SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:as someone that has studied advanced statistics -- I could not agree any more. I think you can improve teams with advanced analytics. I think building one based off an equation is DUMB. Definitely agree that analytics is a way for smart guys to get in the game. Or so other people think their opinion is more important... "give me a break." indeed
No one uses just one equation.
All those teams Barkley mentioned are spending millions on analytics experts though.
again, it is a great way to make marginal improvements to a team. To Barkley's point, the Houston teams built entirely on analytics were completely pedestrian
Analytics must be used in conjunction with good ole' fashion scouting. They should be used as pieces of a larger puzzle. I don't think anyone who's watched the Mavericks this season believed that Brandon Wright was one of the top 10 centers in the league or that Samuel Dalembert could replace Tyson Chandler, despite what the "advanced" stats said. The Mavericks would have also declined to sign Monta Ellis if they listened to most critics. We have to keep in mind that teams have access to metrics that go beyond Per, Win Shares, SCHOENE etc.
gunsnewing wrote:And if you are going to build around Melo you better hope you surround him with not only talent but high efficiency offensive & defensive metric players like Dallas surrounded Dirk with. This is if you want to get to Morey & the Rockets level
Didn't the Rockets lose in the first round last year and will likely lose in the first round this year without Dwight..Hasn't Melo led his team to the WCF??
holfresh wrote:gunsnewing wrote:And if you are going to build around Melo you better hope you surround him with not only talent but high efficiency offensive & defensive metric players like Dallas surrounded Dirk with. This is if you want to get to Morey & the Rockets level
Didn't the Rockets lose in the first round last year and will likely lose in the first round this year without Dwight..Hasn't Melo led his team to the WCF??
billups led that team. put down the bong
dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:gunsnewing wrote:And if you are going to build around Melo you better hope you surround him with not only talent but high efficiency offensive & defensive metric players like Dallas surrounded Dirk with. This is if you want to get to Morey & the Rockets level
Didn't the Rockets lose in the first round last year and will likely lose in the first round this year without Dwight..Hasn't Melo led his team to the WCF??
billups led that team. put down the bong
Billups led that team???..Don't confused being a PG with who was the go to guy...
Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Maybe he was just the best player on the team cough, cough. 
holfresh wrote:gunsnewing wrote:And if you are going to build around Melo you better hope you surround him with not only talent but high efficiency offensive & defensive metric players like Dallas surrounded Dirk with. This is if you want to get to Morey & the Rockets level
Didn't the Rockets lose in the first round last year and will likely lose in the first round this year without Dwight..Hasn't Melo led his team to the WCF??
the rockets lost to Portland who is one of the top analytics team and overall has a better team then them.
All them being the case, they lost on a last second shot to a better team that had better players while their star harden played badly and had a melo-like playoff performance.
because a team uses analytics it means that they are going to be better than everyone else?
Very strange comment.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
does not really make a diff ... they both needed each other.
holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
wait-- so now "leading the team in scoring" equates to "leading the team?" has melo been "leading the team" since he got to new york? on that latest olympic team where he scored 37 point against nigeria?
somebody woke up on the stupid side of the futon this morning.
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
does not really make a diff ... they both needed each other.
No one can play without teammates if that's what you're saying.
It was obvious to everyone who the most important player on that team was though.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
Maybe Denver is a bunch of idiots? They're almost at our team's level of stupidity.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
Maybe Denver is a bunch of idiots? They're almost at our team's level of stupidity.
Really, three years later Billups is out of the league..They aren't that stupid...
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Being a leader....and scoring points have nothing to do with each other. Melo is a leader who believes in leading by example. His example is scoring. I'm a leader on the court and I like to lead by example too....My example of leading is far more complicated than scoring.
Lebron has a different leadership style.....Which seems to work for JR.....And possibly majority of the NBA. Melo's leadership style works with other vets on his level, like team USA. Melo is not a natural born leader.....So he's learning on the fly. Melo could've used more experience in college to increase his leadership and basketball IQ. But I can't fault him for leaving...Too much money at stake....
Sounds like Phil needs to add vocal leaders to balance out Melos style.
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
Maybe Denver is a bunch of idiots? They're almost at our team's level of stupidity.
Really, three years later Billups is out of the league..They aren't that stupid...
He retired at age 37. Did you expect to play into his 40s? 50s? What point are you trying to make exactly?
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
Maybe Denver is a bunch of idiots? They're almost at our team's level of stupidity.
Really, three years later Billups is out of the league..They aren't that stupid...
He retired at age 37. Did you expect to play into his 40s? 50s? What point are you trying to make exactly?
Point I'm making??..U said they were idiots for not building around Billups...
Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
does not really make a diff ... they both needed each other.
No one can play without teammates if that's what you're saying.
It was obvious to everyone who the most important player on that team was though.
I don't think that billups gets the team that far without Melo. He was pivotal to that run.
It is obvious that Melo needs a billups to succeed.
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Melo averaged 27 pts and 6 boards in that playoff run and you are telling me Billups led that team...Come on...
Actually Billups was widely recognized as the leader of that team. He even finished well ahead of Melo in MVP voting that year.
Throughout Billups' career he has always been thought of as a "leader", even with his brief stint with the Knicks...How is it Denver or anyone wasn't trying to build around Billups?
Maybe Denver is a bunch of idiots? They're almost at our team's level of stupidity.
Really, three years later Billups is out of the league..They aren't that stupid...
He retired at age 37. Did you expect to play into his 40s? 50s? What point are you trying to make exactly?
Point I'm making??..U said they were idiots for not building around Billups...
Oh I misread your statement. I didn't notice you said building. My bad. He was too old to build around at that point.
Which is why I said you need to surround Melo with high efficiency 2way metric players. Billups is certianly a great example
