Knicks · Dragic as main free agent works as well (page 3)
Knicks1969 wrote:Splat wrote:Lin may be very affordable, but I don't expect Dolan to remove his buttplug and bring him back.Lin? Seriously? The dude shy ex only because he was in an unstructured environment. He struggled mightily in Houston and ow in LA. Can he defend? The answer is "hell no." The time has come for the Knicks to stop making dumb mistakes when it comes to acquire one trick ponies.
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Splat wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Splat wrote:Lin may be very affordable, but I don't expect Dolan to remove his buttplug and bring him back.Lin? Seriously? The dude shy ex only because he was in an unstructured environment. He struggled mightily in Houston and ow in LA. Can he defend? The answer is "hell no." The time has come for the Knicks to stop making dumb mistakes when it comes to acquire one trick ponies.
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Byron Scott on Jeremy Lin: "If he got a lot more to give, then give it to us then."
Knicks1969 wrote:Splat wrote:Lin may be very affordable, but I don't expect Dolan to remove his buttplug and bring him back.Lin? Seriously? The dude shy ex only because he was in an unstructured environment. He struggled mightily in Houston and ow in LA. Can he defend? The answer is "hell no." The time has come for the Knicks to stop making dumb mistakes when it comes to acquire one trick ponies.
I think he got good potential in the triangle and if the price is cheap then its a good move. Given our situation its better to try and hit on Lin in the triangle with a cheaper deal then it is to offer max money to a Reggie Jackson or Dragic. Dragic at 10-12mil though wouldn't be to bad. Even if Lin only becomes an average role player providing instant offense off the bench. Its a move that would still keep our cap flexibility to add more free agents in 2016 and build a deeper overall team.
CrushAlot wrote:Splat wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Splat wrote:Lin may be very affordable, but I don't expect Dolan to remove his buttplug and bring him back.Lin? Seriously? The dude shy ex only because he was in an unstructured environment. He struggled mightily in Houston and ow in LA. Can he defend? The answer is "hell no." The time has come for the Knicks to stop making dumb mistakes when it comes to acquire one trick ponies.
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Byron Scott on Jeremy Lin: "If he got a lot more to give, then give it to us then."
In today's NBA you need a top tier PG. The choices from PG in FA are Dragic Jackson Rondo Knight. I'm thinking Rondo is staying in Dallas and I don't like Rondo for this team. The other 3 are all close I think Jackson has the upside Knight second Dragic third. However I think Dragic is the safest smartest player of the 3. If you cant get Leonard Gasol or Butler then the safest fastest way to get better is through the PG. I think we will get atleast 1 really good BIg out of this draft--I think if they are aggressive and savvy--they could come away with two. With Reggie Jackson--you could use him as a 1-2 almost like a smaller version of Harden and you can likely get him by using top $$$$. I do think Knight will be matched even to maximum $.
So there are your choices Reggie Jackson or Dragic. If we got Okafor Dragic might be the better safer choice. If we get Stein maybe Reggie Jackson with more offensive upside is the better choice. And then again we might be fcking shut out all together. Sans a miracle from Gasol or Butler the smartest free agents are Jackson or Dragic and we will have to overpay to get either. The darkhorse FA will be Aaron Afflalo. We "could" emphasize could get 1 of the PG's and Afflalo by stretching Jose and getting rid of Prigs 2mm. That would give us roughly 34mm and we could" offer the PG 13-15mm and AA 12-14mm. Their going to get paid by someone.
Splat wrote:nixluva wrote:I wouldn't bet on that high pick. I have a fear that unless Phil makes a trade this team is gonna get healthier and might actually win some of these close games they've been losing. It's just the law of averages. They've been right there at the end of so many games and if they get even just a little bit of a surge in production from guys who have been playing below their talent level it could mess up any draft position we have now. It won't take many wins to do that.As for Dragic I have no problem with him as a target, but I think we should also look at one of the younger guys like Brandon Knight or Reggie Jackson.
Sadly, this may happen. In which case the team is profoundly fukked.
not unless phil asks melo to shut it down.
newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:Splat wrote:Lin may be very affordable, but I don't expect Dolan to remove his buttplug and bring him back.Lin? Seriously? The dude shy ex only because he was in an unstructured environment. He struggled mightily in Houston and ow in LA. Can he defend? The answer is "hell no." The time has come for the Knicks to stop making dumb mistakes when it comes to acquire one trick ponies.
