yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I agree. I don't think Melo is signed at a reasonable price but I'd be willing to keep him for 1 1/2 years just in case he helps bring in Durant. I think they'll do whatever they can to immediately improve the team, including shopping our lottery pick.
for who?
A good but high priced veteran on a cheap team? I really don't know who will be available or how desperate the front office will be. I'm not saying I want them to trade the pick but I could see them doing that for a guy like Mark Gasol, Chris Bosh, or a guy about to finish his rookie contract. It would be a typical Dolan move.
gunsnewing wrote:Cousins?
he's really really good.
Cousins is all right. It's worrisome that he only hits 46% of his 2 pointers but he'll probably be playing at a higher level during Melo's prime than a rookie we draft. I'd rather keep the pick and trade every veteran on the roster for as much cap space and as many draft picks as possible but I realize that won't happen.
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Cousins?
he's really really good.
He's the type of player you trade a top pick for. Already a star, but still younger than 25.
EwingsGlass wrote:Assuming you made a run at KD or any other intelligent star, you would need to craft players into the Triangle system. It takes a while to learn. I have no problem leaving money on the table for next year, looking only for value buys this year. The trouble with value this year is that nearly all 'value' free agents are restricted. Meaning, you have to overbid to get them. While this could work to our advantage by locking up opponent cap space by forcing them to overpay to keep their players, we run the risk that we will end up with an overpaid player. At this point, I cannot overpay for a RFA unless they are the last piece of the puzzle, not the first. Show me some FAs that are not restricted that are potential value picks? (clearly will not know for certain until the middle to end of FA).
From our position, you make your bid to RFAs where you want to pay them and if their team retains them, they retain them. Narrow down the field and remove teams as players in the market until you get your 'value' picks.
Agreed, nothing wrong with leaving money on the table, although we must land 1 top free agent and get some value players in here, as we can't afford not to be competitive next year. We don't have our own draft pick, and will run into real problems with 2016 free agents if we can't show significant progress and at least be a competitive playoff team. This year being bad is fine, we have a pick and everyone knows the cupboard is bare. Phil's first full year at the helm. It shouldn't prevent free agents from coming. But next year if we aren't a lot better it's a problem.
BRIGGS wrote:Whatever we do--we must keep a maximum slot open for 2016 for KD. If that means grabbing a couple of guys like Boozer and keeping Bargs and Smith on one year deals and using a lower amount--say 4 yrs 32 mm on Jackson etc..whatever we have to do to keep that slot open--we should do it.
I agree but KD won't come here. Bargs probably heads to Italy if the offer is one year. Boozer will take a multi year deal too.
i wouldn't want Cousins. Too much baggage.
KD is not coming here- why would he? He has no NY ties, there are better teams out there if he's after a championship, and he plays the same position as Melo. It makes zero sense. I'm not wasting another 2 years on a pipe dream. It's time we stopped pinning our hopes on big names and actually got down to building a winner of our own.
fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
Absolutely right. It's pretty simple to me.
We can improve next year by executing on the top pick--potentially being aggressive and finding another pick or 2 that can help right away. Find 1 Good solid 8-9mm $ ballplayer and then go for a bunch of 1 year contracts(or taking back contracts for assets) to keep us set to improve dramatically by grabbing a KD. And if we dont--we still have massive cap space to improve.
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I agree. I don't think Melo is signed at a reasonable price but I'd be willing to keep him for 1 1/2 years just in case he helps bring in Durant. I think they'll do whatever they can to immediately improve the team, including shopping our lottery pick.
for who?
A good but high priced veteran on a cheap team? I really don't know who will be available or how desperate the front office will be. I'm not saying I want them to trade the pick but I could see them doing that for a guy like Mark Gasol, Chris Bosh, or a guy about to finish his rookie contract. It would be a typical Dolan move.
Yeah, I think the market saved them from themselves. There isn't anyone worth a top 4 pick. Bosh definitely not worth a top pick and I doubt the Kings gave Karl the job with him not saying he would work with Cousins. Also, if Gasol is willing to come to the knicks why would they give there pick when they can sign him?
The best thing to do is to build the team up with none max players that will have trade value then give future FAs a reason to see NY as a team on the brink.
BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
Absolutely right. It's pretty simple to me.
We can improve next year by executing on the top pick--potentially being aggressive and finding another pick or 2 that can help right away. Find 1 Good solid 8-9mm $ ballplayer and then go for a bunch of 1 year contracts(or taking back contracts for assets) to keep us set to improve dramatically by grabbing a KD. And if we dont--we still have massive cap space to improve.
So if Dragic, Mathews and Monroe all are open to signing here what do you do? Do you pass on adding high quality players because you have a chance to sign a guy? Thats the REAL question. Shaq left Orlando because he wanted to play in a big market. Don Nelson was fired because Ewing found out that the he wanted the Knicks to offer Ewing for Shaq.
Now if the philosophy is you would rather wait and see than OVERPAY now ok fine... I guess.
Mostly those players go where they WANT to go. Dwight is happier in a small market and he wasnt playing with Kobe.
It comes does to this: There are some very very good FAs this year. Guys worth building a team around. If anything we are better off adding as many key assets as we can and hope to trade for him. What do the KNicks have to offer that Wash doesnt?
Lets build a team the right way rather than wait to be rescued by Durant.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
Absolutely right. It's pretty simple to me.
We can improve next year by executing on the top pick--potentially being aggressive and finding another pick or 2 that can help right away. Find 1 Good solid 8-9mm $ ballplayer and then go for a bunch of 1 year contracts(or taking back contracts for assets) to keep us set to improve dramatically by grabbing a KD. And if we dont--we still have massive cap space to improve.
