Knicks · Would you as a Knick fan take Andera Bargnani back on a 1 year 4mm deal? (page 7)
My idea is to trade Timmy h for a future 2 md and use his cap space
I believe if we end up as the last place team I think we have a 50-70% chance to grab 1 of the two pivots.
I would also be aggressive trying to add further talent in this draft by offering my 2018 pick with some restriction to see if I can add an additional 1 if it made sense and again look to buy picks in red 2
In fa I would offer kris Middleton a max contract Mo Williams a 2 year 13mm contract bargs a 2 yr 9mm contract w only 1mm guaranteed in yr 2 and Anjica a 4 year 14mm contract at 1201 am the first minute of fa and see what happens from there
Id feel really good if I had towns bargs admundson Anjica perhaps Aldrich and a new additional rookie prospect for the frontcourt
I understand that we need to build a team that can compete now ALONG with longer term rebuilding.
BRIGGS wrote:No my idea is to release Jose c and stretch his contract
My idea is to trade Tammy h for a future 2 md and use his cap space
I believe if we end up as the last place team I think we have a 50-70% chance to grab 1 of the two pivots.
I would also be aggressive trying to add further talent in this draft by offering my 2018 pick with some restriction to see if I can add an additional 1 if it made sense and again look to buy picks in red 2
In fa I would offer kris Middleton a max contract Mo Williams a 2 year 13mm contract bargs a 2 yr 9mm contract w only 1mm guaranteed in yr 2 and Anjica a 4 year 14mm contract at 1201 am the first minute of fa and see what happens from there
Problem is that you're thinking about a comprehensive and logical plan rather than knee jerk arm chair GM who isn't really considering our limited options and the huge amount of roster spots we have to fill.
We have to maximize every dollar from here on. Rebuilding this roster won't be a simple proposition. It's going to take careful planning as you're attempting to do. It's easy to turn your nose up to players who aren't perfect. I prefer to keep options open.
nixluva wrote:BRIGGS wrote:No my idea is to release Jose c and stretch his contract
My idea is to trade Tammy h for a future 2 md and use his cap space
I believe if we end up as the last place team I think we have a 50-70% chance to grab 1 of the two pivots.
I would also be aggressive trying to add further talent in this draft by offering my 2018 pick with some restriction to see if I can add an additional 1 if it made sense and again look to buy picks in red 2
In fa I would offer kris Middleton a max contract Mo Williams a 2 year 13mm contract bargs a 2 yr 9mm contract w only 1mm guaranteed in yr 2 and Anjica a 4 year 14mm contract at 1201 am the first minute of fa and see what happens from thereProblem is that you're thinking about a comprehensive and logical plan rather than knee jerk arm chair GM who isn't really considering our limited options and the huge amount of roster spots we have to fill.
We have to maximize every dollar from here on. Rebuilding this roster won't be a simple proposition. It's going to take careful planning as you're attempting to do. It's easy to turn your nose up to players who aren't perfect. I prefer to keep options open.
Yes, your wisdom is lost on lesser minds. A legit GM never turns their nose up to players who aren't perfect when they can fantasize about those players being something they are not. This ability to fantasize about unicorns and plum fairies is what separates the highly functional executives of the league from the also-rans. If Phil is truly as wise as you are, then he is ready to go to war surrounded by munchkins and oompa loompas and bubble gum trees.
knicks1248 wrote:Splat wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:All he is doing is going hard to sucker someone into throwing more than the vet in at himYep. Bargs right now is the perennial procrastinating underachiever pulling an all-nighter to write a paper they had all semester to produce in the hopes they can get a B or C instead of being bounced from school.
Only naive people base their assessments on the behavior of con men in their 11th hour on the gallows pole.
Good points, but you can't deny he has the skill set for this system. If he can play 50 to 60 games, get couple of dirty work guys around him, he's worth a non guaranteed contract. In this NBA business you get paid 2 ways, potential, and what you already accomplished.
If Bargs is the right player for your system, you should find a better system.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Splat wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:All he is doing is going hard to sucker someone into throwing more than the vet in at himYep. Bargs right now is the perennial procrastinating underachiever pulling an all-nighter to write a paper they had all semester to produce in the hopes they can get a B or C instead of being bounced from school.
Only naive people base their assessments on the behavior of con men in their 11th hour on the gallows pole.
Good points, but you can't deny he has the skill set for this system. If he can play 50 to 60 games, get couple of dirty work guys around him, he's worth a non guaranteed contract. In this NBA business you get paid 2 ways, potential, and what you already accomplished.
If Bargs is the right player for your system, you should find a better system.
The Knicks promotional slogan next season will be:
Bargs Is The System
and there will a three story tall billboard outside MSG with Bargs in black leather and shades with outstretched hands each holding a blue pill and a red pill. Melo will be in the background doing his best Fishburne impersonation.
