How could we get fleeced that badly?
The raps were probably laughing their butts off when they asked for a 1st rounder and we said yes. They probably said something like "how about a first rounder" (meaning they'd pay a 1st to get bargs off the team) - and our owner said, sure why not, we'll throw one in. The raps were probably in disbelief.
Caseloads wrote:How could we get fleeced that badly?The raps were probably laughing their butts off when they asked for a 1st rounder and we said yes. They probably said something like "how about a first rounder" (meaning they'd pay a 1st to get bargs off the team) - and our owner said, sure why not, we'll throw one in. The raps were probably in disbelief.
This was destructive deal--just terrible for the team.
Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
I was going to say worse than Curry- at least Curry played and practiced even when he ballooned past 300+lbs.
But, I'm going to go a different direction.
I think its one of our better trades ever - because I think it was the breaking point for Dolan. It was the moment he woke up and realized he had a problem- an addiction to the instant fixes of trading draft picks to try to fix today problems that won't go away.
I think it may have also led Dolan to hire Phil- and while the jury is still out, we're at least seeing the start of a more proper rebuild- its overdue by a decade.
GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
Toronto is a very good team already and they're set up to receive the unprotected draft pick from the NBA's worst team. I know that (like always) our fans think we'll be a lot better next year but it's generally really good if you're going to receive the draft pick next year of this team's worst team. Going from worst team all the way to the playoffs in one season is uncommon.
franco12 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
I was going to say worse than Curry- at least Curry played and practiced even when he ballooned past 300+lbs.
But, I'm going to go a different direction.
I think its one of our better trades ever - because I think it was the breaking point for Dolan. It was the moment he woke up and realized he had a problem- an addiction to the instant fixes of trading draft picks to try to fix today problems that won't go away.
I think it may have also led Dolan to hire Phil- and while the jury is still out, we're at least seeing the start of a more proper rebuild- its overdue by a decade.
that is the silver lining. Far more damaging than any individual (bad) trade has been that has happened is that cancerous presence seems to have been banished for the time being.
I mean we gave up a pick for a guy who combined to play 66 games over the two prior seasons and was coming off career lows in almost every category. You just cant teach stupid. This was the breaking point.
franco12 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
I was going to say worse than Curry- at least Curry played and practiced even when he ballooned past 300+lbs.
But, I'm going to go a different direction.
I think its one of our better trades ever - because I think it was the breaking point for Dolan. It was the moment he woke up and realized he had a problem- an addiction to the instant fixes of trading draft picks to try to fix today problems that won't go away.
I think it may have also led Dolan to hire Phil- and while the jury is still out, we're at least seeing the start of a more proper rebuild- its overdue by a decade.
Yes, It did help us get rid of Isiah and move further away from the quick fix. As far as the impact Curry's deal had on the franchise at the time, Curry's overall attiude towards conditioning, the effort he put in on the floor, it tops the Bargs trade IMO.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
Toronto is a very good team already and they're set up to receive the unprotected draft pick from the NBA's worst team. I know that (like always) our fans think we'll be a lot better next year but it's generally really good if you're going to receive the draft pick next year of this team's worst team. Going from worst team all the way to the playoffs in one season is uncommon.The Cavs being .500 is a combination of all three of their big three have sub-par seasons and their having zero depth. Top teams' benches have 5 to 10 win shares at this point whereas the Cavs' are around 1.
I agree it definitely worked out better for Toronto. I thought the first round pick was overkill.
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
Toronto is a very good team already and they're set up to receive the unprotected draft pick from the NBA's worst team. I know that (like always) our fans think we'll be a lot better next year but it's generally really good if you're going to receive the draft pick next year of this team's worst team. Going from worst team all the way to the playoffs in one season is uncommon.The Cavs being .500 is a combination of all three of their big three have sub-par seasons and their having zero depth. Top teams' benches have 5 to 10 win shares at this point whereas the Cavs' are around 1.
I agree it definitely worked out better for Toronto. I thought the first round pick was overkill.
LOL - I put that part about the Cavs in the wrong thread. I actually typed it and then it seemed to have disappeared!
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Just brutal. On par with the Curry trade
Wouldnt go that far. Curry was a big fat albatross around the neck of this franchise for years. Bargs wont be around that long, and his deal wasn't nearly as bad.
Toronto is a very good team already and they're set up to receive the unprotected draft pick from the NBA's worst team. I know that (like always) our fans think we'll be a lot better next year but it's generally really good if you're going to receive the draft pick next year of this team's worst team. Going from worst team all the way to the playoffs in one season is uncommon.The Cavs being .500 is a combination of all three of their big three have sub-par seasons and their having zero depth. Top teams' benches have 5 to 10 win shares at this point whereas the Cavs' are around 1.
I agree it definitely worked out better for Toronto. I thought the first round pick was overkill.
LOL - I put that part about the Cavs in the wrong thread. I actually typed it and then it seemed to have disappeared!
LOL, I was wondering why you put that in there.
No one had any way of knowing Bargs was going to be injured the entire time he played here though. The thing that hurts most about this deal is not the first round pick, or lack of time Bargs spent on the court. It's the fact that we did not make the Lowry trade because of this trade. Dolan did not want to get screwed again, and instead didn't sign off on the one deal he should have. He saved Toronto from throwing in the towel and doing an old fashioned rebuild when he turned down the deal for Lowry. Hard to believe.