So if Dragic, Mathews and Monroe all are open to signing here what do you do? Do you pass on adding high quality players because you have a chance to sign a guy? Thats the REAL question. Shaq left Orlando because he wanted to play in a big market. Don Nelson was fired because Ewing found out that the he wanted the Knicks to offer Ewing for Shaq.Now if the philosophy is you would rather wait and see than OVERPAY now ok fine... I guess.
Mostly those players go where they WANT to go. Dwight is happier in a small market and he wasnt playing with Kobe.
It comes does to this: There are some very very good FAs this year. Guys worth building a team around. If anything we are better off adding as many key assets as we can and hope to trade for him. What do the KNicks have to offer that Wash doesnt?
Lets build a team the right way rather than wait to be rescued by Durant.
Yep- for me it's like if I read that the 76ers strategy was to keep cap space to sign KD- deluded! Why would he come here?
smackeddog wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
Absolutely right. It's pretty simple to me.
We can improve next year by executing on the top pick--potentially being aggressive and finding another pick or 2 that can help right away. Find 1 Good solid 8-9mm $ ballplayer and then go for a bunch of 1 year contracts(or taking back contracts for assets) to keep us set to improve dramatically by grabbing a KD. And if we dont--we still have massive cap space to improve.
So if Dragic, Mathews and Monroe all are open to signing here what do you do? Do you pass on adding high quality players because you have a chance to sign a guy? Thats the REAL question. Shaq left Orlando because he wanted to play in a big market. Don Nelson was fired because Ewing found out that the he wanted the Knicks to offer Ewing for Shaq.Now if the philosophy is you would rather wait and see than OVERPAY now ok fine... I guess.
Mostly those players go where they WANT to go. Dwight is happier in a small market and he wasnt playing with Kobe.
It comes does to this: There are some very very good FAs this year. Guys worth building a team around. If anything we are better off adding as many key assets as we can and hope to trade for him. What do the KNicks have to offer that Wash doesnt?
Lets build a team the right way rather than wait to be rescued by Durant.
Yep- for me it's like if I read that the 76ers strategy was to keep cap space to sign KD- deluded! Why would he come here?
thats the perspective. Sure its nice to be in the play for a guy like KD. The question is how do you get there. If the Knicks pass on a player that can help or could be a nice piece because that player might go into cap space for a potential KD deal then we deserve even more misery than we have now.
^^ unless of course they have some kind of legit handshake or real tangible chance to sign him.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Anthony Davis is restricted FA. On what planet does he not get maxed out by his own team? Please. Waste of brainpower.KD is a nice thought. Im not building my team around a 5% chance to get another team's player. Unless there is some inside information the Knicks better build this the right way.
I donno man, LA did that with Shaq, Houston with Howard, Miami with a horde of players. Perhaps those players wanted out but you gotta at least semi plan for it.
Absolutely right. It's pretty simple to me.
We can improve next year by executing on the top pick--potentially being aggressive and finding another pick or 2 that can help right away. Find 1 Good solid 8-9mm $ ballplayer and then go for a bunch of 1 year contracts(or taking back contracts for assets) to keep us set to improve dramatically by grabbing a KD. And if we dont--we still have massive cap space to improve.
So if Dragic, Mathews and Monroe all are open to signing here what do you do? Do you pass on adding high quality players because you have a chance to sign a guy? Thats the REAL question. Shaq left Orlando because he wanted to play in a big market. Don Nelson was fired because Ewing found out that the he wanted the Knicks to offer Ewing for Shaq.Now if the philosophy is you would rather wait and see than OVERPAY now ok fine... I guess.
Mostly those players go where they WANT to go. Dwight is happier in a small market and he wasnt playing with Kobe.
It comes does to this: There are some very very good FAs this year. Guys worth building a team around. If anything we are better off adding as many key assets as we can and hope to trade for him. What do the KNicks have to offer that Wash doesnt?
Lets build a team the right way rather than wait to be rescued by Durant.
Nelson was fired because he knew Ewing was declining and wanted to run the offense thru Mason. Ewing balked and got Nelson fired
BRIGGS wrote:Whatever we do--we must keep a maximum slot open for 2016 for KD. If that means grabbing a couple of guys like Boozer and keeping Bargs and Smith on one year deals and using a lower amount--say 4 yrs 32 mm on Jackson etc..whatever we have to do to keep that slot open--we should do it.
That thought process would bring into play guys like David Lee who's contract would expire after next season.
You take on 1 year of salary for a decent 1-year rental and pick up a pick --- then you go back on market in summer of 2016.
Problem is most fans will scream if Knicks do that --- for me it depends on what other value they would get for eating that salary for a year.
how are we gonna train the future in the triangle if we are gonna play with rentals?
EwingsGlass wrote:Assuming you made a run at KD or any other intelligent star, you would need to craft players into the Triangle system. It takes a while to learn. I have no problem leaving money on the table for next year, looking only for value buys this year. The trouble with value this year is that nearly all 'value' free agents are restricted. Meaning, you have to overbid to get them. While this could work to our advantage by locking up opponent cap space by forcing them to overpay to keep their players, we run the risk that we will end up with an overpaid player. At this point, I cannot overpay for a RFA unless they are the last piece of the puzzle, not the first. Show me some FAs that are not restricted that are potential value picks? (clearly will not know for certain until the middle to end of FA).
From our position, you make your bid to RFAs where you want to pay them and if their team retains them, they retain them. Narrow down the field and remove teams as players in the market until you get your 'value' picks.
I don't buy that the triangle takes a long time to learn -- guys like Galloway/Lou/Lance learned in 3 practices what knuckle-heads like JR/Shump/Dally couldn't in 3 months.
