Knicks · I like that we have carmelo (page 4)

F500ONE wrote:Also did Pierce ever make $23-25mil/yr when Boston was rebuilding around him?

the truth earned 16 million the year they won it all.
ray allen earned 16 million the year they won it all.
kevin garnett got 23.5 million the year they won it all-- and put up franchise player stats:

BPM was 6.7
usg:ast was 1.28:1 for a power forward!
TS% 58.8 which is elite for a midrange shooter
19ppg and 9rbds

leadership and top hustle stat player.

who the frickfrack is going to come here and play "with" melo and settle for 16-18 million?

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Also did Pierce ever make $23-25mil/yr when Boston was rebuilding around him?

the truth earned 16 million the year they won it all.
ray allen earned 16 million the year they won it all.
kevin garnett got 23.5 million the year they won it all-- and put up franchise player stats:

BPM was 6.7
usg:ast was 1.28:1 for a power forward!
TS% 58.8 which is elite for a midrange shooter
19ppg and 9rbds

leadership and top hustle stat player.

who the frickfrack is going to come here and play "with" melo and settle for 16-18 million?

Well actually there might be a couple players

Who'll come here for $16-18mil/yr

They are//////

Greg "Show Out" Monroe

&

Goran "The Next Nash" Dragic

How does that trio stack up against Boston

Since rebuilding around Pierce is comparable

Does Melo/Dragic/Monroe/Okafor beat Perce/Rondo/Garnett/Allen

How will it stack up with the rest of the league that's improved a ton since

Boston won becuase they were in a postion to draft Rondo, who was a rookie and he was a big piece!!!

And Rondo got to be Rondo becuase of the solid foundation that was Pierce, Ray, Garnett.

Im convinced if BIg Baby and Rondo asked to be core players in NY would have sucked.
Boston won because it had depth around that core. Miami went to the finals 4 years in a row with the best player on the planet, but when Cole, Miller, or anyone but the big three stepped up it was how they got to that next level.
When their depth failed, they were unable to finish a finals for a win.

Carmelo or any other player on the knicks on the team the last 4 years would not have done much better except Lebron (facilitor).

Melo on Denver???? Im not sure their inability to get to the finals or succeed more is really about JUST MELO!
Most of us don't think Melo is MVP mooby starphuch god.

I think for the 8 of Hate its about Money. "Max money expectations"???? Jordan was paid 30 million 15 years ago. Today he could only earn Kobe Money, 24mil. Thats a 20% pay cut AND 15 years inflation!!!!!!
Its not that Melo is worth Lebron money, its that Lebron can't be paid anymore than he does!

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Also did Pierce ever make $23-25mil/yr when Boston was rebuilding around him?

the truth earned 16 million the year they won it all.
ray allen earned 16 million the year they won it all.
kevin garnett got 23.5 million the year they won it all-- and put up franchise player stats:

You do realise that the salary cap was lower back then. As a percentage of cap, PP and Allen's $16mil was 29%, which is pretty much the same as Melo's (Melo's is about 33% this season, and then it drops as a percentage as the salary cap rockets- so by year 3 he's actually earning less as a percentage than those 2.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:The big issue for is what position he is able to play. Not sure he can play significant minutes defending at SF- he is going to be worn out chasing certain SFs. He should be more comfortable dealing with stretch 4s on D, and his lower body is strong enough for him to hold his own down in the block.

I know he is injured, but I thought he started getting his shots blocked more frequently last year, too, and lets face it, the refs seem to give him little respect when he goes to the basket and there is contact.

His future position has to influence future FA signings and perhaps draft strategies, IMO.

he's always been a tweener on defense, it's been one of the major problems in his game his entire nba career. this flaw cannot be a hindrance to building a contender as he ages and starts breaking down... he'll be exposed in the playoffs and the team compromised. that's the other side of the "he's the most versatile scorer in the league" coin.

I don't know of any teams that start rebuilding around

A 30yr old 1-way player, who's even 1 dimensional in his 1-way play

If that even makes any sense

You keep saying things like this as if it actually has some meaning. The Knicks are not actually building around Melo as the centerpiece. He's a Part of the Core, but he's not going to be the sole focus of the team. That's the entire focus of Phil's philosophy. It won't be about one guy. As i've said over and over, Melo is one player out of 15 and for this team to be successful we need quality beyond just one player. The idea is to build a team that can win even if Melo was out for a stretch of time. Phil has to build a good overall team period. Melo is only one part of the puzzle.

It's not a very difficult thing to understand so I have to assume that you and others who keep pushing this crap are just being obtuse. You know damn well that it's entirely possible to build a good team regardless of Melo's presence on the roster. It starts with a good draft. Good free agent signings and continuing to develop prospects. This is no different than it is for any team so why are the Knicks somehow exempt from being able to put a good team together?

