Knicks · The Knicks should spend big money on Khris Middleton...Whaat, are you serious?/ I'm going full RonnRonn. (page 1)

Yes, I know that may seem crazy but the Knicks should go after Middelton with everything they have. I get it he is not Jimmy Butler or Kawahi Leonard but if you were high on Draymond Green and was willing to go after him why not go after Khris? Middelton is not a sexy name but he may have similar potential as Butler, Leonard, and Green. Like those players and other recent wing players: Gordan Hayward, Chandler Parson, and Lance Stephenson; Middleton is a RFA. This puts pressure on teams to overpay for a player to get him away from his current team. So the Knicks would likely have to go the Dallas route and pay big bucks with some tricky language to pry him away. That is a big risk to spend on a "secondary type" player who was picked in the second round. However, besides Hayward most of the players previously listed were "secondary types" and outside of Hayward(1st rd/9th/2010) and Leonard(1st rd/15th/2011) the others were picked in a similar range: Stephenson(2nd rd/40th/2010), Butler(1st rd/30th/2011), Parsons(2nd rd/38th/2011), Green(2nd rd/35th/2012), and Middleton(2nd rd/39th/2012. So as you can see this are RFAs/former RFAs with similar talent level, roles, and market value. The only guy who market value was low is Stephenson and that had more to do with off the court concerns. However, he has looked like a bad investment which shows you what can happen when you take a risk.

Anyway, Middelton is a skilled two way player that can shoot it from deep and defend multiple positions. I have liked him for a while but thought he would be a cheap steal. This year he has upped his game in less minutes and created a buzz for himself.

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Morey made that quote at the MIT Sloan conference. Middelton is putting up some numbers that has advance stat geeks giddy.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23718...

Milwaukee is never better on both ends than when Middleton is on the floor, according to NBA.com. The team's net rating goes from plus-10.0 points per 100 possessions when Middleton is on the court to minus-4.9 points per 100 possessions when he sits on the bench—the equivalent of going from the second-best team in the league to 25th. Woof.

Milwaukee’s offense melts when Middleton hits the pine, going from 104.9 points per 100 possessions to 98.7 points per 100 possessions. And the defense goes from 94.9 points per 100 possessions to 103.6 points per 100 possessions with Middleton on and off the court.

It's impossible to ignore these numbers, but we can’t solely lean on on/off numbers when measuring any one player’s influence (according to ESPN’s Real Plus-Minus stat, Middleton is the NBA’s sixth-best player). Still, this is still extremely impressive stuff and warrants closer examination. How is a third-year player who’s averaging fewer minutes than he did a year ago having an MVP-candidate-worthy impact on a playoff team?

I think what has really set him apart is the move to SG. His ability to play the two guard at 6'8(w/shoes) has changed his value. He is able to use his size offensively and defensively to make a huge impact.
http://www.bucksketball.com/2015/02/khri...

The one noticeably different thing about his game this season is an apparent increased willingness to post up. Middleton’s 22-39 out of the post this season, and while he’s posted up on only about 8% of his possessions, he’s averaging better than one point per possession out of the post, good enough to place him within the league’s top 20 among players who average at least 10 minutes per game and have at least 10 post-ups.

“I have smaller guys guarding me in the shooting guard position and if my shot wasn’t falling, I just try to put them in a bind by going in the post and see what they would do,” Middleton said. “Every time I get in the post I’m not looking to shoot, most of the time I’m looking for the help, because they know I have a smaller player on me. So I’m looking for the pass out and trying to take advantage of it.”

To me his move to SG is what could make him so important to the knicks. Formerly he was playing more small forward and power forward and I thought if he came to the knicks it would mean that Anthony would have to move back to the PF position in a small ball attack. Now, Middleton can potentially play the two and the front court would not be so undersized. They can potentially go out and get a power forward in free agency.

Another thing of value is his age. Middleton is 23 and will turn 24 this summer. He is younger than every FA previously listed which means he could have more room to grow. Leonard is a month and some change older while Butler will be 26 in Sept and Green is turning 25 in 3 days. He could possibly make a jump like Butler did. I like to think of him as a Nicolas Batum type player. If he can become grow more as a passer he could really become a great player.

