i went to barclay's tonight and caught the first half of the utah game. gordon hayward is head and shoulders the best player on that court tonight. he is very smooth, has a pure stroke, has a great nose for the ball, has superior athleticism, and is in great shape. and you can clearly see the game has slowed down for him. a fair contract at 14.7 million and is putting up winning numbers. utah may have something brewing.
Interesting how many probably thought it was a bad signing by Utah. Now it probably is considered a good deal.
i think it has to be. if what i saw tonight is any indication then during his prime years he will be putting up major winning stats along the lines of paul george and kawhi leonard. the superior players always draw fouls and that is where hayward is headed.
OT of OT
Apart from his game, his image has changed a lot and looks great.
The problem with that comparison is that Kawhi and George are great defenders, Heyward isn't. Also, friendly reminder, Hayward was drafted using one of the picks we traded for Marbury.
VCoug wrote:The problem with that comparison is that Kawhi and George are great defenders, Heyward isn't. Also, friendly reminder, Hayward was drafted using one of the picks we traded for Marbury.
You really know how to hurt a guy.
Kidding aside. I love his game.
I liked Gordan and was hoping his down year would help Utah push him out but they extended him and he is shooting the ball well again.
Not a fan of his- he's mediocre.
smackeddog wrote:Not a fan of his- he's mediocre.
Given a decent role, he can be very good, everybody in the nba is not flawless.
I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
I thought he went a bit too HIGH in his draft, picked before Paul George, but has really improved since then and filled out his body/gotton stronger, with very good all round skills/versatile, and is still improving
Was he a max player?
No, probably not, but at the same time, he is still improving and has the combinaton of all round/versatile talents with greats size/athleticism to play SG/SF legit, and still defend other positions on switches and can score/facilitate in many other positions on OFF
I can understand why they must overpay in order to keep him, as he was signed to a MAX contract by the Bobcats
If anything I think they overpaid for Alex Burks by outbidding themselves, whos contract is in the range of 11m per year on average from about 10m-12m and was unfortuantely hurt with season ending surgery early this season, so he is lucky he got that extension prior to his injury, a reason why sometimes talents like Greg Monroe/Jimmy Butler taking risks for a bit more money could be a huge risk
On the other hand, Klay Thompson and James Harden *years ago*, didn't give in and demanded NOTHING LESS than the max but they had leverage on their current teams and are undeniable TOP TIER players
Especially with Klay Thompson, who is a great shooter, and underated versatile defender/play maker for his team
earthmansurfer wrote:I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
I thought all NBA players have brains. Am I missing something? Are there robots playing ball that I don't know about?
smackeddog wrote:Not a fan of his- he's mediocre.
nothing mediocre from what i saw of him live-- superior athleticism, likes to keep others involved, sweet stroke, is learning how to draw more fouls, looks like the game has slowed down for him.
earthmansurfer wrote:I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
his defense looked pretty good to me, ie he was holding his own and forcing his assignment into inefficiency. his defensive real plus minus is right around zero, so he is certainly not a liability.
I saw a game in salt lake when Haywood took a part the Jazz.
Maybe the white guys are seen as "soft"?
The kid can play. He is no superstar, but a worthy all-star caliber player.
blkexec wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
I thought all NBA players have brains. Am I missing something? Are there robots playing ball that I don't know about?
Have you noticed that some players excel at making others around them better to make up for their shortcomings? e.g. Defense
And then there are other players who (with the eye test) are just not intelligent and they get by on athleticism and such.
It is sort of like forum posters, some posters overly simplify things and miss the message. Know what I mean?
dk7th wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
his defense looked pretty good to me, ie he was holding his own and forcing his assignment into inefficiency. his defensive real plus minus is right around zero, so he is certainly not a liability.
I don't think he is a bad defender, he knows how to make due with what he has. As I said, he isn't a dominant defender (that I have seen but I haven't seen him a ton.)
Anyway, I don't think there is much of a chance we get him. I hope we can get a very dominant two way player, you know the effect they have on everyone else.
Towns might be that guy, even Mudiay. As much as I like Russel and Okafur, they are a level below on defense. They might be dominant on offense though so beggars can't be choosers.
Eventually we get to Melo here, don't we?
Nalod wrote:Eventually we get to Melo here, don't we?
Yea now.
Thanks to you
gunsnewing wrote:Nalod wrote:Eventually we get to Melo here, don't we?
Yea now.
Thanks to you
They call him Melo Yello
earthmansurfer wrote:dk7th wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:I like good players with brains, but tbh, we need two way players. Now, maybe Gordon can fit in here, but Bargs will be back and such, so we do need some dominant 2 way players.
his defense looked pretty good to me, ie he was holding his own and forcing his assignment into inefficiency. his defensive real plus minus is right around zero, so he is certainly not a liability.
I don't think he is a bad defender, he knows how to make due with what he has. As I said, he isn't a dominant defender (that I have seen but I haven't seen him a ton.)
Anyway, I don't think there is much of a chance we get him. I hope we can get a very dominant two way player, you know the effect they have on everyone else.
Towns might be that guy, even Mudiay. As much as I like Russel and Okafur, they are a level below on defense. They might be dominant on offense though so beggars can't be choosers.
i agree he is not a "dominant" defender. he is however, an adequate one... from what i saw of him live he did a really good job on johnson who shot 40% and had 0 free throws. what i noticed is that he is a superior athlete who looks like he is picking and choosing his spots to exert himself on defense. is that coasting or just seeing the game at such a slowed rate that he can predict where he needs to exert himself? i don't know the answer i just saw the results. and then when i looked at his defensive plus minus it shows that he is at least average on defense but ends up as a positive-sum player.
i know the knicks have no shot at him. it is clear, however, that a player of this caliber even if at too high a salary for the knicks, is a good value for the jazz. exum also looks promising.