I try not to think about it. I remember at the time people thought it was the kind of trade IT would do. Ticks all the boxes- trading for an injury prone player, bidding against ourselves and failing to protect a pick (the only team in the nba that does this. It's like the Curry trade never happened- zero learning.
Knixkik wrote:No one had any way of knowing Bargs was going to be injured the entire time he played here though. The thing that hurts most about this deal is not the first round pick, or lack of time Bargs spent on the court. It's the fact that we did not make the Lowry trade because of this trade. Dolan did not want to get screwed again, and instead didn't sign off on the one deal he should have. He saved Toronto from throwing in the towel and doing an old fashioned rebuild when he turned down the deal for Lowry. Hard to believe.
No, but plenty of people knew Bargs sucked and was coming off multiple seasons of injury, declining stats, and career lows. This was an awful trade from the moment it went down and whenever I am reminded of it seriously ruins the next couple hours of my life. Now I have to go out on my lunch break and devour a bowl of ramen (extra noodles) to cheer myself up. 
smackeddog wrote:I try not to think about it. I remember at the time people thought it was the kind of trade IT would do. Ticks all the boxes- trading for an injury prone player, bidding against ourselves and failing to protect a pick (the only team in the nba that does this. It's like the Curry trade never happened- zero learning.
cant argue with a single point
The knicks are known for these type of trades. Basically if you are trying to get rid of a bad contract call the knicks because they will also throw in a first round pick
Knixkik wrote:No one had any way of knowing Bargs was going to be injured the entire time he played here though. The thing that hurts most about this deal is not the first round pick, or lack of time Bargs spent on the court. It's the fact that we did not make the Lowry trade because of this trade. Dolan did not want to get screwed again, and instead didn't sign off on the one deal he should have. He saved Toronto from throwing in the towel and doing an old fashioned rebuild when he turned down the deal for Lowry. Hard to believe.
what? Somebody on the knicks should have gone online and looked up his stats. One click is worth 50 million, no?
mreinman wrote:Knixkik wrote:No one had any way of knowing Bargs was going to be injured the entire time he played here though. The thing that hurts most about this deal is not the first round pick, or lack of time Bargs spent on the court. It's the fact that we did not make the Lowry trade because of this trade. Dolan did not want to get screwed again, and instead didn't sign off on the one deal he should have. He saved Toronto from throwing in the towel and doing an old fashioned rebuild when he turned down the deal for Lowry. Hard to believe.
what? Somebody on the knicks should have gone online and looked up his stats. One click is worth 50 million, no?
at least 4-5 clicks... and coming from a metrics guy. Cmon!
Hey.. cant revise history. For all we know the Lowry trade would have kept us out of this draft which will go down as the turning point in Knicks history and we can all laugh about the old days before OK4 was here. We will be OK. (I didnt type this, nixluva just mailed it to me)
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:Knixkik wrote:No one had any way of knowing Bargs was going to be injured the entire time he played here though. The thing that hurts most about this deal is not the first round pick, or lack of time Bargs spent on the court. It's the fact that we did not make the Lowry trade because of this trade. Dolan did not want to get screwed again, and instead didn't sign off on the one deal he should have. He saved Toronto from throwing in the towel and doing an old fashioned rebuild when he turned down the deal for Lowry. Hard to believe.
what? Somebody on the knicks should have gone online and looked up his stats. One click is worth 50 million, no?
at least 4-5 clicks... and coming from a metrics guy. Cmon!Hey.. cant revise history. For all we know the Lowry trade would have kept us out of this draft which will go down as the turning point in Knicks history and we can all laugh about the old days before OK4 was here. We will be OK. (I didnt type this, nixluva just mailed it to me)
thats funny 
I was thinking that you were channeling Nixluva and then I read that you did.
Caseloads wrote:How could we get fleeced that badly?The raps were probably laughing their butts off when they asked for a 1st rounder and we said yes. They probably said something like "how about a first rounder" (meaning they'd pay a 1st to get bargs off the team) - and our owner said, sure why not, we'll throw one in. The raps were probably in disbelief.
HAHA! Too funny, man! You're probably spot on. God, imagine if it went down like that?? We're such idiots...We whiffed so badly on this trade, I can't even believe it. WOW..ZERO return. Less than zero, what am I talking about... I betcha Bargnani is done in the NBA after this year. DONESKY!!! Watch this dude run back to Europe, never to be heard from again. Joke. 
Good point Fish/Nix on not making the Lowry deal btw. He would've helped us but there would've been no way were would be talking about a top 1-3 pick right now with Lowry on board. That's how I feel about the Chandler trade too in a way (not looking like a great trade so far on paper but not making it and having Tyson would've equated to more wins and a worse pick come June) and about Bargnani going down every time you turn around this year (at this point, just stay "hurt" Bargs -- thanks for nothing, buddy. Literally. LOL. Imagine if this guy makes it back soon and we start winning?? Jesus, talk about the unthinkable, right?). All of these factors would've added more wins but not nearly enough wins and that = the worst possibly place you wanna be in the NBA in our situation. It's no man's land...Hopefully we end up with a top pick that works out for us and we wind up having the last laugh regarding this whole string of bad calls. Fingers crossed fellas..
