Knicks · Draft for us broken down by tiers (page 1)
1-4
Okafor
Stein
Harrell
Mudiay
18-29(no order)
Delon Wright PG(most efficient PG in draft has Rondo like abilities)
Terry Rozier PG( Great player incredible agility /athletiscm/skill package)
Frank Kaminsky C/PF
Tyler Harvey PG(this is my super sleeper who has Steph Curry potential as a 6-4 PG)
Christian Wood 6-11 PF UNLV
Zach Auguste PF(another sleeper that I really like that I already unleashed--think taller David Lee)
30-45
Robert Upshaw C(no longer a sleeper best shot blocker in draft)
Dakari Johnson C(may fall)
Jerian Grant PG
Justin Upshaw F
Tyrone Wallace G(really good player--I doubt he falls--but someone has to )
45 and below
Tyler Haws
Bryce Jones
What would you think of trading down - like lets say we end up with pick 4 or 5 - trading down for a mid teens and then perhaps 2 later first round/early picks?
Not sure who has that kind of stockpile - but perhaps Boston?
We have so many holes, and maybe Phil thinks Melo can be the lead star, but just needs support.
Personally, I wouldn't as I think Melo is too old & has too many holes in his game to be our lead player.
nixluva wrote:I think you have to think SIMPLE. Start with a concept of the kind of core you want. We already have Melo who is most likely going to be more and more a PF despite not really being a true PF in terms of size and rebounding. He's a bit between positions but no PF is going to be able to stop him. So if this is how he'll be used we have to think about what to put around him. The most obvious idea is a legit well rounded Center who can also pass and a well rounded PG/SG type who can break a defense down but still pass effectively. IMO just those two players would make a HUGE difference for this team. We can go either way in the draft depending on what the final draft position is. Then get the other need in Free Agency.
Melo at PF makes the Knicks very weak. Other PFs have trouble with him and he has trouble with them. The other PFs shoot a very high percentage vs Melo. Melo can out score them but not out shoot them. What you are doing is making the Knicks a jump shooting team and that won't win you much in this league. Balance of inside outside game is a must. So for those that get giddy with Melo at PF you know you're not going to far. I don't like the idea of Melo at PF. I'd rather just get a PF who plays his position and a sf who plays his position well.
Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:I think you have to think SIMPLE. Start with a concept of the kind of core you want. We already have Melo who is most likely going to be more and more a PF despite not really being a true PF in terms of size and rebounding. He's a bit between positions but no PF is going to be able to stop him. So if this is how he'll be used we have to think about what to put around him. The most obvious idea is a legit well rounded Center who can also pass and a well rounded PG/SG type who can break a defense down but still pass effectively. IMO just those two players would make a HUGE difference for this team. We can go either way in the draft depending on what the final draft position is. Then get the other need in Free Agency.Melo at PF makes the Knicks very weak. Other PFs have trouble with him and he has trouble with them. The other PFs shoot a very high percentage vs Melo. Melo can out score them but not out shoot them. What you are doing is making the Knicks a jump shooting team and that won't win you much in this league. Balance of inside outside game is a must. So for those that get giddy with Melo at PF you know you're not going to far. I don't like the idea of Melo at PF. I'd rather just get a PF who plays his position and a sf who plays his position well.
Hate to break it to you but we are a jump shooting team. Within 3 feet of the basket we take the 4th fewest shots in the league behind only LAL, LAC, and Indy. Within 3-10 feet of the basket we take the 2nd fewest shots in the league behind only Miami. Between 10 and 16 feet we take the 4th most shots in the league behind Washington, LAL, and Phoenix. Between 16 feet and the 3-point line we take the most shots in the league.
Also, in the 4+ seasons he's been here we have clearly been a better team with Melo at the 4 instead of the 3.
Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:I think you have to think SIMPLE. Start with a concept of the kind of core you want. We already have Melo who is most likely going to be more and more a PF despite not really being a true PF in terms of size and rebounding. He's a bit between positions but no PF is going to be able to stop him. So if this is how he'll be used we have to think about what to put around him. The most obvious idea is a legit well rounded Center who can also pass and a well rounded PG/SG type who can break a defense down but still pass effectively. IMO just those two players would make a HUGE difference for this team. We can go either way in the draft depending on what the final draft position is. Then get the other need in Free Agency.Melo at PF makes the Knicks very weak. Other PFs have trouble with him and he has trouble with them. The other PFs shoot a very high percentage vs Melo. Melo can out score them but not out shoot them. What you are doing is making the Knicks a jump shooting team and that won't win you much in this league. Balance of inside outside game is a must. So for those that get giddy with Melo at PF you know you're not going to far. I don't like the idea of Melo at PF. I'd rather just get a PF who plays his position and a sf who plays his position well.
