Knicks · Dragic every game consistent (page 1)

Jose needs to have his contract waived and we can use the stretch provision on him. He has to be gone--he's awful. If we're going to compete right away--if were going to build a new culture--in this day and age you start @ PG. This guy is 7-12 5-4 every night. When is the pure 1 again the assists will go up to 7-8. He's a 20-4-7 PG 50%--we need that.

I'd love to get Dragic- worried about his age, though.

I think if we get Dragic, a top 4 pick and keep some of the better players on the roster (Cole) with Melo, we're in a much better position to be competitive.

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

The Triangle is actually more flexible than that. You can switch the emphasis quite easily. It just depends on how your team is built. If you have a Combo Guard who is more of a dynamic scorer then you don't hide him away in the corner. You put him in the Kobe and Jordan role in the offense. As long as everyone makes quick decisions with the ball it's fine. You just don't want to be holding the ball and pounding it going nowhere. Catch it in motion and shoot, make a move or pass. Quick decision making is what is lacking on this team. Some players can do it and others are only used to pounding the ball or holding it and thinking. Gotta bring in more guys who can make quick decisions based on what the defense is giving you.

For the guards on the team they always have the same options of catch and shoot, drive, pass n cut to the basket or set up a PnR in the Pinch Post. If THJ was shooting better he'd be just fine offensively but his shot is broken this year. Prigs and Jose are not strong penetrators or finishers. JR is an idiot with bad habits of overdribbling, even tho he's higher % on catch and shoot. SMH Shump was playing the right way when he was in there but he still isn't a reliable finisher or shooter. We need an upgrade.

Im not saying it has to be Dragic. I actually would prefer a younger guard like Reggie Jackson or Brandon Knight, but if Dragic is the choice I have no problem with that. It would be a vast improvement for the team.

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

With all the Guards on The Sun's, to clear salary, we could offer a trade exemption and probably next to nothing (maybe one of our players like Acy/Larkin)

Archie Goodwin
quite under the radar, a BIG combo guard who is also from Kentucky that had a pretty high ceiling as a draft prospect, also learning behind both Dragic/Bledsoe *also from Kentucky*, and now Isiah Thomas
He will always be buried behind the bench of those guards and Sun's just drafted Tyler Ennis, another PURE PG, he has greats size/wingspan and length, offering versatility and the ability to defend 2, maybe 3 positions

Tyler Ennis

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole/ Cory Joseph *ALL DEFENSIVE PG's and RFA's*

The extremely possible lowballs, from possbility vet min to 2.5m...

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

Kendall Marshall

Donald Sloan

Ronnie Price/AJ Price
Ray McCallum *restricted FA*

Darius Morris/Tourre Murry

we likely we bring in our D Leaguers that have been running the Triangle to go with Thanasis

1- Thanasis

2- Langston Galloway combo guard/PG that can hit spot up 3pters, penetrate a bit, play decent defense with his length/size, and shows he has a decent IQ with the ability to run a team

3- Orlando Sanchez F, PF, great fit in the system, game reminds me of a tweener in between the talents of Sullinger/Channing Frye

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

I like Reggie Jackson & Beverly

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Thats what we need from that position.

IMHO, the issue is the Knicks need more overall talent period.

Whether it's from Dragic or elsewhere is another issue. When you need talent up and down the roster, you have to ask yourself if you can get 65-70 percent of the production of Player X for 20 percent of his cost if you took Player Y instead.

Dragic is the "name player" but he's not the only option out there. Also your "two year" plan seems to revolve around winning the lottery, getting a guy like Dragic and surrounding him with three rookies.

Stretching Calderon at this point seems reactionary. Give him a full season with the Knicks, a full year, and see how things develop with him. The early returns are not good, but gutting a guy so early in his Knicks tenure, and not for criminal/disciplinary reasons, seems extreme. I'm all for jettisoning dead weight when it's dead weight, but IMHO the franchise cannot consistently make reactionary moves and build a strong foundation.

Good teams with strong front offices can mine the point guard position. You can pay top dollar price for Dragic, taking him out of his system, which helps his cause, or you can do the legwork that other good franchises do and see if you can get PG help in other ways. PG is a position where teams have managed to get by without always having to use top shelf resources to get it. Derek Fisher is an example of that.

You're pretty much right. I want all in on this draft. I would accept doing whatever I could IF the players that made sense were there AND we could acquire them(not easy). There are so many bigs--there are several contingency plans--so I figure start with the top--we have 50 games and 6 months to discuss scenarios 2-3-4- etc.. but the premise of mine would be the same---two bigs two PG's flexibility in 2016.

The one thing that you are wrong in is the compensation level of PG's--its actually the highest paid position in the NBA. If you take a real good look at all the good teams--95% have a top tier type PG.

I don't like our chances of getting BIGS out of FA--this year is very unusual in the draft you are going to have a multitude of quality 4-5's that will be very good over time.

I just dont see Calderon as a guy worth more than 2.5mm at best--so If I can add 4.5 and 4.8mm in cap space the next two years by stretching him--I get way more out of it. Hes aging his record here is 1-20 since his return--I don't like his style of play--I dont like anything about his play--hes terrible and Ive seen enough to know I DO NOT want to go forward with him. Maybe Thansis works out--but that trade needs to be shoved under the rug.

djsunyc wrote:speaking of jose - both kobe and phil liked calderon for a while. when he was in toronto, they were asking about him b/c they felt he was the perfect fit in the triangle.

