fishmike wrote:Towns scares me and I will tell you why. So far I don't see an NBA motor. Skill set is there. Athleticism is there. Its just that he floats a ton. And when he gets fired and becomes a force on both ends he runs out of gas VERY quickly. That and he's got lousy hands. He gets tons of balls knocked away and often losses battles with much smaller players.Im torn. I 100% see all the upside the guys who are high on him see. Its there, it cant be denied. How much is Calipari "teaching" him and how much is he hiding him? I think his minutes may be restricted because he knows the kid cant play much more than half a game.
Im not sure OK4 has a lower ceiling either.. he's going to be a load as he gets stronger. Not built like a Karl Malone but a guy who is just a physical force and nightmare to guard. Like Zach on roids.
I would be equally "comfortable" taking either Ok4 or Russell in that order. They are NBA ready with HOF potential. Why do I need to wonder about Town's question marks when there are two star ponies staring me in the face?
I cant see how Towns should go before Russell or OK4. Then the debate is Muiday, Towns or that Euro kid who looks like an 8 foot Kukoc
Fishmike--you have the same valid points that I brought up many times this year and right now Okafor is simply a better offensive player. But Karl Towns gave me what I was waiting for and I think he can give more a LOT more. What he gave me was extended production with extended minutes. He gave me tough rebounding the last 3 games a game winning shot tough play. Because of his DEFENSE his OVERALL upside is above Okafor. Okafor is GREAT--he is possibly the next Karl Malone with ONLY a downside of Al Jefferson. If we get Okafor were in GREAT shape. But Towns overall game is even better and I think we have 3 POTENTIAL mega all stars at the top of this draft and SOME very good additional players. This is the best draft in a LONG time. So much was talked about in terms of the big 3 last year and we wont know everything for a few years--and if Embiid can play--but the top 3 and maybe throughout the lottery even well far down--its a nice year to have a high pick this year
BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:Towns scares me and I will tell you why. So far I don't see an NBA motor. Skill set is there. Athleticism is there. Its just that he floats a ton. And when he gets fired and becomes a force on both ends he runs out of gas VERY quickly. That and he's got lousy hands. He gets tons of balls knocked away and often losses battles with much smaller players.Im torn. I 100% see all the upside the guys who are high on him see. Its there, it cant be denied. How much is Calipari "teaching" him and how much is he hiding him? I think his minutes may be restricted because he knows the kid cant play much more than half a game.
Im not sure OK4 has a lower ceiling either.. he's going to be a load as he gets stronger. Not built like a Karl Malone but a guy who is just a physical force and nightmare to guard. Like Zach on roids.
I would be equally "comfortable" taking either Ok4 or Russell in that order. They are NBA ready with HOF potential. Why do I need to wonder about Town's question marks when there are two star ponies staring me in the face?
I cant see how Towns should go before Russell or OK4. Then the debate is Muiday, Towns or that Euro kid who looks like an 8 foot Kukoc
Fishmike--you have the same valid points that I brought up many times this year and right now Okafor is simply a better offensive player. But Karl Towns gave me what I was waiting for and I think he can give more a LOT more. What he gave me was extended production with extended minutes. He gave me tough rebounding the last 3 games a game winning shot tough play. Because of his DEFENSE his OVERALL upside is above Okafor. Okafor is GREAT--he is possibly the next Karl Malone with ONLY a downside of Al Jefferson. If we get Okafor were in GREAT shape. But Towns overall game is even better and I think we have 3 POTENTIAL mega all stars at the top of this draft and SOME very good additional players. This is the best draft in a LONG time. So much was talked about in terms of the big 3 last year and we wont know everything for a few years--and if Embiid can play--but the top 3 and maybe throughout the lottery even well far down--its a nice year to have a high pick this year
Kaminsky played right after last night. He's going to be a very good player also.
I guess with Towns the problem is if he's not intense or driven enough and his motor is a problem he can be a bust. Like you said at the VERY WORST with OK4 your getting a high caliber bigman who score.
