Knicks · I think some Knick fans deserve this mess (page 2)

EnySpree wrote:

Splat wrote:You think Fisher, at the end of his playing career, was going to say no to $25M? I mean so many say the thing about Melo, I assume they'd say the same about Fish.

Just like the Knicks were stupid to give Melo his massive, no-trade contract, Phil (and Dolan) were also stupid to give a five year deal to a guy who had never coached before. I don't know the terms of Kidd's deal with the Nets, but it wasn't an albatross like Fisher's deal.

So what was that deal all about?

Phil.

It all points back to Phil.

Phil wanted his own group of buddies. Whether they were the best choices or not. Just loyalists. Just like Dolan.

It is a microcosm of Dolanism.

That's why the Fisher situation is a mess. Not only has he never coached a 4th grade basketball game, but he's in Phil's pocket.

How can anyone slobber over Phil with the way he has proceeded? Only the usual holdout suckers are mooning over Phil's zen BS. It's just another joke in a long line of Knicks jokes.

We're a bad team but the subplots you made up are garbage

alexs wrote:Splat I enjoy your posts but here you forget to mention that Phil is surrounding hi.self with people with whichhe has had a lot of proven results. Dolan just with yeahsayers, huge difference. But I guess you're not in management

No, I didn't forget that, but that was all done under the premise of building a new culture using the Triangle system, which was Phil digging into his memories of the past and using it like pixie dust to bewitch Dolan and the public.

Phil has shown zero evidence to be up to speed with contemporary NBA management practices. He's living in the past. He brought his past with him. In the process, he created a bubble around himself.

Furthermore, Phil apparently acquiesced to Dolan's two biggest demands, both of which define the nature of highly paid servitude. He opened the vaults to Melo and he kept Steve Mills. We can't be 100% sure about the first, but we know the second is definitely true.

This was sold as Phil having autonomy. It is total BS. It was tainted as hell from the very start. And then Phil made it worse by surrounding himself with Yes men when what he needed was the sharpest minds and people with aggressive opinions to challenge him.

The Knicks organization now has a legacy of loyalist policies and Phil did nothing to change that.

And the Triangle is just one method out of many. You use what works with the talent you have, but in today's NBA you don't plan 5-10 years into the future what system you're going to play. You adjust as you go along. That's what good coaches do. Phil sold you BS.

You don't feel empowered by this position? Rumors, Gossip, TMS, E! and the like thrive on people being empowered by the negative gossip of "stars" because their failure makes them human, just like the rest of us. Then we applaud their comeback because it gives us hope.

Its the same reason Starphuchers latch on to a savior because they have hope. They want to tear down melo now. Most of negative seems to resent his money.

1) cashed in on his reputation;

2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;

3) thought his chit doesn't stink;

4) was living in the past;

5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and

6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.

Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.

I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.

None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

Splat wrote:Just like my opinions on Melo were once on the fringe and are now becoming a consensus, I guarantee you in the future most fans will agree that Phil:

1) cashed in on his reputation;

2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;

3) thought his chit doesn't stink;

4) was living in the past;

5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and

6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.

Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.

I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.

None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2015/01/01/james-curry-remain-all-star-voting-leaders/?ls=iref:nbahpt13a

Melo was #2 behind Lebron. He's fallen to #3. That should be enough to fire up the gang tonight!

And yes Nalod... just like DK knows how Melo "feels" about things Splat has insight into the inner workings and motivations of most everyone in the Knicks front office.

Splat wrote:Just like my opinions on Melo were once on the fringe and are now becoming a consensus, I guarantee you in the future most fans will agree that Phil:

1) cashed in on his reputation;

2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;

3) thought his chit doesn't stink;

4) was living in the past;

5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and

6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.

Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.

I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.

None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

You just kind of proved my point. Your more into gossip and rumor than maybe being open minded about the opportunity ahead. None of these things are quantifiable so you can argue the concept.

Your using your opinion but state as if you have knowledge.

Popovitch is all the above but he is winning at the moment. Phil has 6 more rings than POP. Pop is an ass at times. Pop wins. Red Auerbach was a dyck. Krause was a dick. Riley is a dick. LB is and was a dick. These winners are arrogant and want things done their way. Riley had some awful teams in Miami as well. Then he picked Beasley. But then he tore it down and tried again. Arrogant winners are not afraid to fail. Losers are afraid to succeed.