If Melo could be on a team that won 54 games and got to the WCF's, then it just proves that it's not impossible to put a team together around him that can win. Billups, Nene, Kenyon and JR isn't so spectacular a group that we can't put together a better core of talent. The talent level of that core isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

I was making a very astute observation

No need for you to be rude and beligerent

You're deliberately mischaracterizing the Knicks situation. They aren't so much building around Melo as if he's the center piece as they are building a good team with Melo as a part of it. You know there's a distinct difference.

It's not clear which is dumber: Giving Melo the largest contract on the planet to build around him or giving the largest contract on the planet to a player you don't even plan to build around.

Well said.

Given the money we have to pay him and the impact this will have on future player acquisitions, it seems clear to me that a Melo supporter has to support the "we will build around him- he is our center piece" philosophy. If anyone thinks Anthony is not a guy to build around, but is still worthy of the contract he got, they are fools, without question.

Nalod wrote:Boston won becuase they were in a postion to draft Rondo, who was a rookie and he was a big piece!!!

And Rondo got to be Rondo becuase of the solid foundation that was Pierce, Ray, Garnett.

Im convinced if BIg Baby and Rondo asked to be core players in NY would have sucked.
Boston won because it had depth around that core. Miami went to the finals 4 years in a row with the best player on the planet, but when Cole, Miller, or anyone but the big three stepped up it was how they got to that next level.
When their depth failed, they were unable to finish a finals for a win.

Carmelo or any other player on the knicks on the team the last 4 years would not have done much better except Lebron (facilitor).

Melo on Denver???? Im not sure their inability to get to the finals or succeed more is really about JUST MELO!
Most of us don't think Melo is MVP mooby starphuch god.

I think for the 8 of Hate its about Money. "Max money expectations"???? Jordan was paid 30 million 15 years ago. Today he could only earn Kobe Money, 24mil. Thats a 20% pay cut AND 15 years inflation!!!!!!
Its not that Melo is worth Lebron money, its that Lebron can't be paid anymore than he does!

remove the cap and make sure not a single contract is guaranteed.

That would be awesome but will never happen. Even then we would screw things up

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Also did Pierce ever make $23-25mil/yr when Boston was rebuilding around him?

the truth earned 16 million the year they won it all.
ray allen earned 16 million the year they won it all.
kevin garnett got 23.5 million the year they won it all-- and put up franchise player stats:

You do realise that the salary cap was lower back then. As a percentage of cap, PP and Allen's $16mil was 29%, which is pretty much the same as Melo's (Melo's is about 33% this season, and then it drops as a percentage as the salary cap rockets- so by year 3 he's actually earning less as a percentage than those 2.

I think Melo is 35% of the cap. And we even through in a no-trade clause. And he's not remotely as good as these future hall-of-famers

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:Boston won becuase they were in a postion to draft Rondo, who was a rookie and he was a big piece!!!

And Rondo got to be Rondo becuase of the solid foundation that was Pierce, Ray, Garnett.

Im convinced if BIg Baby and Rondo asked to be core players in NY would have sucked.
Boston won because it had depth around that core. Miami went to the finals 4 years in a row with the best player on the planet, but when Cole, Miller, or anyone but the big three stepped up it was how they got to that next level.
When their depth failed, they were unable to finish a finals for a win.

Carmelo or any other player on the knicks on the team the last 4 years would not have done much better except Lebron (facilitor).

Melo on Denver???? Im not sure their inability to get to the finals or succeed more is really about JUST MELO!
Most of us don't think Melo is MVP mooby starphuch god.

I think for the 8 of Hate its about Money. "Max money expectations"???? Jordan was paid 30 million 15 years ago. Today he could only earn Kobe Money, 24mil. Thats a 20% pay cut AND 15 years inflation!!!!!!
Its not that Melo is worth Lebron money, its that Lebron can't be paid anymore than he does!

remove the cap and make sure not a single contract is guaranteed.

Which they may push for in 2017

Until then the examples some are trying to latch on to

They're going Back to The Future so Phil can play catchup

In the rebuilding process present

I find it comical some get offended when Melo is referred to as a

3rd or 4th option on a really good team[e.g. Bulls "Best Fit for Me"]<-------straight from a Pack Mula's face

Isn't that who we should be trying to emulate, the Bulls and not Denver-Boston-Dallas-cHeat or whatever pipedream comparisons made here

Yet if you say it doesn't make sense to rebuild around him at 30yrs of age

They then dumb him down to a piece to build with, you know a 3rd or 4th piece

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

I think you guys missed a word

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

because he is our "problem". i dont worry about injuries to other teams max cats. if kobe was here instead of anthony and breaking down as kobe has been recent seasons, i suspect he would be buried for it.

sidsanders wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

because he is our "problem". i dont worry about injuries to other teams max cats. if kobe was here instead of anthony and breaking down as kobe has been recent seasons, i suspect he would be buried for it.