BRIGGS wrote:Pretty close in voting.Here's my take.
We signed Jason Smith for basically the same price. Jason Smith is NO where near as good as Bargs and we essentially gave him the same deal (1yr 3.5mm)
We have 0 ZERO signed frontcourt players. To keep flexible, we need to spend atleast 1/3 of our cap space on 1 year rentals. This ASSURES us of having material cap space going 4 ward which is CRUCIAL even with the salary cap going up. I do not see doing much better than Bargs at 1 year 4mm. We need pro players at every position. The only way to do that is to spend less and ask for more. It really is. We need to identify players who cost less and can play over their contracts. This keeps us flexible and guys on smaller contracts play harder(most of the time) and are easier to move. If somoen can think of a frontcourt player better than bargs for 4mm Id like to hear it.
I think that Jerebko is better than Bargs for equal money, Briggs.
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Pretty close in voting.Here's my take.
We signed Jason Smith for basically the same price. Jason Smith is NO where near as good as Bargs and we essentially gave him the same deal (1yr 3.5mm)
We have 0 ZERO signed frontcourt players. To keep flexible, we need to spend atleast 1/3 of our cap space on 1 year rentals. This ASSURES us of having material cap space going 4 ward which is CRUCIAL even with the salary cap going up. I do not see doing much better than Bargs at 1 year 4mm. We need pro players at every position. The only way to do that is to spend less and ask for more. It really is. We need to identify players who cost less and can play over their contracts. This keeps us flexible and guys on smaller contracts play harder(most of the time) and are easier to move. If somoen can think of a frontcourt player better than bargs for 4mm Id like to hear it.
I think that Jerebko is better than Bargs for equal money, Briggs.
Has Jerebko ever been a primary option or shown he an carry an offense for any period of time? As much as people trash Bargs he did have a period were he was at least able to anchor an offense. Off the bench Bargs should be a decent scorer.
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Pretty close in voting.Here's my take.
We signed Jason Smith for basically the same price. Jason Smith is NO where near as good as Bargs and we essentially gave him the same deal (1yr 3.5mm)
We have 0 ZERO signed frontcourt players. To keep flexible, we need to spend atleast 1/3 of our cap space on 1 year rentals. This ASSURES us of having material cap space going 4 ward which is CRUCIAL even with the salary cap going up. I do not see doing much better than Bargs at 1 year 4mm. We need pro players at every position. The only way to do that is to spend less and ask for more. It really is. We need to identify players who cost less and can play over their contracts. This keeps us flexible and guys on smaller contracts play harder(most of the time) and are easier to move. If somoen can think of a frontcourt player better than bargs for 4mm Id like to hear it.
I think that Jerebko is better than Bargs for equal money, Briggs.
I respect your opinion but couldn't we get a Jerebko type like Seth Tuttle around pick 45 this year if that's what we want for 500K?
Let me show you guys something.
What's one thing I said about Bargnani for two years since we got him. I can look back and find 10 posts on the same subject. Bargs can play good if he "plays the right way"
I liked the Bargs trade at the time - the stupid unrestricted move we made which was brutal and not needed. Bargs is a 5-4 part C part PF--he CANNOT avg more than 4 3's a game. I can go back and show you video of game where he did not take a 3 against Miami and score 43. The "right way means 2 or less 3's a game and hopefully none. It really means a lot its CRUCIAL and Mike Woodson fell into letting bargs play that way.
Now look at these stats for his first 12 games this year---3 PG field attempts DOWN to 1.8 rebounding assists and FG % all UP. Its pretty simple Bargs is a marksman in the mid range and he still is 7 feet tall and will grab rebounds block shots and his passing ratio has risen
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
His ENTIRE career every single year this guy took nearly 4.5 3's a game. Why a coach didnt say Andrea--1 three a game and if you miss it thats it--we want you 14 feet and in. Sit down and show him film and demand that he plays the way. To say he scks at D is wrong--and we know that hes not Bill Russell but scks is not anywhere near true.
Did once person here even know that he has cut down on his 3 point shooting by more than 60% in these 12 games? That is whole career--really he has played basketball the wrong way? The guy is a 7 foot skill player--hes got 4-5 good years in the NBA. He's NOT going to be paid a lot of money--I dont care if Slim Shady was his agent. Hes going to come at a big discount because of injury. There is a SEVENTY % chance that we grba 1 of those posts from the draft. If bargs is healthy giving us 18-7-2.5-1.5 in 33 minutes shooting 47% no matter win or lose wouldnt it be easier for the new rookie to play with a skill player like Bargnani and take the pressure off of himself? Where is Phil Jackson to sit down with bargs and say Bargs--can we shoot 1 3 a game and if you miss it--no more? Isnt that his job or Fischer's job--to put the players in position to succeed?
I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
nixluva wrote:KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Pretty close in voting.Here's my take.