Plus you can get Emeka to come and play for the vet minimum ;)
fishmike wrote:Towns scares me and I will tell you why. So far I don't see an NBA motor. Skill set is there. Athleticism is there. Its just that he floats a ton. And when he gets fired and becomes a force on both ends he runs out of gas VERY quickly. That and he's got lousy hands. He gets tons of balls knocked away and often losses battles with much smaller players.Im torn. I 100% see all the upside the guys who are high on him see. Its there, it cant be denied. How much is Calipari "teaching" him and how much is he hiding him? I think his minutes may be restricted because he knows the kid cant play much more than half a game.
Im not sure OK4 has a lower ceiling either.. he's going to be a load as he gets stronger. Not built like a Karl Malone but a guy who is just a physical force and nightmare to guard. Like Zach on roids.
I would be equally "comfortable" taking either Ok4 or Russell in that order. They are NBA ready with HOF potential. Why do I need to wonder about Town's question marks when there are two star ponies staring me in the face?
I cant see how Towns should go before Russell or OK4. Then the debate is Muiday, Towns or that Euro kid who looks like an 8 foot Kukoc
Yep, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I always come away not being very impressed with him. I'd be wary of taking him. I think if a player is raw but with vast upside, they need to have a killer work ethic- he doesn't have anywhere near that. I'd take Russell over Mudiay, but wouldn't take Towns over OK4. Likely the choice will be out of our hands as I doubt we get the number 1 pick.
Towns was a big time high end high school/AAU prospect. There is a reason he is playing for Calipari in Kentucky. When has Duke ever produced anything but a solid NBA big. Laettner? Brand put up good numbers on bad nba teams but undersized
Coach K is a tremendously successful college coach. Great college system but Calipari has produced more high quality NBA players. Year after year Calipari recruits the best national players to play for his team
BRIGGS wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Towns
12pts
13rebs
2blksBeautiful
Watched the whole game again. While Towns still needs base strength--if I knew I needed one shot ton win a game--that long soft jumphook in the post looks awfully high %. The guy is a big time rebounder and he can pass and hes a shot blocker. He also showed of a decent 16 footer on a broken play when the shot clock was falling down. I think while all 3 players are a cut above every one else--the best bet just might be Karl Towns. Now I wouldnt play him at 5 Id play him at 4---I DO NOT want Melo @ 4--Id rather see him come back as a slimmed down 3 man. It is becoming apparent that Towns is a little more diversified than Okafor and while Okafor might have the better offensive game---Towns overall game is a slight step above.
In terms of Phil Jackson--I have to think he see's Tonws--especially after watching the last 3 games--that Towns is much more of a 5 than Okafor and that for the style of play Towns makes slightly more sense. I may be wrong but I think that Towns might just be more valuable to us than Ok4
Yes Briggs -- you are starting to see this more clearly now.
Towns will fit on both ends of the court and he still has lots of room to fill out -- check out those size +20 feet of his he's dragging around.
If we pick Towns than Greg Monroe becomes a very nice fit next to him on the front line. Towns could off-set some of Monroe's shot blocking and perimeter shooting issues and both pass the ball very nicely. A Towns/Monroe/Melo front line would be a pretty nasty bunch.
Lots of ways you could go but ----- Towns can play.
Bottom line -- I think before this is all over -- there are 4 LEGIT prospects (I expect Mudiay to make a very significant push during workouts) and I also think S-Johnson and K-Porzingis are not far behind. I think S-Johnson could have HUGE NBA upside --- feel the same way about WCS just based on pace of the NBA game and spacing that will allow his unbelievably athleticism to shine.
BigDaddyG wrote:BRIGGS wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Towns
12pts
13rebs
2blksBeautiful
Watched the whole game again. While Towns still needs base strength--if I knew I needed one shot ton win a game--that long soft jumphook in the post looks awfully high %. The guy is a big time rebounder and he can pass and hes a shot blocker. He also showed of a decent 16 footer on a broken play when the shot clock was falling down. I think while all 3 players are a cut above every one else--the best bet just might be Karl Towns. Now I wouldnt play him at 5 Id play him at 4---I DO NOT want Melo @ 4--Id rather see him come back as a slimmed down 3 man. It is becoming apparent that Towns is a little more diversified than Okafor and while Okafor might have the better offensive game---Towns overall game is a slight step above.