Phil wanted to trade for PJ Hairston at the draft due to his potential to post up from the SG position. I think Phil was looking for Calderon to be able to feed off of the triple post options which we don't really have at the moment.

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

Right--Im not worried about defense from the PG--is GS concerned that Steph Curry cant guard his shadow--whats their record? Ill take a quick PG as the third guy. The top 2 need high offensive skill levels and size.

The Knicks as a team need a consistent player who can help manage the game. While Dragic is NO Lowry--we could establish a consistent base from the G position--we have not had that in years. I think he can also improve his game as well. Steve Nash just signed with Phoenix at 30 Dragic is 28. I can see Dragic's as a 20 points 7 assist 4 rebound 50% player for us for 4 years. Thats good money spent. He's not an injury type player hes not a high flyer and has relative low miles.

gunsnewing wrote:

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

I like Reggie Jackson & Beverly

You are a number's guy, simply looking at STAT's to evaluate a player, which sometimes can work, but a lot of times is very misleading
CA's totally understands this and that was why he took advantage of Woodson's system, to justify this contract he just recieved
That is why he feels the need to continue to put up points the way he does, the same reason why he does not defend a sharp shooter when it is his man, even when it is someone like Kyler Korver, to hunt that rebound down, and that is why he has recieved all the critisism from past coaches/players....

Reggie Jackson does not play good defense

He can get some steals but he is pretty bad on defense despite his size/length

newyorknewyork wrote:

djsunyc wrote:speaking of jose - both kobe and phil liked calderon for a while. when he was in toronto, they were asking about him b/c they felt he was the perfect fit in the triangle.

Phil wanted to trade for PJ Hairston at the draft due to his potential to post up from the SG position. I think Phil was looking for Calderon to be able to feed off of the triple post options which we don't really have at the moment.

Im a little fearful of Phil. He needs to take a step back and think about what he has in mind.

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

Right--Im not worried about defense from the PG--is GS concerned that Steph Curry cant guard his shadow--whats their record? Ill take a quick PG as the third guy. The top 2 need high offensive skill levels and size.

The Knicks as a team need a consistent player who can help manage the game. While Dragic is NO Lowry--we could establish a consistent base from the G position--we have not had that in years. I think he can also improve his game as well. Steve Nash just signed with Phoenix at 30 Dragic is 28. I can see Dragic's as a 20 points 7 assist 4 rebound 50% player for us for 4 years. Thats good money spent. He's not an injury type player hes not a high flyer and has relative low miles.

Honestly Brigg's, I think the most we can spend on a PG is about 12m which rate for a VERY good PG right now
Anything above that and we would be overpaying, however, players might not see it that way *because of our HIGH STATE TAX and PROPERTY being extremely high in NYK*

This doesn't mean I would be willing to offer anyone a 12m contract either, I surely do not believe Reggie Jackson deserves anything close to that amount
We probably should be looking at value, we simply need to find as many talents as we can in many positions and bench
Probably could afford ONE contract that is above 10m, unless JR Smith OPT's out of his deadl

Like I have said in many other posts', we need to fill in a lot of talent in many positions, unless we trade our #1st rounder for many other picks and possibly maybe some young pieces
This draft is so deep that we can grab players with Ibaka/Drummond like potential after the lottery picks, just look at the talent in Kentucky alone....

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

djsunyc wrote:speaking of jose - both kobe and phil liked calderon for a while. when he was in toronto, they were asking about him b/c they felt he was the perfect fit in the triangle.

Phil wanted to trade for PJ Hairston at the draft due to his potential to post up from the SG position. I think Phil was looking for Calderon to be able to feed off of the triple post options which we don't really have at the moment.

Im a little fearful of Phil. He needs to take a step back and think about what he has in mind.

I think PJ Hairson will be a very solid NBA player, somewhere between Lance Stephenson and Shabazz Mohammed
Of course we can predict how hard a player works and how he will develop, however, his potentially is surely there

gunsnewing wrote:

RonRon wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

djsunyc wrote:if you want current dragic next year, then he has to be your SG. pg's don't have this type of role in the triangle.

especially point guards who play zero defense

no to Dragic

Really Gun's?
You telling me you would rather have Patrick Beverely, Norris Cole, over Dragic?

I accept that we likely will not be a very good defensive team, not the way we spend money on CA who is even an average defender
In building a team just to make up for CA's inbilities on DEFENSE, we will also be lacking OFFENSE weapons, so we are screwed either way
With the talent we need and cap space, lack of of draft picks we have, we simply cannot acquire enough players that are good players on OFF and DEF
We need qualitiy players and in quantity, so it just is not realistc

What we can do is sign a DEFENSIVE PG to be part of our rotation, likely a backup....
I wonder what Patrick Beverly will get as he is a restricted FA...

Dragic
Brandon Knight

Rajon Rhondo (not a very good fit for us, I think Dallas will have trouble fitting him in to their OFFENSE)

Would low not pay very much money for players under here

Reggie Jackson
Lin

Lou Williams

Patrick Beveerly/ Norris Cole

Jammer Nelson *player option*

Randy Foye *team option* Think he would fit in the triangle and team, especially if it is at a very cap friendly deal

I like Reggie Jackson & Beverly

Typical guns ...

do you ever ever look at these guys stats?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksre01.html

our very new Tony Douglass from three. Sweet.

gunsnewing wrote:Defense

we have shumpert for that.

now we need offenders

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Defense

we have shumpert for that.

now we need offenders

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Defense

we have shumpert for that.

now we need offenders

We have a lot of offensive players

we certainly do.