FistOfOakley wrote:I just get flashbacks of Lin and the grumblings that some no name Asian kid was stealing his shine... If Russell comes here...make no mistake.. He will be the star...
Grumblings from who?
Uptown wrote:mreinman wrote:Uptown wrote:mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:I'm quietly hoping the Knicks don't get the #1 pick so we can take this kid. I really believe he's going to come right in and be an impact player.
can we appreciate his value in the triangle?
still think that Phil is gonna to go for a big for his triangle. who knows ...
Absolutely...He's a great facilitator, passer and can shoot it with range. He can be a Pippen type player for us. The ultimate bonus is he seems to be a leader which is an area we desperately need....
I don't think that he is anything like Pippen.
Pippen was a great defender and a mediocre shooter.
Russell is the opposite.
Russell seems to be the type of player that would shine in a more modern offense.
I think you are misinterpreting what I was trying to say. No, his all around game isn't like Pippen, but in the triangle offense, he can be a facilitator, sort of like Pippen was. He has the passing ability and court awareness to play point and make the game easier for others, but when he's hot, he can also play off the ball if need be....
Pippen, Jordan and Kobe were all big and (super) elite defenders.
He may do ok in the triangle but I would like to see the precedent or the comparison. Pippen, kobe and jordan could all post up too, Russel does not seem big enough (yet).
The Triangle is infinitely flexible. I don't know why this hasn't gotten thru yet, but it's not as stodgy as people think. Whatever you want to feature as a team strength can be featured. Pushing the ball looking for early offense is part of the Triangle offense but you have to have the personnel. PnR, Give n Go, down screens etc. are all part of the Triangle. You can tilt the offense in whatever direction you need to. If we have no PG then you can still run the offense. If you have a SG who is more of a combo guard then you can feature him just as well in this offense. There are actually more passing angles and possibilities in the Triangle.
The more talented your SG and SF are the more you can actually do. The Triangle isn't as geared towards a ball dominant player but it isn't going to limit a talented SG or SF as much as it seems. It can liberate the SG/SF to be more creative and attack quickly due to the motion in the offense. The SG/SF doesn't have to dribble so much just to gain an advantage on his defender. The motion and screens create open shots and lanes to attack. Quick Shooters like Steph or Russell should have a field day taking open shots in the Triangle. Just gets them in a different way than in the spread offense. If you don't have a lot of reliable 3pt shooters it's hard to play the Spread offense of MDA or GS.
mreinman wrote:Uptown wrote:mreinman wrote:Uptown wrote:mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:I'm quietly hoping the Knicks don't get the #1 pick so we can take this kid. I really believe he's going to come right in and be an impact player.
can we appreciate his value in the triangle?
still think that Phil is gonna to go for a big for his triangle. who knows ...
Absolutely...He's a great facilitator, passer and can shoot it with range. He can be a Pippen type player for us. The ultimate bonus is he seems to be a leader which is an area we desperately need....
I don't think that he is anything like Pippen.
Pippen was a great defender and a mediocre shooter.
Russell is the opposite.
Russell seems to be the type of player that would shine in a more modern offense.
I think you are misinterpreting what I was trying to say. No, his all around game isn't like Pippen, but in the triangle offense, he can be a facilitator, sort of like Pippen was. He has the passing ability and court awareness to play point and make the game easier for others, but when he's hot, he can also play off the ball if need be....
Pippen, Jordan and Kobe were all big and (super) elite defenders.
He may do ok in the triangle but I would like to see the precedent or the comparison. Pippen, kobe and jordan could all post up too, Russel does not seem big enough (yet).
Yet is the key, and he is already very tall for a PG. He could still be growing and will likely add more bulk and definitely more strength. I guess there is a slight chance he stays away from the gym and stays skinny ala Jamal Crawford but I doubt it. Also, it took years before Kobe, Jordan, and Pippen added a post game.
Also, I get that having a precedent helps but if you have an all around game you can fit in any system. Who set the precedent for Gasol? Plus, they have added more PnR in this offense over the months which would fit better with guards that actually looked to finish.
People do tend to forget that even the great players developed over their careers. A kid with the all around game of a Russell should be able to excel playing in just about any system. I'd love to have the opportunity to test the theory!
mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:
Russell seems to be the type of player that would shine in a more modern offense.
exactly
What does that even mean?
PnR / Spread Offense.
Modern? The pick and role is the oldest play in basketball. "Spread" meaning "kick it out to your center so he can hit a three" is over blown. Hitting the open man for an open jumper is basic basketball.
Too much emphasis is being put into the triangle offense. These bum knicks are running it well now. Knicks just need to sign guys that will continue to fill that mold. D'Angelo Russell is a basketball player more than just a point guard. I think the kid would flourish in the triangle. Everything he excels in is what can be amplified in this offense. The pick and roll is very much a part of the triangle anyway. So is kicking it out for open jumpers. So this modern offense doesn't exist. It's basketball not rocket science.
EnySpree wrote:mreinman wrote:EnySpree wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:
Russell seems to be the type of player that would shine in a more modern offense.
exactly
What does that even mean?
PnR / Spread Offense.
Modern? The pick and role is the oldest play in basketball. "Spread" meaning "kick it out to your center so he can hit a three" is over blown. Hitting the open man for an open jumper is basic basketball.
