Knicks · NBAdraft.net puts Russell and Towns ahead of OK4 (page 8)

fishmike wrote:So Ive heard OK4 is going to get fat, compared him to Mike Sweetney.. the stuff Im reading is silly.

How about this.. can you guys find a college player who had pedestrian #s like Towns has now and went on to be an NBA star? Its easy to find busts... lets go the other way. Who was the NCAA guy who played a role like Stien and blossomed into a star?

Please name one... I think this would solidify the Towns>OK4 case. At least give us something to work with. Right now its farts and fairy tales

Andre Drummond was at 10ppg and 7.5rpg and 2.7bpg at UConn.

Sheed's first season at UNC - 9.5ppg 6.6rpg (second season 16.6ppg 8.2rpg)

Obviously Towns is going to take longer to develop than Okafor... though his overall game is better, he plays on a far deeper team that produces NBA all-stars every single year...

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

18/10/55% is meaningless. I can show you many players with those number who are good but far from great.

I am actually happy that we at least have a chance to get one of those 3.

What happens if we fall out of the top 3 which is a very large possibility that nobody is even mentioning? eeeeeeeesh

gunsnewing wrote:Ewing. Fist brought up how Ewing's numbers werent dominate but improved in the pros. And ewing was 23 not 19 and played big minutes

This is kinda my point. You think Ewing is the same player if you pluck him from GW after that freshman season which is far superior to Towns? Can you make that assumption? Think about how much those battles at GW prepared him for the NBA.. you think that happens from the bench? You just dont know... Ewing might have been bounced from the NBA for all we know. Too early can ruin players. Towns isnt NBA ready.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

18/10/55% is meaningless. I can show you many players with those number who are good but far from great.

I am actually happy that we at least have a chance to get one of those 3.

What happens if we fall out of the top 3 which is a very large possibility that nobody is even mentioning? eeeeeeeesh

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:So Ive heard OK4 is going to get fat, compared him to Mike Sweetney.. the stuff Im reading is silly.

How about this.. can you guys find a college player who had pedestrian #s like Towns has now and went on to be an NBA star? Its easy to find busts... lets go the other way. Who was the NCAA guy who played a role like Stien and blossomed into a star?

Please name one... I think this would solidify the Towns>OK4 case. At least give us something to work with. Right now its farts and fairy tales

Andre Drummond was at 10ppg and 7.5rpg and 2.7bpg at UConn.

Sheed's first season at UNC - 9.5ppg 6.6rpg (second season 16.6ppg 8.2rpg)

Obviously Towns is going to take longer to develop than Okafor... though his overall game is better, he plays on a far deeper team that produces NBA all-stars every single year...

fishmike wrote:ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

the other thing I come back to - this year is stocked with NBA ready big men... in free agency. it takes bigs a while to develop in the league. a lot of guards come in and can hang right away. If the Knicks aren't feeling patient (and we know Dolan, Phil and Melo are all anxious to compete) D'Angelo presents a good option for that. And they can stock up on the need part of their list in FA with Hibbert, Robin Lopez, Monroe (who I don't love), etc, maybe hit a home run with LMA or Marc Gasol (though that's unlikely). if you look at ROY - they are usually guards. the league is geared toward that kind of player now. they want a draft pick to help them off the bat, Russell seems like a good bet who can also get better.

of course, being a lifelong Knicks fan, I am bracing for them to trade the pick for Kevin Love and then sign Rajon Rondo in FA. Hey, they'd sell some jerseys.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

18/10/55% is meaningless. I can show you many players with those number who are good but far from great.

I am actually happy that we at least have a chance to get one of those 3.

What happens if we fall out of the top 3 which is a very large possibility that nobody is even mentioning? eeeeeeeesh

its not meaningless.. remember you said there are no empty stats right? You just spelled my point though.. you cant show me too many 18/10/55% that are BAD can you?

bad? no ... not on offense.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:So Ive heard OK4 is going to get fat, compared him to Mike Sweetney.. the stuff Im reading is silly.

How about this.. can you guys find a college player who had pedestrian #s like Towns has now and went on to be an NBA star? Its easy to find busts... lets go the other way. Who was the NCAA guy who played a role like Stien and blossomed into a star?