I doubt this season will turn around and IM not sure I want it to but your making labels and assumptions based on 35 games. Even if its 82 games. Then we'll see. next summer how it all comes together.

Top 4 pick and room to sign players. Nothing should be done to sacrifice those two things.
Melo is a proven commodity in this league and got paid. If part of a trio of star talent he'll be fine.

BRIGGS wrote:Did you hear those fools chanting fire Fisher"

What the hll is Derek Fisher going to do--run on the court and play PG for the Knicks--heck we'd have two more wins. Do these people understand that

A. Losing helps us right now? You should be praising the man.

B. We really and I mean really sck--The NY Knicks have the WORST and I mean the WORST roster in the nBA and 2nd place is not close? If Phil Jackson were coaching this team would have 8 wins max.

C. If you cant accept the reality this year--just stay home--eat the tix and bring your wife to a show instead. Going to a NY Knicks game should be considered a masochistic act--if you are into that stuff.

With some of the dumb NYers it's simply fire him fir e her fire their dog. Shut the heck up and go stick your dumb arse in the sand. You can come out when we have pick #1 in June.

You mean fans like you who go Coo-Coo for Coa-Coa Puffs

Trying to pillage teams in trade scenarios for their valuables to build around Jack-O-Latern Head

EnySpree wrote:Did you guys even see the players we put out there tonight? How could that team possibly win with that talent? Jr smith and thjr were our best scorers. Quincy acy, Josh smith, Coke Alrich Were or best bigs. Come on now.

All the nonsense about fisher and Phil is just drama. The truth is the roster is just not talented enough.

Briggs is right. You guys deserve this team and this situation. You bring up Larry brown. That team he coached had a ton more talent than this current knick team. You complainers deserve all these wacky years.

Spree were were 3 for, 4 for, 5 for

Well before we put this garbage out

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Did you hear those fools chanting fire Fisher"

What the hll is Derek Fisher going to do--run on the court and play PG for the Knicks--heck we'd have two more wins. Do these people understand that

A. Losing helps us right now? You should be praising the man.

B. We really and I mean really sck--The NY Knicks have the WORST and I mean the WORST roster in the nBA and 2nd place is not close? If Phil Jackson were coaching this team would have 8 wins max.

C. If you cant accept the reality this year--just stay home--eat the tix and bring your wife to a show instead. Going to a NY Knicks game should be considered a masochistic act--if you are into that stuff.

With some of the dumb NYers it's simply fire him fir e her fire their dog. Shut the heck up and go stick your dumb arse in the sand. You can come out when we have pick #1 in June.

You mean fans like you who go Coo-Coo for Coa-Coa Puffs

Try to pillage teams in trade scenarios for their valuables to build around Jack-O-Latern Head

Trade Scenrio's are fun for some people. Briggs does not speak for the knicks. Some of you do as if you have a portal into their heads.

Nalod wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Did you hear those fools chanting fire Fisher"

What the hll is Derek Fisher going to do--run on the court and play PG for the Knicks--heck we'd have two more wins. Do these people understand that

A. Losing helps us right now? You should be praising the man.

B. We really and I mean really sck--The NY Knicks have the WORST and I mean the WORST roster in the nBA and 2nd place is not close? If Phil Jackson were coaching this team would have 8 wins max.

C. If you cant accept the reality this year--just stay home--eat the tix and bring your wife to a show instead. Going to a NY Knicks game should be considered a masochistic act--if you are into that stuff.

With some of the dumb NYers it's simply fire him fir e her fire their dog. Shut the heck up and go stick your dumb arse in the sand. You can come out when we have pick #1 in June.

You mean fans like you who go Coo-Coo for Coa-Coa Puffs

Try to pillage teams in trade scenarios for their valuables to build around Jack-O-Latern Head

Trade Scenrio's are fun for some people. Briggs does not speak for the knicks. Some of you do as if you have a portal into their heads.

You just said in another post "Wear is part of the Knicks future"

Sounds like you speak for the Knicks

You're working diligently mixing Dr. Phil with Dr. Seuss

I doubt you get there but I don't want to kill your dreams

Back to Nalod REMing into Inception

Vmart wrote:Fans lack patience this is old news. To many idiot fans don't know a plan is in works. To them don't go to the game. These are the same idiots that are going to show next year wearing the number one draft picks jersey.

