Knicks · The jr smith and Shumpert influence on the team (page 2)

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Blaming JR abd Shump for this is weak and wrong...We won the first two of three games this year and articles were out almost ushering Fisher into the HOF..Knick fans were starting thread canonizing Fisher...We won tree games and it's JR and Shump's fault??...Come on...

JR was the second best player on the Knicks team which is a bigger indictment on the Knicks talent level...Now JR is the 4th best option on Cleveland, which is much more suitable. How many teams have a 4th option as offensively talented as JR? When JR was off with the Knicks, we had trouble scoring...If JR is off with Cleve, they can still win, but he's on, he can push them over the top....A healthy Cavs team is going to be dangerous come May.

You nailed it...Fans don't get it...JR Smith should be your 4th option not your 2nd, period...

So then you agree that jr was a cancer to this team or nah. He was our second option and he in turn brought the team down. We lost talent and now all of a sudden we ate playing better. Not a coincidence.

JR is a scapegoat..We beat the Pelicans without Anthony Davis, beat the Sixer then Magic and now we are good??

Exactly, I can't believe some people apparently think that we've turned the season around after beating 3 terrible teams in a row.

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Blaming JR abd Shump for this is weak and wrong...We won the first two of three games this year and articles were out almost ushering Fisher into the HOF..Knick fans were starting thread canonizing Fisher...We won tree games and it's JR and Shump's fault??...Come on...

JR was the second best player on the Knicks team which is a bigger indictment on the Knicks talent level...Now JR is the 4th best option on Cleveland, which is much more suitable. How many teams have a 4th option as offensively talented as JR? When JR was off with the Knicks, we had trouble scoring...If JR is off with Cleve, they can still win, but he's on, he can push them over the top....A healthy Cavs team is going to be dangerous come May.

You nailed it...Fans don't get it...JR Smith should be your 4th option not your 2nd, period...

So then you agree that jr was a cancer to this team or nah. He was our second option and he in turn brought the team down. We lost talent and now all of a sudden we ate playing better. Not a coincidence.

JR is a scapegoat..We beat the Pelicans without Anthony Davis, beat the Sixer then Magic and now we are good??

I wouldnt call JR a scapegoat...dude was an issue. but some of that is on the team as well. They never looked for better options because they always viewed JR to be that better option.

JR can easily be a teams 5 best player, problem here was he was at times our third and even worst our second. Shumpert is different, but he was a role player being touted as a lock down starter.

thats on the team moreso than the players

It's exactly as Uptown called it..JR can't be your top two player...He has the talent for it but not the mental makeup and I mean in the sense of the off the court issues, JR isnt stupid just immature..But we can still use that...We are paying him like a 4th option so it's ok...If 2 of your top 3 players are off and JR shows up you can win..If only two guys are on and JR shows up, you win...That's what Cleveland expects and they will be successful with that formula..

I knew the 54 win team couldn't go far as JR Smith as it's number two..I was posting it all season saying Melo needs help...But w can't sit here and blame him for not getting there...He wasn't paid for that and he isn't that kind of all around player..I think he was making 2.7 mil per that season....I mean, let's be fair...

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:Blaming JR abd Shump for this is weak and wrong...We won the first two of three games this year and articles were out almost ushering Fisher into the HOF..Knick fans were starting thread canonizing Fisher...We won tree games and it's JR and Shump's fault??...Come on...

JR was the second best player on the Knicks team which is a bigger indictment on the Knicks talent level...Now JR is the 4th best option on Cleveland, which is much more suitable. How many teams have a 4th option as offensively talented as JR? When JR was off with the Knicks, we had trouble scoring...If JR is off with Cleve, they can still win, but he's on, he can push them over the top....A healthy Cavs team is going to be dangerous come May.

You nailed it...Fans don't get it...JR Smith should be your 4th option not your 2nd, period...

So then you agree that jr was a cancer to this team or nah. He was our second option and he in turn brought the team down. We lost talent and now all of a sudden we ate playing better. Not a coincidence.

JR is a scapegoat..We beat the Pelicans without Anthony Davis, beat the Sixer then Magic and now we are good??

I wouldnt call JR a scapegoat...dude was an issue. but some of that is on the team as well. They never looked for better options because they always viewed JR to be that better option.

JR can easily be a teams 5 best player, problem here was he was at times our third and even worst our second. Shumpert is different, but he was a role player being touted as a lock down starter.

thats on the team moreso than the players

Yep

I despised Smith because of character issues

And inability to think the game through while here

But we always thought more than necessary of him as a franchise

We've done this with almost all of our players acquired Melo included

And we haven't proven in more than over a decade

We can properly develop young talent where it benefits our team and not someone else

JR and Shump both have serious flaws. JR is crazy talented and Shump pretty much is just not good.

The knicks did not suck because of them. They sucked because we don't have a PG, have a selfish star, and have no real bigs.

Those guys are bench players who should not be relied on in prime roles

BUMP!!

I thought these bumps only happened for Gallinari and Lin.

CrushAlot wrote:I thought these bumps only happened for Gallinari and Lin.

Seems you thought wrong...Smackeddog needed to see that some folks aren't just posting for the moment as he seems to be stating..

Come back Eny, been a while since I schooled your sorry ass

I would label JR a cancer, but not Shump. JR has the ability to singlehandedly torpedo the team at will, almost did the same thing in Cleveland. Shump was just underperforming throughout most of his time here. He didnt make waves, do stupid stuff. Just needed to get away from NY and worry less about his brand and more about his game.