Vmart,
Melo has played his best ball at the PF but I do agree its not a long term solution.
Phil does not see positions but basketball players on the floor. Basically as long as he can defend at the wing and someone to defend the PF that could work. there might be times he is not not on the perimeter in the offense but in the interior. This won't happen until he can kick it out. He needs to be better in the offense (well documented) and also needs others he can trust!!!
He can't play the PF with Amare, but he could with Bargnani, with Bargs guarding the PF. I didn't say he would defend it well!! Just the concept.
Nalod wrote:Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:I think you have to think SIMPLE. Start with a concept of the kind of core you want. We already have Melo who is most likely going to be more and more a PF despite not really being a true PF in terms of size and rebounding. He's a bit between positions but no PF is going to be able to stop him. So if this is how he'll be used we have to think about what to put around him. The most obvious idea is a legit well rounded Center who can also pass and a well rounded PG/SG type who can break a defense down but still pass effectively. IMO just those two players would make a HUGE difference for this team. We can go either way in the draft depending on what the final draft position is. Then get the other need in Free Agency.Melo at PF makes the Knicks very weak. Other PFs have trouble with him and he has trouble with them. The other PFs shoot a very high percentage vs Melo. Melo can out score them but not out shoot them. What you are doing is making the Knicks a jump shooting team and that won't win you much in this league. Balance of inside outside game is a must. So for those that get giddy with Melo at PF you know you're not going to far. I don't like the idea of Melo at PF. I'd rather just get a PF who plays his position and a sf who plays his position well.
Vmart,
Melo has played his best ball at the PF but I do agree its not a long term solution.
Phil does not see positions but basketball players on the floor. Basically as long as he can defend at the wing and someone to defend the PF that could work. there might be times he is not not on the perimeter in the offense but in the interior. This won't happen until he can kick it out. He needs to be better in the offense (well documented) and also needs others he can trust!!!He can't play the PF with Amare, but he could with Bargnani, with Bargs guarding the PF. I didn't say he would defend it well!! Just the concept.
Melo's success as a small ball four depends on the shooting accuracy of the wings on the floor with him. If Shump/THJ/JR aren't hitting it, doesn't matter if Melo is a three or four. The opposing team will put their best defender on Melo, double team him and take it's chances.
BRIGGS wrote:As of Dec 24
1-4
Okafor
Stein
Harrell
Mudiay
18-29(no order)
Delon Wright PG(most efficient PG in draft has Rondo like abilities)
Terry Rozier PG( Great player incredible agility /athletiscm/skill package)
Frank Kaminsky C/PF
Tyler Harvey PG(this is my super sleeper who has Stephy Curry potential as a 6-4 PG)Zach Auguste PF(another sleeper that I really like that I already unleashed--think taller David Lee)
30-45
Robert Upshaw C(no longer a sleeper best shot blocker in draft)
Dakari Johnson C(may fall)
Jerian Grant PG
Justin Upshaw F
Tyrone Wallace G(really good player--I doubt he falls--but someone has to )45 and below
Tyler Haws
Bryce Jones
No idea what you are doing here and no clue what you are smoking.
Knicks1969 wrote:Out of that list, is there a 6'7" point forward and a TRUE 7' center with two-way abilities?
I think that if we can somehow obtain an additional first round pick and purchase 1 or 2 seconds--we will be able to fit holes LONGER term. There has to be patience with this segment. You get guys together who STAY together--become friends--play every day together and you build up a bond and chemistry. Obviously there is the execution of talent part thats most important. But what do I think we can *potentially * get out of this draft the way I think it may fall--I think we can get two big men 1 high quality PG and possibly another pure shooter from the wing. We dont have a 1 next year--we need to start building as hard and fast as we can NOW--and obviously the more cost restricted assets you have--the higher flexibility we have in possible trades. Thats what Boston is doing right now. We will get better faster by building up the middle--like in EVERY sport pitcher catcher QB C basketball pivot PG. EVEN if we spend the money on Dragic we will still need another HIGH quality PG. In this draft the PGs are there after 15--and I think if many come out--we'll have a chance at that OR if a big is just to good to pass on--I think we can find a PG that falls to rd 2. Anything after 45? shooters wings thats where you might look there. Guys like Danny Green werent even drafted--its easier to find guards and SF's. Harder to get quality BIGS and PGs.