We signed Jason Smith for basically the same price. Jason Smith is NO where near as good as Bargs and we essentially gave him the same deal (1yr 3.5mm)
We have 0 ZERO signed frontcourt players. To keep flexible, we need to spend atleast 1/3 of our cap space on 1 year rentals. This ASSURES us of having material cap space going 4 ward which is CRUCIAL even with the salary cap going up. I do not see doing much better than Bargs at 1 year 4mm. We need pro players at every position. The only way to do that is to spend less and ask for more. It really is. We need to identify players who cost less and can play over their contracts. This keeps us flexible and guys on smaller contracts play harder(most of the time) and are easier to move. If somoen can think of a frontcourt player better than bargs for 4mm Id like to hear it.
I think that Jerebko is better than Bargs for equal money, Briggs.
Has Jerebko ever been a primary option or shown he an carry an offense for any period of time? As much as people trash Bargs he did have a period were he was at least able to anchor an offense. Off the bench Bargs should be a decent scorer.
Jerebko? Nixluva we can't win
Hector wrote:All this 'stretching the contract' nonsense. People try to get way to clever.I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
Phil tried to trade Jose. At a certain point you have to do what's in the teams best interests. If that means stretching Jose so be it. It may not come to that but it's an option.
EnySpree wrote:nixluva wrote:KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Pretty close in voting.Here's my take.
We signed Jason Smith for basically the same price. Jason Smith is NO where near as good as Bargs and we essentially gave him the same deal (1yr 3.5mm)
We have 0 ZERO signed frontcourt players. To keep flexible, we need to spend atleast 1/3 of our cap space on 1 year rentals. This ASSURES us of having material cap space going 4 ward which is CRUCIAL even with the salary cap going up. I do not see doing much better than Bargs at 1 year 4mm. We need pro players at every position. The only way to do that is to spend less and ask for more. It really is. We need to identify players who cost less and can play over their contracts. This keeps us flexible and guys on smaller contracts play harder(most of the time) and are easier to move. If somoen can think of a frontcourt player better than bargs for 4mm Id like to hear it.
I think that Jerebko is better than Bargs for equal money, Briggs.
Has Jerebko ever been a primary option or shown he an carry an offense for any period of time? As much as people trash Bargs he did have a period were he was at least able to anchor an offense. Off the bench Bargs should be a decent scorer.
Jerebko? Nixluva we can't win
You can't take these things seriously. It's like Bargnani derangement syndrome. The level of hate for Bargs is unreal. Even to the point of thinking anyone would automatically be better. It defies logic. They aren't using any kind of logic. No matter what Bargs does they refuse to accept him as an option. I actually like Jerebko and would have no problem adding him. Doesn't mean we can't keep Bargs who can actually guard Centers!!!
nixluva wrote:Hector wrote:All this 'stretching the contract' nonsense. People try to get way to clever.I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
Phil tried to trade Jose. At a certain point you have to do what's in the teams best interests. If that means stretching Jose so be it. It may not come to that but it's an option.
Are there any stats on how many teams have ever used this 'stretch provision'. The only time I ever hear of it is at this place.
Hector wrote:nixluva wrote:Hector wrote:All this 'stretching the contract' nonsense. People try to get way to clever.I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
Phil tried to trade Jose. At a certain point you have to do what's in the teams best interests. If that means stretching Jose so be it. It may not come to that but it's an option.
Are there any stats on how many teams have ever used this 'stretch provision'. The only time I ever hear of it is at this place.
You don't benefit from using the stretch unless you have a great FA who's about to sign with you but you need to free up the cap space. In the case of Jose, we save 9 mil total from the cap over the next 3 years but add 9 mill to the cap in the following 2 years.
Hector wrote:nixluva wrote:Hector wrote:All this 'stretching the contract' nonsense. People try to get way to clever.I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
Phil tried to trade Jose. At a certain point you have to do what's in the teams best interests. If that means stretching Jose so be it. It may not come to that but it's an option.
Are there any stats on how many teams have ever used this 'stretch provision'. The only time I ever hear of it is at this place.
You don't benefit from using the stretch unless you have a great FA who's about to sign with you but you need to free up the cap space. In the case of Jose, we save 9 mil total from the cap over the next 2 years but add 9 mill to the cap in the following 3 years.
Hector wrote:nixluva wrote:Hector wrote:All this 'stretching the contract' nonsense. People try to get way to clever.I'd much rather have these guys off the team than stretch their money into little bits & prolong the agony.
Phil tried to trade Jose. At a certain point you have to do what's in the teams best interests. If that means stretching Jose so be it. It may not come to that but it's an option.
Are there any stats on how many teams have ever used this 'stretch provision'. The only time I ever hear of it is at this place.
The bucks just used it after cutting Sanders after an amazingly cheap buyout. It is yet to be seen if Detroit will use it on Smith but it is possible.
It's just been brought up so much it's made to seem like a no brainer. Interesting theory.