Too much emphasis is being put into the triangle offense. These bum knicks are running it well now. Knicks just need to sign guys that will continue to fill that mold. D'Angelo Russell is a basketball player more than just a point guard. I think the kid would flourish in the triangle. Everything he excels in is what can be amplified in this offense. The pick and roll is very much a part of the triangle anyway. So is kicking it out for open jumpers. So this modern offense doesn't exist. It's basketball not rocket science.
The mistake some are making is judging the Triangle by the players we have now who are not able to take full advantage of the openings that present themselves in the offense. The more talented and skilled the player the more he'll be able to do. Now the Spread offense or SSOL is totally geared towards the strengths of a great PG so it looks more impressive but the Triangle is also a spread offense just in a different way.
MDA always talked about the ball moving and that's no different in the Triangle. Ball and Player movement. The Triangle just requires a bit more thinking from ALL of the players rather than relying on a PG to initiate more of the action. The Triangle can work even without a great PnR PG. Still all systems require talent to work at their best.
I said this guy was the next Clyde Frazier 6 weeks ago and people thought I was on crack. It will be a difficult decision it's not that there isn't a clear number 1 talent the problem is deciding between the guys who are worthy.
BRIGGS wrote:I said this guy was the next Clyde Frazier 6 weeks ago and people thought I was on crack. It will be a difficult decision it's not that there isn't a clear number 1 talent the problem is deciding between the guys who are worthy.
I agree with the Frazier comparison. They have a very similar demeanor and floor game. Very slick
BRIGGS wrote:I said this guy was the next Clyde Frazier 6 weeks ago and people thought I was on crack. It will be a difficult decision it's not that there isn't a clear number 1 talent the problem is deciding between the guys who are worthy.
There were some who believed you. I think this kid is just the kind of leader this team needs. We need a brain and a threat to score or pass!!! Russell punches more of the buttons this team needs.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I said this guy was the next Clyde Frazier 6 weeks ago and people thought I was on crack. It will be a difficult decision it's not that there isn't a clear number 1 talent the problem is deciding between the guys who are worthy.
There were some who believed you. I think this kid is just the kind of leader this team needs. We need a brain and a threat to score or pass!!! Russell punches more of the buttons this team needs.
Since the cat is out the bag.... do you draft him over okafor and towns?
This is why I'm not sweating the draft. We are very fortunate to have an opportunity to get one I f the 3.
EnySpree wrote:nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I said this guy was the next Clyde Frazier 6 weeks ago and people thought I was on crack. It will be a difficult decision it's not that there isn't a clear number 1 talent the problem is deciding between the guys who are worthy.
There were some who believed you. I think this kid is just the kind of leader this team needs. We need a brain and a threat to score or pass!!! Russell punches more of the buttons this team needs.
Since the cat is out the bag.... do you draft him over okafor and towns?
This is why I'm not sweating the draft. We are very fortunate to have an opportunity to get one I f the 3.
id be thrilled to get either. However there are a few teams in the hunt so even a few extra wins can knocks us out of top 4
The year Jordan was selected, he was passed on twice by Houston and Portland who selected Sam Bowie before him. Yes we need a big in the worst way, but great guards only come around every once in a while. In the era of great PGs, Russell can be that guy. He is a special player.
I would still take Mudiay over Russell. Far superior athlete better passer probably the better defender too.
Top 3
1. Towns - Best fit w/Melo
2.Russell
3. OK4
gunsnewing wrote:Top 3
1. Towns - Best fit w/Melo
2.Russell
3. OK4
I'd go
1. Ok4
2. Mudiay
3. Russell
4. Towns
5. Johnson
Vmart wrote:I would still take Mudiay over Russell. Far superior athlete better passer probably the better defender too.
Is Mudiay more cerebral than Russell? I venture to say no. I would go with a smart player over an athlete any day. After 5 years in the league and a couple of injuries, athleticism is often worthless.
there are going to be some teams.... sixers, pistons, wolves just to name a few off the top of my head... who could just take russell #1...
nixluva wrote:People do tend to forget that even the great players developed over their careers. A kid with the all around game of a Russell should be able to excel playing in just about any system. I'd love to have the opportunity to test the theory!
The Post article makes him sound like a gym rat:
Matta said Russell’s work ethic and attention to detail remind him of David West, who played for Matta at Xavier and is in his 11th NBA season. He’s constantly looking for any advantage he can be, putting in extra time after practice in the gym, watching film.“He always has a purpose to what he’s doing,” Matta said. Other players put in extra hours, Matta said, but Russell always is working on aspects of his game that will translate to the next contest.
“That’s what great players do,” the Ohio State coach said.
He's definitely in the mix for the Knicks.
gunsnewing wrote:Top 3
1. Towns - Best fit w/Melo
2.Russell
3. OK4
In the next week you will get to see Okafor head up with Rakeem Christmas. I consider Okafor one of the 3 top players with a slight lead for pick #1 and Christmas to me has moved into the 10th position on my mock. He reminds me a lot of Antonio Mcdyess and is getting low played in drafts because he is a senior(a senior who came to school at 6-8 200 and is now 6-9 250) We will see a lot more here about man to man post defense as long as Duke doesnt hide him with zone. Also it will be interesting on the other end to watch Okafor go against someone with size and athletic ability who blocks shots and rebounds very well.