There is no way the Lakers should have given Kobe that contract. Kobe has all the money in the world. Look at Dirk Nowitzky & Tim Duncan. They've been paid, and now taking less.

If I had been Dolan, I would have given Melo a very different contract - maybe 4 years, $20m. And I would have happily gone before the media if Melo left to explain my reasoning to the fans.

Melo may yet play out a significant number of games for us, and play at a high level.

I'm just worried that we're seeing H20/Stat Version 2 here soon, with alternative games off for 'Maintenance'. What the F is that?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

I think you guys missed a word

i think you've missed alot more than just a word.

As a fan I can't control what the team pays its players. I think at the time there were good teams willing to pay melo substantial money.Could the Knicks who paid such a massive price in acquiring CA just let him go? I understand we are paying melo the most but to me that's not saying we need to build around melo. We can build a team within a team concept and melo not as a centerpiece but rather a part of the puzzle. By the time anyone we draft this year is eligible for their 2nd contract Melos contact will be up. We have a ton of cash to spend we should get a great player from the draft and free agency. We have started to build a foundation of team role players.We have a nice chance to look at a lot of players the next 40 games. Melo needs to get that surgery and we need to add a couple of assets going into the draft. We have 40 more games to look at the Kanters Monroe's etc.. with an open mind and then we can make good aggressive decisions when the time comes. I don't see us building around any one player but rather building a team . Also I'm not assuming PJ even acquires 1 high end free agent this year. It may happen but Phil might like to hold the flexibility its a wait and see. I'm assuming he will use the cap space in our best interests.

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

I think you guys missed a word

i think you've missed alot more than just a word.

from someone who thought this roster would be a great time

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Melo isn't an emotional leader or an intangible dirty work type of guy. He is what he is which is one if the toughest covers in the league. A good team consist of players that cover each others weaknesses. Rather then depending on one guy to be a teams everthing. Derek Fisher was a role player and never made 10mil per season. But was one of the leadership figures on the champiobship Lakers team. Our draft pick should be our talent grabber while some of the money should go to a 3rd talent. The rest of the team should be about. Leadership, hard work, professionalism but guys who are contagious with it.

listen you make a great, valid, inarguable point. good teams manage to find ways to cover weaknesses of one another (and enhance strengths). my issue is you just don't pay one player 25 million who is as profoundly flawed as melo is. what we have here is a virtually impossible situation, a very very deep hole that many posters seem to think the knickerbockers will be able to dig themselves out of... with the goal of winning a title with melo in a knick uniform.

the amount of sheer inertia that his salary and his game have on a team is immense.

One thing that benefits us is that players with leadership cappabilities don't need to be expensive. Neither do professional or hardworking team guys. The areas that cost money is talent. So basically we have to hit on our draft pick which is cost effective talent. And we have to hit on a great signing with our cap space. We basically need a Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups type signing and an Amare type hit on our draft pick. We have a ability to be able to land either or both which is all we can ask for.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Melo isn't an emotional leader or an intangible dirty work type of guy. He is what he is which is one if the toughest covers in the league. A good team consist of players that cover each others weaknesses. Rather then depending on one guy to be a teams everthing. Derek Fisher was a role player and never made 10mil per season. But was one of the leadership figures on the champiobship Lakers team. Our draft pick should be our talent grabber while some of the money should go to a 3rd talent. The rest of the team should be about. Leadership, hard work, professionalism but guys who are contagious with it.

listen you make a great, valid, inarguable point. good teams manage to find ways to cover weaknesses of one another (and enhance strengths). my issue is you just don't pay one player 25 million who is as profoundly flawed as melo is. what we have here is a virtually impossible situation, a very very deep hole that many posters seem to think the knickerbockers will be able to dig themselves out of... with the goal of winning a title with melo in a knick uniform.

the amount of sheer inertia that his salary and his game have on a team is immense.

One thing that benefits us is that players with leadership cappabilities don't need to be expensive. Neither do professional or hardworking team guys. The areas that cost money is talent. So basically we have to hit on our draft pick which is cost effective talent. And we have to hit on a great signing with our cap space. We basically need a Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups type signing and an Amare type hit on our draft pick. We have a ability to be able to land either or both which is all we can ask for.

again you make a good point-- good leadership need not come at a high price-- in fact, when we had kurt thomas, rasheed wallace, jason kidd, even kenyon martin-- that was enough to solidify the team that season, and i will emphasize how important kidd was those first 35 games or so.

but that was then, and the median age of those cats was probably 37. this is now: are you saying there are players with that kind of leadership, ballast, charisma, game, AND who are in the prime of their careers-- that can overcome the anthinay inertia?

Nalod wrote:Boston won becuase they were in a postion to draft Rondo, who was a rookie and he was a big piece!!!