So, how can the knicks get Middleton? The Larry Sanders buyout and Knight Trade really hurt teams chances to outbid the Bucks for Middelton at a lower price. I personally would take the risk and sign him to a Parsons type deal, language and all.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/116548...

In one of his first interviews after Houston elected not to match the Mavericks’ offer sheet to Parsons, Morey told SportsTalk 790 AM in Houston: “That structure of that [contract] is literally one of the most untradeable structures that I’ve ever seen.”

The wrinkle that made it so: Parsons signed a tricky three-year deal with the Mavs, with an option to return to free agency after Year 2, as opposed to the four-year offer sheet Dallas, or any other external suitor, could have lavished on him…And that led him to the three-year construction, featuring the Year 2 player option and a maximum 15 percent trade kicker. He then took to it Cuban, convinced that the new formula would put the most pressure on Houston to let Parsons go if the Rockets hoped to maintain the utmost flexibility. For the following reasons:

• Players in the first year of a matched offer sheet can’t be traded without their consent.

• With the ability to become a free agent after the second year, Parsons would likely have diminished trade value to small-market teams fearful he’d simply leave at the first opportunity … while also potentially dissuading big-market teams that prize flexibility from trading for him and then seeing Parsons decide to opt in for the third year.

• The trade kicker in this contract could also prove to be even more expensive than usual, were Parsons to be dealt, if the salary cap rises as dramatically as some are projecting thanks to the TV money expected to pour into the league in the near future, as ESPN.com’s Larry Coon explains in greater detail here.

If you are willing to spend the money on Green why not Middelton who affects the game on both ends and can guard 3-4 positions? I realize that kind of contract would lead to the Knicks only having early bird rights on him but I think it is worth the risk. Who knows maybe a 4 yr max deal would get him out of Milwaukee. Either way I think they should go after him his numbers all around are great. Plus he is only 23, Draymond turns 25 in 4 days.

On another note, I wonder if it has to be either or? In my perfect dream World the summer would go Middleton, Towns/Russell/Okafor, Draymond Green, and Ajinca with the exception. The knicks could also do an offer sheet with similar language for Draymond Green. They might need to cut/trade Calderon to make it work if both players get MAX offers. If GSW matches then I hope the knicks would use the Green money on Joseph and Koufos with Ajinca getting the exception. Again, Joseph is a RFA and wording would needed to be added to get him away from SA but he could be had for $5-7M.

A lineup of Joseph, Middelton, Anthony, Towns, and Koufos would be nice. Ajinca, Galloway, Hardaway, and fillers would be a nice start to a rebuild.

Stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203114/tr...

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203114/tr...

http://www.82games.com/1415/14MIL10.HTM

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/...

What can u spend that the bucks would not match?

BRIGGS wrote:What can u spend that the bucks would not match?

Like I said it would have to be a Parsons' type deal. The money might be matchable but will the "no trade clause", trade kicker, and early opt out give them pause?

There was a good chance of landing him while they were facing having to pay out for Knight, but now he's gone they are well under the cap- they will match anything.

They have his bird rights so they can go over the cap and Middleton has such a low cap hold that they'll have around $12-13m in cap space when you add in their draft pick. So, how much do they value Khris? DO they see him as a max player and are they willing to use up all their cap space on one player if he gets an early offer sheet? Also, what happens if they sign a few players thinking no one will offer Middleton that type of deal then some one offers Khris the max? Will they pay the tax?

Plus, like I said about the language will they still like him if he is virtually untradable?