In terms of Phil Jackson--I have to think he see's Tonws--especially after watching the last 3 games--that Towns is much more of a 5 than Okafor and that for the style of play Towns makes slightly more sense. I may be wrong but I think that Towns might just be more valuable to us than Ok4
Didn't watch the game, but it looks like Stein had a strong game also. How did Towns look out of the double team. Did he make the right passes? Was he even doubled? OK4 is the focal point of every defense he plays against. Towns doesn't have to deal with that pressure. He's also had his coach question his maturity and heart at different times this season. OK4 is more of sure thing at this point. This offense needs someone who can score in the interior and OK4 fits the bill. The Am Jefferson comparisons are little off for OK4 because he's way more advanced than Jefferson was at the same age. Heck, I would argue that OK4 is already a better passer out of the post than Jefferson. Towns needs to continuing stepping up to grab the top spot from Ok4 in my opinion.
You are not watching the games if you think there is any ? about K-Towns heart and desire. The kid brings it every second, every game.
Calipari is just trying to bring the beast out in Towns. Towns is working very hard and playing hard --- Calipari is just trying to milk him for every ounce of talent/effort he can get. Only issue with Towns will be cured with time -- that is strength and just maturing. I'd like him to be a little quicker/explosive but he's athletic enough to wreak havoc.
fishmike wrote:Towns scares me and I will tell you why. So far I don't see an NBA motor. Skill set is there. Athleticism is there. Its just that he floats a ton. And when he gets fired and becomes a force on both ends he runs out of gas VERY quickly. That and he's got lousy hands. He gets tons of balls knocked away and often losses battles with much smaller players.Im torn. I 100% see all the upside the guys who are high on him see. Its there, it cant be denied. How much is Calipari "teaching" him and how much is he hiding him? I think his minutes may be restricted because he knows the kid cant play much more than half a game.
Im not sure OK4 has a lower ceiling either.. he's going to be a load as he gets stronger. Not built like a Karl Malone but a guy who is just a physical force and nightmare to guard. Like Zach on roids.
I would be equally "comfortable" taking either Ok4 or Russell in that order. They are NBA ready with HOF potential. Why do I need to wonder about Town's question marks when there are two star ponies staring me in the face?
I cant see how Towns should go before Russell or OK4. Then the debate is Muiday, Towns or that Euro kid who looks like an 8 foot Kukoc
No idea how you can question Town's motor -- really?
He actually has GREAT hands. In terms of balls being knocked out of his hands -- that is all about strength right now. He is still gangly and growing into his body -- the kid will continue to fill out his body and get stronger. That is really his primary issue right now and even with that -- he is avg over 11 boards his last 3 games.
LivingLegend wrote:BRIGGS wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Towns
12pts
13rebs
2blksBeautiful
Watched the whole game again. While Towns still needs base strength--if I knew I needed one shot ton win a game--that long soft jumphook in the post looks awfully high %. The guy is a big time rebounder and he can pass and hes a shot blocker. He also showed of a decent 16 footer on a broken play when the shot clock was falling down. I think while all 3 players are a cut above every one else--the best bet just might be Karl Towns. Now I wouldnt play him at 5 Id play him at 4---I DO NOT want Melo @ 4--Id rather see him come back as a slimmed down 3 man. It is becoming apparent that Towns is a little more diversified than Okafor and while Okafor might have the better offensive game---Towns overall game is a slight step above.
In terms of Phil Jackson--I have to think he see's Tonws--especially after watching the last 3 games--that Towns is much more of a 5 than Okafor and that for the style of play Towns makes slightly more sense. I may be wrong but I think that Towns might just be more valuable to us than Ok4
Yes Briggs -- you are starting to see this more clearly now.
