving away assets for nothing.
And you're still ignoring the cap holds. $500k+ isn't a lot individually but when we're talking about bumping up against the cap having 5 open roster spots and losing $2.5M because of them will hurt.
Well yeah doing things Briggs suggested would make anyone
A Suns core angry, but I outlined everything going absolute best case
Still no dice
F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
Okay with such a dream we wouldn't have $45mil in cap space
You want Amar'e back at $3mil right or are you flip-flopping here?
Melo = $23mil
Jose = $3.5mil(stretch... make it half what's owed)
Pick = $4.7 to $3.7 multiplier by 120% cap hit = $5.6mil to $4.5mil
THJR = $1.3mil
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500kI won't even include Pablo and J.R. leaves pipe dream style
8 empty roster spots added to the above
Id be very close to the 32mm number right there and thats without the cap moving up. Like I said it would likely be in our best interests to go after 1 premium FA and leave the flexibility to offer KD a maximum contract in 2016.
There are good options at different price points. If Phil uses the Draft for the top tier talent and Free Agency for improving the overall talent level with affordable quality role players it should be a good method for rebuilding this team. There are no guarantees in this business but there are smart moves that can keep a teams options open. We don't have to overpay FA's in order to improve the talent base.
markvmc wrote:It really does matter whether we have 24, 28 or 32 million.
What I mean is that I don't think we'll be spending all of our cap space in one fell swoop. But if JR does opt out then we'd have about $28 mil but it all depends on what Phil plans to do whether it even matters at this point if we have another $4 mil. Signing Dragic wouldn't use up all of our cap and neither would Reggie Jackson or Brandon Knight. We can make an offer and then go with more affordable players after that. There's a way to do this with what we have in cap space.
markvmc wrote:I see what you're saying, but the higher the cap space, the greater the flexibility, whether it's being spent all at once or not.
Oh yeah but I think Phil will retain some flexibility for 2016 just in case. Knicks are gonna be able to be a player this year for some gradual improvements and the following year as well if they play it right.
Regardless I would not spend more than 12m as the starting salary
So sign hungry talents and draft hopefully get some draft picks especially in the 2nd round to continue to build a foundation
I would much rather have 1 player in the 12m range and then sign multiple players in the 3-6m range for solid role players on 2-3year deals with team options such as
Gary Neal
Koufus
Jon Loeur
Wesley Johnson
Ed Davis
likely out of our price range would be
Gereld Green
Danny Green
Wesley Mathewws
Affalo
Wilson Chandler/MosGoV as they have team options and doubt that Denver will not pick their contracts up
Possible dumps to gain assets for our future
If we can turn
Iman Shumpert
Acey
Even Tim Hardaway JR both Cleanthony Early, however, will not part with Greek Freak 2.0 even if he can net us a late 1st rounder and a mid 2nd rounder, as I see a bright future for him to be a piece moving forward
I would want 2 2nd rounders that are early and one middle/late 2nd rounder, so 3 2nd rounders and 2 that would be in this coming draft
veterans
unlikely but JR Smith to a contender for a late 2nd rounder and expiring
Pablo
Dalembert
Jason Smith
virtually anyone on our roster besides Cole Aldrich because we could use his contract to go over the salary cap and get the FULL 5-6m MLE if we want and his cap hold is the vet min
Lets not forget we still have a 3.6m trade exemption to trade for a bad contract to take back some assets if possible with the Tyson Chandler trade, like for Delfino and picks or Middleton
then spend more money on former players that would be player development like Rasheed Wallace/Chauncy Billups/Ron Harper/Shane Battier etc, players that could help develop players that are willing to learn/develop
BRIGGS wrote:It would give us an athletic mobile 20 point PG who penetrates and shoots a high %.We use stretch provision on Calderon which gives us 4.4mm more in spending
We give Dragic 4 years 62mm (15.5per)
and shore up the club based on who we get out of the draft.
If we get Okafor
Spend the rest on Danny Green (4 years 30mm) (Branden Wright 4 years 24.5mm)
That would give us a big three in Melo Dragic Ok4
and efficient role players @ C and SG.
Get aggressive in draft by using Tim Hardaway 3mm in cash and if need be our 2017 pick to retool the entire 2nd half of roster with 2 more bigs and a guard.