Please name one... I think this would solidify the Towns>OK4 case. At least give us something to work with. Right now its farts and fairy tales

Andre Drummond was at 10ppg and 7.5rpg and 2.7bpg at UConn.

Sheed's first season at UNC - 9.5ppg 6.6rpg (second season 16.6ppg 8.2rpg)

Obviously Towns is going to take longer to develop than Okafor... though his overall game is better, he plays on a far deeper team that produces NBA all-stars every single year...

pretty good. Here's another one: Marvin Williams

haha, fair enough. Yes, if they take Towns over Russell... shades of Marvin over Chris Paul and Bowie over Jordan will definitely cross my mind. I like Russell a lot. I tend to think the Knicks won't get him because I covet him so much. We'll see!

holfresh wrote:You always have to draft the best talent instead of the best fit...OK4 looks a little slow to me and is methodical in nature...I think he needs to play with more energy...But I'll take OK4 all day..He is only a freshman...He has lots to learn..Duncan freshman year and senior year are two completely different players..

that is the isiah thomas approach. didn't work

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

18/10/55% is meaningless. I can show you many players with those number who are good but far from great.

I am actually happy that we at least have a chance to get one of those 3.

What happens if we fall out of the top 3 which is a very large possibility that nobody is even mentioning? eeeeeeeesh

its not meaningless.. remember you said there are no empty stats right? You just spelled my point though.. you cant show me too many 18/10/55% that are BAD can you?

David Lee comes to mind and I would take him on my team and surround him with players that mask his deficiencies.

So what it comes down to is you want ok4 because he is the safe pick. Nothing wrong with that. No need to drag Towns through the mud. Two entirely different philosophies at play. We shall see

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:The Duke bigmen thing is fine.. I cant defend that except to say every player is different. Bargs and Curry fall under my group of players picked by potential over production. Curry was in HS and dominated there, so at least the Bulls had that. Ultimately it wasnt a talent problem with Curry it was a personality problem (work ethic) but again.... body of work. Town's body of work is incomplete, so you have to make assumptions. Marbury dominated college and was a very good pro despite being an asshole who alientated his teams, but he could surely play. Bargs was another euro playing 15-20 minutes that people were trying to "project" on and that might have been the worst draft ever.

I agree with you about personality being a big component. That's one reason I like D'Angelo Russell the best. Kid just seems like he has the flair to excel in NYC under the big lights. Towns has obviously down well on a huge stage in Kentucky which is also basically NBA training camp for prospects, though not consistently. Something about Okafor's demeanor, quiet... I don't know if I see it working in NY. I guess Ewing did okay though.

That said - the big thing I keep coming back to - all those Duke guys were really hard workers and took themselves and their games seriously. Boozer and Brand had some success, but I think it's fair to say Brand was something of a disappointment for a #1 overall pick. Laettner was a big time bust. Shelden Williams was awful.

I don't know. This is all obviously speculation, but if I had my pick, I'd take Russell. I'd be tempted to take Towns, but as you've said, that involves some speculation and hope. Though he has had some dominant games.

ha... funny. +100000 and I honestly hope this just happens and the Knicks take him at #3.

Ive started a few threads on Russell, but Im almost over talking about him because he is my favorite player in the draft and I know Im totally biased right now. I think the NBA is tailor made for this skill set. I think he's got that personality you mentioned. Hell.. he's even got the good looks. I also think he would look great right out of the gate next to the guys we have in Galloway, Shved and yes.. Jose

I love him and hope that we get him, but I dont see us taking him, rather it would happen if we just saw him as the BPA

Mostly Im terrified we blow this on a Thabeet caliber bust and Im afraid Towns fits the profile. OK4 seems like the worst you can say is he will be an 18/10/55% guy with marginal defense. Well would that help us? It sure would... I feel like worst case we are getting a nice piece, even if its not the Ewing clone the Town's Moobies are dreaming of.

18/10/55% is meaningless. I can show you many players with those number who are good but far from great.

I am actually happy that we at least have a chance to get one of those 3.

What happens if we fall out of the top 3 which is a very large possibility that nobody is even mentioning? eeeeeeeesh

its not meaningless.. remember you said there are no empty stats right? You just spelled my point though.. you cant show me too many 18/10/55% that are BAD can you?

David Lee comes to mind and I would take him on my team and surround him with players that mask his deficiencies.