Think that was the reason they traded Brandon Knight as both were going to get paid as RFA
Middleton was one of the players I hope we would be able to steal, assuming they would have kept Knight, now they bought sometime with MKW on his rookie contract

His size/length and shooting ability is a rare combination that is quite under rated, along with his steals

Not sure if a Poison Pill would do it anymore with the trade but was considering using the Poison Pill on both Middleton and Draymond Green, with Lin/Asik type deals, then some HIGH IQ players and players with potential like Aijinca on a 3year deal...

there is very little reason that a team like the bucks will let go a promising young guy on the level of middleton... they are very aware of how good he is... the hope is that something like the pg musical chairs that happened at the trade deadline occurs in FA... the bucks being more interested in leonard, butler and harris....

plus there's the question of giving him max money... which i am just not sure about... there's some upside but there's a very good chance that there is little growth left in his game... at something like 12 million it's a good risk... above that it starts becoming iffy much like the parsons deal...

FistOfOakley wrote:there is very little reason that a team like the bucks will let go a promising young guy on the level of middleton... they are very aware of how good he is... the hope is that something like the pg musical chairs that happened at the trade deadline occurs in FA... the bucks being more interested in leonard, butler and harris....

plus there's the question of giving him max money... which i am just not sure about... there's some upside but there's a very good chance that there is little growth left in his game... at something like 12 million it's a good risk... above that it starts becoming iffy much like the parsons deal...

12m would be nice but I would not be outraged as a fan if they spent another $3m a yr. He is a younger player than most FAs so he probably has more growth than most.

His growth will come in his passing which has improved and if he can get to the FA line. One thing I did not mentioned was his FT shooting which is very good, career avg 85.7%. That could become a weapon.

Even if he doesn't take a huge jump offensively his defensive potential and impact is money worthy.

i ve been saying that for months too. however, now that they got rid of BKnight, they will use their money to sign middleton

the post game is where he'll find some growth..

but max money should not be thrown around for guys like this unless you are a player away from contending... it has a very high likelihood of not doing well... unless you have other areas where you can outperform the salary you will never escape mediocrity...

FistOfOakley wrote:the post game is where he'll find some growth..

but max money should not be thrown around for guys like this unless you are a player away from contending... it has a very high likelihood of not doing well... unless you have other areas where you can outperform the salary you will never escape mediocrity...

The post game too. That could also lead to more FTs. Having a 2 guard work the post in the triangle would be nice. I get what you are saying about throwing around money but I would be okay spending $15m on a young player especially when I know the cap will go up the following summer which means his % of the cap will be vastly lowered.

I would like the Knicks get most of their core this summer then go big in 16 with.one great player or two impact players.

yea.. like i said.. there are worse ways to spend 15mm this summer but he's someone who is a lot more valuable to the bucks than to us... they've discovered ways to maximize his value and it's uncertain if we can foster that same kind of environment...

FistOfOakley wrote:yea.. like i said.. there are worse ways to spend 15mm this summer but he's someone who is a lot more valuable to the bucks than to us... they've discovered ways to maximize his value and it's uncertain if we can foster that same kind of environment...

Maybe, but a lot of his game is triangle friendly, alot of catch and shoots, mid range pull ups, and now post ups. Pus the occasional slashes, cuts, and transition scoring.

This is the only player worth a maximum contract.

BRIGGS wrote:This is the only player worth a maximum contract.

agreed. all in

Who said middleton is a 2 way player? He's a nice shooter with a limited game. I'd spend 10 mill but not max.

callmened wrote:Who said middleton is a 2 way player? He's a nice shooter with a limited game. I'd spend 10 mill but not max.

What's limited about his game? Also outside of kawhi Leonard you are not going to find a better FA as young that impacts both sides of the ball.

callmened wrote:Who said middleton is a 2 way player? He's a nice shooter with a limited game. I'd spend 10 mill but not max.

The only chance at this is overpaying. 10mm will be ponied up by multiple clubs. No one else is worth 10mm in free agency. If we have any chance at all Wed have to be aggressive about it to the tilt. If the knicks are not aggressive and assertive to the draft and free agency we don't have the right management

they need to go all in on khris.

What is his ceiling?

Watched the first half vs Orlando tonight--you've hit it on the nail yellowboy--but I guarantee that even a 4 year 64mm $ contract will be matched. It will be a wasted week of time. Knicks can always try--certainly he is a premium piece at the 2 guard.