As strange thread to bump- this one was the main one:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

smackeddog wrote:As strange thread to bump- this one was the main one:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

It's not strange at all...Just showing you the message was consistent through out when Phil traded JR and Shump..U are starting threads claiming hypocrisy, aren't you..

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:As strange thread to bump- this one was the main one:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

It's not strange at all...Just showing you the message was consistent through out when Phil traded JR and Shump..U are starting threads claiming hypocrisy, aren't you..

Also, I would like to add my comments from that main thread:

I think it's a great trade for the Cavs- I think Shump will play well for them and they get a first. Only risk is adding another chucker in JR to a team full of guys who need the ball.

Ha, and ESPN's:

From ESPN

Good trade or bad trade for the Knicks?

Begley: Good trade for New York -- but obviously not for this season. New York rid themselves of Smith's $6.4 million contract option in 2015-16, which opens up more cap space and opportunities to chase free agents. You can argue that the Knicks had better offers on the table in the past for Shumpert, but there's little doubt that Phil Jackson put his club in a strong position to improve in free agency this summer.

Elhassan: Good because as the only team that can confidently say "we're worse than the Sixers," the Knicks basically have no other recourse for this season other than to ensure their pick is as high as possible. Losing Shumpert was the cost of getting rid of Smith's cap hit for next year ($6.4 million), giving the Knicks more flexibility to go big-game hunting.

McMenamin: It's good. They weren't going anywhere this season other than the lottery and Jackson and Derek Fisher gave the roster half a season to figure out who they were ready to uproot to plant new seeds. They'll now have close to $30 million to play with this summer on the free-agent market. Now, is it a good thing overall for the state of the Knicks franchise that they just signed Carmelo Anthony to a max extension this summer and he could be shutting it down with a knee injury while Jackson is getting paid $12 million to pull the strings on this disaster of a season? That's a different question.

Shelburne: Great trade for the Knicks. They created $7 million in salary cap space in this trade and rid themselves of a guy who had been a square peg in the triangle offense Jackson and Fisher have been trying to teach. Yes, they lose Shumpert, a good young player they had interest in retaining this summer. But the Knicks could have lost him via restricted free agency anyway, and they had to give up something to get rid of Smith and his contract without taking back a bad contract in return.

Young: Good. The Knicks dumped Smith's contract and personality, two things that are a start to putting out the dumpster fire that resides in Madison Square Garden. The Knicks are showing at least somewhat of an eye for the future, bringing in nonguaranteed deals to open up a little future financial flexibility.

smackeddog wrote:Ha, and ESPN's:

From ESPN

Good trade or bad trade for the Knicks?

Begley: Good trade for New York -- but obviously not for this season. New York rid themselves of Smith's $6.4 million contract option in 2015-16, which opens up more cap space and opportunities to chase free agents. You can argue that the Knicks had better offers on the table in the past for Shumpert, but there's little doubt that Phil Jackson put his club in a strong position to improve in free agency this summer.

Elhassan: Good because as the only team that can confidently say "we're worse than the Sixers," the Knicks basically have no other recourse for this season other than to ensure their pick is as high as possible. Losing Shumpert was the cost of getting rid of Smith's cap hit for next year ($6.4 million), giving the Knicks more flexibility to go big-game hunting.

McMenamin: It's good. They weren't going anywhere this season other than the lottery and Jackson and Derek Fisher gave the roster half a season to figure out who they were ready to uproot to plant new seeds. They'll now have close to $30 million to play with this summer on the free-agent market. Now, is it a good thing overall for the state of the Knicks franchise that they just signed Carmelo Anthony to a max extension this summer and he could be shutting it down with a knee injury while Jackson is getting paid $12 million to pull the strings on this disaster of a season? That's a different question.

Shelburne: Great trade for the Knicks. They created $7 million in salary cap space in this trade and rid themselves of a guy who had been a square peg in the triangle offense Jackson and Fisher have been trying to teach. Yes, they lose Shumpert, a good young player they had interest in retaining this summer. But the Knicks could have lost him via restricted free agency anyway, and they had to give up something to get rid of Smith and his contract without taking back a bad contract in return.

Young: Good. The Knicks dumped Smith's contract and personality, two things that are a start to putting out the dumpster fire that resides in Madison Square Garden. The Knicks are showing at least somewhat of an eye for the future, bringing in nonguaranteed deals to open up a little future financial flexibility.

My take is that the Knicks won't get the value of Shump and Smith talent in the off season at that price..Bringing in Calzone means trading players of talent to free cap space..Phil seems to be selling players at their lowest point...Phil has to be looking further into the future while making better decisions..I really get the feeling that ego plays a part of it too..I think he is saying I'm Phil Jackson, and I want this player gone...Other teams knows this and just low ball him..He wanted Kobe traded while he was coaching the Lakers..

Jr smith and shump are talented, inconsistent players who will perform well in the right situation. We never doubted their talent. They are followers. They will perform well when the team is good, and be headcases and wastes when they aren't in an ideal situation. That is what they are and will always be.

Knixkik wrote:Jr smith and shump are talented, inconsistent players who will perform well in the right situation. We never doubted their talent. They are followers. They will perform well when the team is good, and be headcases and wastes when they aren't in an ideal situation. That is what they are and will always be.

Papabear Says

If Smith and Shumpet waren't on the Cav's they have no chance of winning a championship.
Phil Jackson must realize that the game has changed since he won those rings. Other teams a laughing about Jackson's triangle. It turns players off.