Towns will fit on both ends of the court and he still has lots of room to fill out -- check out those size +20 feet of his he's dragging around.
If we pick Towns than Greg Monroe becomes a very nice fit next to him on the front line. Towns could off-set some of Monroe's shot blocking and perimeter shooting issues and both pass the ball very nicely. A Towns/Monroe/Melo front line would be a pretty nasty bunch.
Lots of ways you could go but ----- Towns can play.
Bottom line -- I think before this is all over -- there are 4 LEGIT prospects (I expect Mudiay to make a very significant push during workouts) and I also think S-Johnson and K-Porzingis are not far behind. I think S-Johnson could have HUGE NBA upside --- feel the same way about WCS just based on pace of the NBA game and spacing that will allow his unbelievably athleticism to shine.
I thought about that Towns and Monroe--that would certainly give you a safety base as a team to be good. But with Melo making 20mm--I wonder if holding on to the cash and trying to get KD in 2016 might be the best route. Towns needs a hard summer of training--he needs to get up to 255-257 with some more muscle in his legs
Towns 1yr ago
Towns now
Okafor now
I question Ok4's motor to play both ends. Conversely Towns plays with a great Motor on both ends. Especially when he is blocking shots and averaging double digit rebounds playing next to Stein.
No need to look much rather than the conditioning of both players. Towns takes his conditioning a lot more seriously. Probably eats better too.
If we take ok4 he will have all my support and I will hold for the best. But him and Melo don't exactly have the best NBA bodies. Both are bottom heavy, little muscle definition and don't have superior athletism. I'd worry about them defending elite NBA front courts. If we draft ok4 he better come into camp in shape. Imo it's a bit of a red flag with Ok4
Just to give you an idea
Tim Duncan at Wake Forest
Karl Malone
gunsnewing wrote:I question Ok4's motor to play both ends. Conversely Towns plays with a great Motor on both ends. Especially when he is blocking shots and averaging double digit rebounds playing next to Stein.No need to look much rather than the conditioning of both players. Towns takes his conditioning a lot more seriously. Probably eats better too.
If we take ok4 he will have all my support and I will hold for the best. But him and Melo don't exactly have the best NBA bodies. Both are bottom heavy, little muscle definition and don't have superior athletism. I'd worry about them defending elite NBA front courts. If we draft ok4 he better come into camp in shape
Draft OK4...and trade him. For russell or towns + a player or another pick.
Its really simple....the nba is not like football with a million rounds...The nba draft is all about potential. If they kept the old rules.....Ok4 wouldnt be in the top 5.....It wouldve been all HS and Euro guys. We only have 2 rounds. Use FA's to fill out your team.....and draft for POTENTIAL super stars.....not potential roll players.
blkexec wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I question Ok4's motor to play both ends. Conversely Towns plays with a great Motor on both ends. Especially when he is blocking shots and averaging double digit rebounds playing next to Stein.No need to look much rather than the conditioning of both players. Towns takes his conditioning a lot more seriously. Probably eats better too.
If we take ok4 he will have all my support and I will hold for the best. But him and Melo don't exactly have the best NBA bodies. Both are bottom heavy, little muscle definition and don't have superior athletism. I'd worry about them defending elite NBA front courts. If we draft ok4 he better come into camp in shape
Draft OK4...and trade him. For russell or towns + a player or another pick.
Ha that would be amazing but it would probably be for one of those guys and something like the 12th pick. Maybe at 12 there is steal from the guard position to be had.
Not going to happen though. The media is very lazy. The only guy on their radar is OK4 but that will change after the tournament and player workouts
blkexec wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I question Ok4's motor to play both ends. Conversely Towns plays with a great Motor on both ends. Especially when he is blocking shots and averaging double digit rebounds playing next to Stein.No need to look much rather than the conditioning of both players. Towns takes his conditioning a lot more seriously. Probably eats better too.