The goal would be to retool/rebuild the entire roster in 1 year while leaving about 7-8mm in flexibility open for 2016
I don't mind keeping Calderon rather than stretching him, however, if we do keep him, we would need a combo guard like Lance Stephenson that has the ability to penetrate, defend, facilitate, and grab rebounds
Calderon should be the secondary ball handler and a spot up shooter rather than our #1 facilitator or lead guard
Of course at this point, I would want a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to compensate for taking his contract
Also I am not sure if anyone would give us a 2nd rounder for Amare at this point as his salary is hard to match
Thomas Robinson could be available for a low salary as Portland will likely not match as they have a lot of contracts to choose from this coming summer with
LA
Wesley Mathewws
Lopez
some of their 2 younger Centers in Freeland and Meyers Leanord, in addition to Kaman at a steal for his production as a backup
If we can trade Amare, AB, or whoever, and get back a trade exemption, I am all for it
Also I would not give Brandon Wright a 4 year deal, unless 4th year is team option, but would prefer 2-3 year deals with 3rd year being team options, leaving room for error
I don't see Danny Green being available but I think he would be a great fit if we had some legit post options and play makers, he does a bit of everything and has improved very much on EVERYTHING especially under rated DEFENSE
Look at how Dallas and teams like Houston offer 2year deals with 2nd year being team options and they could be used as pieces to match salaries for dumps
I wonder what Brandon Knight's market value would be but I would guess it would be in the range of 10-12m with the way Kidd and The Bucks are playing
I am not very impressed with the way Reggie Jackson has been playing because he is looking to put up stats to justify his contract rather than trying to get W's on a tough WESTERN CONFERENCE
I think Reggie Jackson is capable of being a starting PG, combo guard, but he is playing way to selfishly, and he is NOT comparable to Eric Bledsoe's contract at all
He would be lucky to get 10-12 per year on a 3year + deal in my opinion, unless he shows he could be a better defensive player and facilitator, and not just a scoring PG
I would much rather have Brandon Knight and combinations of PGs like Bayless/Sessions on much lower and smaller deals, 2 players I thought we should have targetted this past summer with our MINI MLE
Even if we stretch out Calderon, his conotract would be about 3-4m per year for the next 6-8years
We are better off trading CA
Honestly, it would be more finacially responsible to trade CA and get back some value for him, while we use the next 2 years to develop the young players and picks we would recievea and possible young talent that comes with him
Be honest Briggs, in order for us to be contenders and grab the talent needed with CA, it would be at least a 3-4year process, then we have to develop chemistry, and we will wonder what CA will be by then
Sending him to Houston makes the most sense to me, some other teams include
OKC
Suns
Spurs
Bulls and Cleveland could make it work as well but we would be making our contender stronger so I would prefer sending him out West for obvious reasons as we would only meet in the Finals
We all know CA wants his money, nothing is wrong with that, but sending him to a contender and a state with no state tax would make it more likely
We need to get back assets as well, so there are only a couple teams that would make sense for both NYK's and CA since he has a NO TRADE CLAUSE
Houston owns our 2015 and 2016 2nd round picks in addition to many other picks and pieces we could use like D MO, Terrence Jones, Koustos Pap *unguaranteed contract*, Patrick Beverely, Ronnie Brewer, Jason Terry *to make it fit for salary reasons*
2015 first round draft pick from New Orleans
New Orleans' 1st round pick to Houston protected for selections 1-3 and 20-30 in 2015, 1-3 and 20-30 in 2016, 1-3 and 20-30 in 2017, 1-3 and 20-30 in 2018, 1-3 and 25-30 in 2019 and 1-3 and 25-30 in 2020; if New Orleans has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Houston by 2020, then New Orleans will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Houston [Houston-New Orleans-Washington, 7/15/2014]
2015 second round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota will convey the less favorable of its 2015 2nd round pick and Denver's 2015 2nd round pick to Houston (via Portland) [Denver-Minnesota-New York, 2/22/2011; Minnesota-Portland, 6/27/2011; Houston-Portland, 7/10/2013]
2015 second round draft pick from New York
New York's 2015 2nd round pick to Houston [Houston-New York, 7/11/2012]
2016 second round draft pick from New York
New York's 2016 2nd round pick to Houston (via Portland to Sacramento then removal of protection from New York) [New York-Portland, 7/15/2012; New Orleans-Portland-Sacramento, 7/10/2013; New York-Sacramento, 8/6/2014; Houston-Sacramento, 9/17/2014]
2017 second round draft pick from Portland
Portland's 2017 2nd round pick to Houston [Houston-Portland, 7/10/2013]
BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.
I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.
Okay with such a dream we wouldn't have $45mil in cap space
You want Amar'e back at $3mil right or are you flip-flopping here?
Melo = $23mil
Jose = $3.5mil(stretch... make it half what's owed)
Pick = $4.7 to $3.7 multiplier by 120% cap hit = $5.6mil to $4.5mil
THJR = $1.3mil
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500kI won't even include Pablo and J.R. leaves pipe dream style
8 empty roster spots added to the aboveId be very close to the 32mm number right there and thats without the cap moving up. Like I said it would likely be in our best interests to go after 1 premium FA and leave the flexibility to offer KD a maximum contract in 2016.