Yup exactly

Stupid is a stupid does

If this was football, Fisher would have WR quarter backing and DB's playing safety. He wants a system in which any player can fill and role, and that's not possible.

What kinda of culture is this, 5 wins, no defense, no free throws, no toughness, no penetration, no accountability, and no leadership.

That's what you want a young 19 yr old player to come here and except.

A prime fallacy demonstrated here over and over again showing an utter lack of self-awareness is attacking criticism as emotionalism and missing the irony of making such an emotional response. It is not debating.

If I want to watch hamsters in a cage gnawing on their knuckles, I can go to a pet store for that.

The real sourpusses are all of these incompetent debaters. They rarely come back with counter-arguments, but lots of default loyalties to large corporations over dissenting viewpoints. I've seen the brainwashed masses and they can be found on sports forums.

The world has not advanced much. Medieval minds pickled in digital ether is mostly what I see here.

knicks1248 wrote:We have no coach, it's a disrespect to the coaching fraternity to say it's not fishers fualt. He's a long way from understanding the fundamentals or having a voice in the front office. This is not the type of roster you can put a rookie ass coach in and expect results. This roster needs a season coach who will maximize his talent, and play guys to their strength.

If this was football, Fisher would have WR quarter backing and DB's playing safety. He wants a system in which any player can fill and role, and that's not possible.

What kinda of culture is this, 5 wins, no defense, no free throws, no toughness, no penetration, no accountability, and no leadership.

That's what you want a young 19 yr old player to come here and except.

Phil explained his reasoning behind the Fisher hire. Also he's surrounded by the type of seasoned guys your talking about. Also the Knicks were in all those losses for awhile. Im not hanging my hat on losing 17 games by or less, but to suggest that the players didnt try or were not coached is not fair either.

Splat wrote:The argumentation skills on this forum are largely nonexistent. So many lack the basic intellectual skills to distinguish terminology in order to have a debate.

A prime fallacy demonstrated here over and over again showing an utter lack of self-awareness is attacking criticism as emotionalism and missing the irony of making such an emotional response. It is not debating.

If I want to watch hamsters in a cage gnawing on their knuckles, I can go to a pet store for that.

The real sourpusses are all of these incompetent debaters. They rarely come back with counter-arguments, but lots of default loyalties to large corporations over dissenting viewpoints. I've seen the brainwashed masses and they can be found on sports forums.

The world has not advanced much. Medieval minds pickled in digital ether is mostly what I see here.

Vmart wrote:Fans lack patience this is old news. To many idiot fans don't know a plan is in works. To them don't go to the game. These are the same idiots that are going to show next year wearing the number one draft picks jersey.

Fans on message boards can do/say what they want because there are no repercussions. For instance they can be total a$$hats and spew the same over the top negative crap.....again and again.

If results keep being negative for the team they are "Right" and spew some more.

If things start to turn around for the team they can spew about individual negative things.

If they get banned or if things turn totally around for the team they can disappear and start under a new screen name.

In sports there is always negative to find if you look for it. Athletes are human just like the rest of us, that is, prone to make mistakes. Even if a player shoots 50% - he is still missing 50% of his shots.

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:Just like my opinions on Melo were once on the fringe and are now becoming a consensus, I guarantee you in the future most fans will agree that Phil:

1) cashed in on his reputation;

2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;

3) thought his chit doesn't stink;

4) was living in the past;

5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and

6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.

Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.

I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.

None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

You just kind of proved my point. Your more into gossip and rumor than maybe being open minded about the opportunity ahead. None of these things are quantifiable so you can argue the concept.

Your using your opinion but state as if you have knowledge.

Popovitch is all the above but he is winning at the moment. Phil has 6 more rings than POP. Pop is an ass at times. Pop wins. Red Auerbach was a dyck. Krause was a dick. Riley is a dick. LB is and was a dick. These winners are arrogant and want things done their way. Riley had some awful teams in Miami as well. Then he picked Beasley. But then he tore it down and tried again. Arrogant winners are not afraid to fail. Losers are afraid to succeed.

I doubt this season will turn around and IM not sure I want it to but your making labels and assumptions based on 35 games. Even if its 82 games. Then we'll see. next summer how it all comes together.

Top 4 pick and room to sign players. Nothing should be done to sacrifice those two things.
Melo is a proven commodity in this league and got paid. If part of a trio of star talent he'll be fine.

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.