And Rondo got to be Rondo becuase of the solid foundation that was Pierce, Ray, Garnett.

Im convinced if BIg Baby and Rondo asked to be core players in NY would have sucked.
Boston won because it had depth around that core. Miami went to the finals 4 years in a row with the best player on the planet, but when Cole, Miller, or anyone but the big three stepped up it was how they got to that next level.
When their depth failed, they were unable to finish a finals for a win.

Carmelo or any other player on the knicks on the team the last 4 years would not have done much better except Lebron (facilitor).

Melo on Denver???? Im not sure their inability to get to the finals or succeed more is really about JUST MELO!
Most of us don't think Melo is MVP mooby starphuch god.

I think for the 8 of Hate its about Money. "Max money expectations"???? Jordan was paid 30 million 15 years ago. Today he could only earn Kobe Money, 24mil. Thats a 20% pay cut AND 15 years inflation!!!!!!
Its not that Melo is worth Lebron money, its that Lebron can't be paid anymore than he does!

8 of Hate. Are you replacing the term 'Somber'? Wow, and there used to be only six of them.

Apparently applying percentages doesn't apply in this instance.
Boston also had some fabulous interfranchise collusion going on between Ainge and McHale that this franchise is never going to experience. Everyone hates us, just ask ESPN.

It's not the Melo is MVP GOAT Mooby Idol, it's just that he's the best player we've had since Spree. Was Spree making everyone on the team better? Would he be dragging the likes of Fishlips and Toney D to the playoffs? Not likely.

Lebron could have come here. He didn't. CP3 could have come here, he didn't

Amare came here and blew up after a few months of outright offensive domination.

Sorry folks, but Mooby is all we got. Would I like it if he was averaging triple doubles? You betcha. Would that be getting us anywhere with this crew of broken down uselessness and yootful/journeymen pipedreams? Not likely. Would we be living the 2nd round high life and threatening to go to the ECF if Dolan didn't do the Dirty Deed 5 years ago?

Please stop kidding yourselves.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Carmelo is 30 years old.

He has played 30,067 minutes in his career.

How much is left in the tank.

Yes, a Mercedes with 100k miles might be better than a brand new hyundai.

But not if it breaks down...

Any player can "break down" (see Derrick rose) I guess Russell Westbrook is Broken down too since he's been injured alot. if that's what we're really calling melo now...broken down? a little exaggerate no?

This is what everyone goes for first when speaking negatively about Melo. He's "broken down" because he is not playing 82 games a season and has been in the league for many years. But like you said, there are other players who get injured too. For some reason Melo is held at a higher standard where he is not allowed to get injured or he is broken down and on the decline.

I think you guys missed a word

i think you've missed alot more than just a word.

from someone who thought this roster would be a great time

i have no interest in having a great time with anyone on this roster. sorry pal.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Melo isn't an emotional leader or an intangible dirty work type of guy. He is what he is which is one if the toughest covers in the league. A good team consist of players that cover each others weaknesses. Rather then depending on one guy to be a teams everthing. Derek Fisher was a role player and never made 10mil per season. But was one of the leadership figures on the champiobship Lakers team. Our draft pick should be our talent grabber while some of the money should go to a 3rd talent. The rest of the team should be about. Leadership, hard work, professionalism but guys who are contagious with it.

listen you make a great, valid, inarguable point. good teams manage to find ways to cover weaknesses of one another (and enhance strengths). my issue is you just don't pay one player 25 million who is as profoundly flawed as melo is. what we have here is a virtually impossible situation, a very very deep hole that many posters seem to think the knickerbockers will be able to dig themselves out of... with the goal of winning a title with melo in a knick uniform.

the amount of sheer inertia that his salary and his game have on a team is immense.

One thing that benefits us is that players with leadership cappabilities don't need to be expensive. Neither do professional or hardworking team guys. The areas that cost money is talent. So basically we have to hit on our draft pick which is cost effective talent. And we have to hit on a great signing with our cap space. We basically need a Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups type signing and an Amare type hit on our draft pick. We have a ability to be able to land either or both which is all we can ask for.

again you make a good point-- good leadership need not come at a high price-- in fact, when we had kurt thomas, rasheed wallace, jason kidd, even kenyon martin-- that was enough to solidify the team that season, and i will emphasize how important kidd was those first 35 games or so.

but that was then, and the median age of those cats was probably 37. this is now: are you saying there are players with that kind of leadership, ballast, charisma, game, AND who are in the prime of their careers-- that can overcome the anthinay inertia?

This I don't know. But Phil should be turning over every rock in order to find them. They also don't have to be prime. Just not over the hill. Like Kidd in Dallas wasn't prime but he wasn't over the hill. Same with Shawn Marion. Of course I don't know if we will be able to land that level of talent with leadership or dirty work capabilities.