many teams have at least 2 ALL STAR caliber players
even more teams have 4 VERY GOOD PLAYERS with combined ALL STARS/BORDERLINE ALL STAR's and many more role players
Briggs,
With the philosophy ways you are constructing the team, you are suggesting we can build a contender with 3 ALL STAR's *NONE OF WHICH would have the talents of LA or Marc Gasol, unlikely even a Millsap
Even if we add those type of players, we would still need solid glue players like Danny Green/Gereld Green/Randy Foye/Hickson/WIlson Chandler/DRaymond Green/Livingston and we wouldn't be able to get those servicable glue players
It doesn't help that we have the highest tax rate and most media pressure/scrutiny to go along with the lowest assets/ability to continue to improve with a our lack of success
Jason Terry $5,450,000 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0
Kostas Papanikolaou $4,797,664 $4,851,769 $5,727,211 $0 $0 $0
Corey Brewer $4,702,500 $4,905,000 $0 $0 $0 $0
Alexey Shved $3,198,723 $3,998,408 $0 $0 $0 $0
Terrence Jones $1,618,680 $2,489,529 $3,532,642 $0 $0 $0
Donatas Motiejunas $1,483,920 $2,288,205 $3,278,996 $0 $0 $0
Joey Dorsey $948,163 $1,015,421 $0 $0 $0 $0
Patrick Beverley $915,243 $1,181,348 $0 $0 $0 $0
Isaiah Canaan $816,482 $947,276 $1,215,696 $0 $0 $0
Tarik Black $507,336 $845,049 $1,180,431 $0 $0 $0
Nick Johnson $507,336 $845,059 $980,431 $1,251,245 $0 $0
these are players that could add up to CA's contract and more to go along with the picks they have
IF we can get 2 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, in addition to DMO, Kostas Pap (unguaranteed contract), and a few role players, it really wouldn't be that bad of a trade considering our circumstances
If we can get Terrence Jones and/or Beverely and give them JR Smith and some decent players on a roster like that it could be a win win for both parties
Morey gets his BIG 3/4 and we get back the ability to get young talent, future cap space, and future picks, especially 2 of our 2nd roudners which are ours and likely will be HIGH 2nd rounders and > than a late 1st rounder since they cost much less and are unguaranteed contracts
It was pretty hard to match salaries but with Houston's current trades and pick up for Josh Smith, we actually could pull it a reasonable compensation by this trade deadline
Question is would Morey want to do it and look to rape us on another trade rather than pull of a BIG 3/4 this season
In order words, it would be best if we had at least another contender to drive up CA's value a bit or at least not get lowballed
and
CA's ability to spread the floor, this is probably the closest that CA can play with a team closests to TEAM USA, make the most possible money with no state tax while getting his max contract, and having the defenders to help him
Many combination of shooters and both 1v1 and TEAM DEFENDERS
with
Beverly
Harden *actually advance STAT for defensive player this season, probably because it requires a lot of energy to defend him too*
Ariza
Terrence Jones
Howard
Josh Smith
Brewer
CA could even come off the bench and play a Manu Ginboil and TEAM USA role, with many very good defenders to cover his weakness's and the focus will always be try stopping Harden's ability to finish, leaving WIDE OPEN SHOTS for CA
BRIGGS wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So we're going to use up the majority of our cap space on Melo and Dragic? How are we going to build a roster that competes with teams spending less money on Westbrook + Durant or Love + Lebron? Or even ordinary .500 teams that are getting better use out of their payrolls?
This most likely is going to be a 3 or more year process of rebuilding if we're going to actually build anything meaningful. If Butler doesn't take a max contract offer from us, then I can only hope Dolan will display a level of patience he never has before.It makes no sense to not be aggressive. Bonn you do understand we have a top 3 draft choice right? Were going to get a great cost effective player right away. Whether Stein or Okafor my bet is we get 1 of them---Dragic is probably the best FA we can get. That gives us a foundation up the middle--then we can fit in players---a shooter a couple of young athletic bigs keep Larkin or find another really cheap PG back up. Use the rest of what we have this year on 2 other starters who fit in. What exactly am I waiting for?
If we are aggressive in the draft and smart--we could walk away with 2-3 quality bigs and a guard that will all be cost effective and long term foundation players. This is a combo retool /rebuild. We dont have any draft picks next year--we have zero incentive not to be a s good as possible.
And for all these reasons, it makes Houston a great choice, along with CA going to a contender with a no trade clause
We don't have the ability to build a TEAM around CA to be a contender but he can join an establish team and win, unforuntately it wouldn't work with us with the way our team is constructed
If we can get 3 1st rounders and 4 2nd rounders, two of the 2nd rounders are ours in 2015 and 2016, this is a no brainer
Also we still get back players that we can ship back out in the near future or choose to develop them
In any case, we should concentrate on player development the next 2 years, until 2017 when Durant and the salary cap will rise signifigantly
By then if we can draft and develop well, grab some solid role players and they turn out to be the next Danny Green/Kyle Korver/Trevor Ariza etc, then we have at least a chance to lure talent over
However, NO ONE will come to this team this year without overpaying for their services, certainly no
LA
Gasol
Kevin Love and Lebron if they another injury or poor finish gets them to reconsider if one breaks apart but they still have the ability to improve with draft picks, trades, and trade exemptions
even Millsap
that leaves us with players like
Thad Young
Jeff Green
PG's
Rhondo *unlikely and probably not worth it if we had to pay him max*
Dragic, Knight, Reggie Jackson
Wesley Mathewws
Danny/Gereld Green
Centers
Al Jefferson *don't trust AL at his age and undersized*
Asik
DeANdre Jordan/Tyson Chandler (unlikely in Triangle)
Hibbert *player option*