I think he got good potential in the triangle and if the price is cheap then its a good move. Given our situation its better to try and hit on Lin in the triangle with a cheaper deal then it is to offer max money to a Reggie Jackson or Dragic. Dragic at 10-12mil though wouldn't be to bad. Even if Lin only becomes an average role player providing instant offense off the bench. Its a move that would still keep our cap flexibility to add more free agents in 2016 and build a deeper overall team.
newyork--if we cant get what we want im sure we can piece meal the team with smaller moves that leave us with maximum cap flexibility the next year.
We'd be lucky to be able to overpay for him- only concern is age.
franco12 wrote:I'm watching Dragic and the Suns against Dallas- he's been a key spark in their second period run.We'd be lucky to be able to overpay for him- only concern is age.
the guy is a damn good player!!
we should just be careful not to overpay
You see, this is the Knick's history. They always wait until the player has peaked to sign them to a big deal. That's the only problem with giving him a sizable contract.
Either you rebuild or you don't, but this constant BS of giving big deals to older players just sucks. We're an old team about to get considerably younger. Let's not forget that has a value of its own once you're committed to the long haul and know you won't contend soon.
What may not have really sunk in here yet is next year is not likely to be very good either. And that's fine even if we don't have # 1 pick in 2016. You have to start at the bottom and build a solid foundation.
Not arguing against Dragic. He'd be a massive upgrade and we'd finally have a good PG, but there can be pitfalls if the the deal is too big or too long.
franco12 wrote:I'm watching Dragic and the Suns against Dallas- he's been a key spark in their second period run.We'd be lucky to be able to overpay for him- only concern is age.
Dragic has low miles he's only 28 and the most we could sign him for his 4 years. Steve Nash didnt get traded to the Suns until he was 30 then went on to win 2 MVPs at 33-34. We don't have a draft pick next year--I dont see 1 iota of downside even if we "overpay" so to speak. If we get Ok4 we'll have a post that can score 20+ a PG who can score 20 a SF who can score 20 then you fill it in with athletes/defenders a couple of spot shooters 2 rim protectors. Aggression determination and luck. Are the Phoenix Suns ready to pay three PGs nearly 40mm$? A 62mm$ deal over 4 years--good money spent. Puts us back in the playoffs immediately. If we ONLY get him as a multi year FA--we set the stage for another premium guy--but with a core of Dragic Ok4 or Stein Melo in place--maybe KD comes to NY in 2016.
BRIGGS wrote:franco12 wrote:I'm watching Dragic and the Suns against Dallas- he's been a key spark in their second period run.We'd be lucky to be able to overpay for him- only concern is age.
Dragic has low miles he's only 28 and the most we could sign him for his 4 years. Steve Nash didnt get traded to the Suns until he was 30 then went on to win 2 MVPs at 33-34. We don't have a draft pick next year--I dont see 1 iota of downside even if we "overpay" so to speak. If we get Ok4 we'll have a post that can score 20+ a PG who can score 20 a SF who can score 20 then you fill it in with athletes/defenders a couple of spot shooters 2 rim protectors. Aggression determination and luck.
He's one of the handful you might be right about. If he were a durable player who gave 4 years of quality service, it would take an enormous amount of pressure off everyone.
I can warm up to a Dragic deal, but historical precedent and Phil's actions so far still have me wary about the terms.
Dragic + OK4 + Thanassis would be enough to take the spotlight off Melo I think. That will have to happen to be successful with him here. He cannot remain the focus of this team. He has to become an effective 15 shot player and not always the guy with the last shot of the game. Having a good PG and Center could make that a reality.
Like I said, good things could happen, but I'm not planning on it.
He looked amazing last year though:
I think Lin is average/ a back up, but he does have a very similar game and skill set to Dragic. He'd be cheaper and is younger as a possible fall back option- however he is not on the same level as him.
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VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.
IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knife
While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space
Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?
BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
This is what i'm talking about!!! None of this defeatist attitude. Just being creative and thinking outside the box and looking for all kinds of options for rebuilding this team. It is in fact possible despite what some might think. We've got options and an increasing cap after the new TV deal. Knicks have to be smart for a change. Can shoot the whole clip but rather be selective with how we use the cap.
BRIGGS wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.
There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil
No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster
A player who may have to go under the knifeWhile the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better
You can't fit those 2 realistically into this spacePost with your brain and heart and not just with the latter
We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap.
I've yet to see you post anything remotely realistic clearing said room
Are you keeping or dumping Melo
If you're dumping Melo what's the selling point to coming here
I'm not saying I'm opposed to dumping Melo and suggesting he's a selling point
What's the positive sell with a ghost roster to free agents besides money
Which other teams can match or beat our offers with better rosters
Highest early cap projections are $65-66mil
Work from those figures with realistic and not criminal Briggs world end results