If we take ok4 he will have all my support and I will hold for the best. But him and Melo don't exactly have the best NBA bodies. Both are bottom heavy, little muscle definition and don't have superior athletism. I'd worry about them defending elite NBA front courts. If we draft ok4 he better come into camp in shape
Draft OK4...and trade him. For russell or towns + a player or another pick.
If we have the overall #1 and it's pre-arranged with the teams picking right after the #1 overall, I like this idea. We could net another solid draft pick or an additional role player.
LivingLegend wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:BRIGGS wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Towns
12pts
13rebs
2blksBeautiful
Watched the whole game again. While Towns still needs base strength--if I knew I needed one shot ton win a game--that long soft jumphook in the post looks awfully high %. The guy is a big time rebounder and he can pass and hes a shot blocker. He also showed of a decent 16 footer on a broken play when the shot clock was falling down. I think while all 3 players are a cut above every one else--the best bet just might be Karl Towns. Now I wouldnt play him at 5 Id play him at 4---I DO NOT want Melo @ 4--Id rather see him come back as a slimmed down 3 man. It is becoming apparent that Towns is a little more diversified than Okafor and while Okafor might have the better offensive game---Towns overall game is a slight step above.
In terms of Phil Jackson--I have to think he see's Tonws--especially after watching the last 3 games--that Towns is much more of a 5 than Okafor and that for the style of play Towns makes slightly more sense. I may be wrong but I think that Towns might just be more valuable to us than Ok4
Didn't watch the game, but it looks like Stein had a strong game also. How did Towns look out of the double team. Did he make the right passes? Was he even doubled? OK4 is the focal point of every defense he plays against. Towns doesn't have to deal with that pressure. He's also had his coach question his maturity and heart at different times this season. OK4 is more of sure thing at this point. This offense needs someone who can score in the interior and OK4 fits the bill. The Am Jefferson comparisons are little off for OK4 because he's way more advanced than Jefferson was at the same age. Heck, I would argue that OK4 is already a better passer out of the post than Jefferson. Towns needs to continuing stepping up to grab the top spot from Ok4 in my opinion.
You are not watching the games if you think there is any ? about K-Towns heart and desire. The kid brings it every second, every game.
Calipari is just trying to bring the beast out in Towns. Towns is working very hard and playing hard --- Calipari is just trying to milk him for every ounce of talent/effort he can get. Only issue with Towns will be cured with time -- that is strength and just maturing. I'd like him to be a little quicker/explosive but he's athletic enough to wreak havoc.
No I've seen Kentucky play and I've come away impressed and underwhelmed with Towns. I have not seen him bring every single game. Part of the reason was foul trouble. The other reason to was maturity.
gunsnewing wrote:I question Ok4's motor to play both ends. Conversely Towns plays with a great Motor on both ends. Especially when he is blocking shots and averaging double digit rebounds playing next to Stein.No need to look much rather than the conditioning of both players. Towns takes his conditioning a lot more seriously. Probably eats better too.
If we take ok4 he will have all my support and I will hold for the best. But him and Melo don't exactly have the best NBA bodies. Both are bottom heavy, little muscle definition and don't have superior athletism. I'd worry about them defending elite NBA front courts. If we draft ok4 he better come into camp in shape. Imo it's a bit of a red flag with Ok4
Yes, Towns is more defined but why just show action pics of Towns and then show a stationary pic of Okafor?
I would like to see the knicks take Russel or Towns but won't be mad if they take Okafor.
Ok4 is looking heavier as the season progresses. Maybe it's why he's wearing a tshirt underneath now i don't know. He is also bottom heavy which hurts his athleticism and lateral quickness defensively. Much like Melo but like Melo it helps him play bully ball. I agree I have no issue drafting Ok4 but I don't think the the sure fire best player fans are making him out to be. The next Duncan/Malone. Maybe somewhat close on the offensive end. Even the media only mentions him. Nothing on Towns or Russell but like I said they are lazy. Their tune will change after the tournament and player workouts.
P.S.
Find a smaller picture next time
gunsnewing wrote:P.S. Find a smaller picture next time
I've been editing since I posted. Had to do a quick google search on how to resize a jpeg. lol.