So what it comes down to is you want ok4 because he is the safe pick. Nothing wrong with that. No need to drag Towns through the mud. Two entirely different philosophies at play. We shall see

right and is mr lee anywhere near a top 3 talent? no way!

Ok4 is top pick but don't sell me on the 18/10/55

sell me on the 18/10/60TS that he will have in the NBA while playing at least solid defense and some shot blocking.

Vmart wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I've come to think of it like this.

IF Duke played PLumlee at C Okafor at 4--there would be zero debate who the number #1 pick is. I realized watching last game finally---Duke simply plays small when they could stand to play big. They put a LOT on a freshmen to carry the team both ways and hes not equipped to do it by himself in the middle where he ash some flaw. But if they started the season with Plumlee in the middle--no one would say boo about his D and he'd have the same numbers. It just took me time to realize--and Im not stepping on coach KIs shoes but he really should start Plumlee at C and play a traditional line up. They could never match Kentucky without the double big. They could just rotate Plumlee Okafor and Jefferson. Playing at 6-10 with a 6-6 PF who should be a 3--thats small and Okafor is a 4 not a 5

OK4... 6'11 with a 7'6 wingpan at 270 lbs with a pure under the rim post game and you want him at PF. I simply dont get this notion that he should be a PF. Why? Because Duncan called himself a PF for all these years?

I dont want OK4 guarding 4s and on offense I dont want him anway further than 8 feet from the basket where he's shooting just under 70%. OK4's FG% is higher than anything I can remember. I started poking around for other NCAA bigs:
OK4 .669
Sgaq .628 (best - sophmore)
Hakeem .675 (best - JR season)
Zo .603 (best - FR season)

I gave up after that... at 19 OK4 is poised to be one of the best scoring bigs in the game. Ever

"Back in the day" OK4 might have been able play at PF. Have to think he would have a terrible time trying to guard stretch 4 type players these days, and on offense, like you say, you don't want him starting out far from the basket when he has such a great post-up game.

The real issue for me with OK4, if we get him, is that I believe Anthony will have to play PF at some point (very possibly next year), which is great for us on offense, but terrible on D, if you have OK4 at 5 and Anthony at 4, and OK4 is does not prove to be an acceptable defender.

Towns is generally thought of as the guy who you are choosing based on potential, but in OK4's case, you are also taking him believing that he has the potential to be an NBA quality defender, and I have not seen that kind of ability in the games I've seen him play.

Walt OK4 is a good defender, just as good as KAT, Duke needs OK4 on the floor. Where as Kentucky doesn't necessarily need KAT on the floor. He can go hard on the defensive end. OK4 has to hold back on the defensive end he can't get into foul trouble lets face it Duke isn't as loaded as Kentucky.

lame excuse. his defense is just notthatgood and he is going to get abused in the nba. that's one of the reason why his stock has fallen off some the last month or so.

gunsnewing wrote:Marvin Williams is nothing like Towns. You laughed at Sweetney-OK4 and come back with that?

I don't see the Marvin Williams comparison at all. Strange.

FistOfOakley wrote:Using per game numbers can be very misleading.... the first thing you have to do when comparing any two players is make sure that they are on the same scale... Per 40 or per 100 possession are the popular ones..

yuk ... fishmike hates per 40. He would rather use actual compilations

BRIGGS wrote:I dont think we can draft someone this high based on a style of play we use or a comparison to another player. The NY Knicks do not have 1 and I mean 1 consistent player on their roster and Anthony is now a ? mark. Jahill Okafor to me is the surest thing to a safe bet that there is. He would be a Knicka LOT longer than any system we play. Hes the safest best pick. Hes 19--look at his touch within 8 feet--the arc on his shot. That can be expanded out to 12-14 feet over time and to the FT line--no doubt about that--he has good form. I was thinking last night just how many easy baskets Okafor wouldve had and how much pressure he wouldve put on the Suns roster at 265 when their biggest guy at the 4 was 240. This is the first high pick weve had in 30 years--Im not basing any talent evaluation based on triangle offense--I want a player who is consistent--Okafor has proven to be high end consistent on the offensive end and rebounding the ball--as high as it gets for a freshmen--there is no David Robinson in this draft. Ok4 is the surest bet Towns below him than Russell next.

have you noticed how low okafor's release point is? not a good sign.

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Marvin Williams is nothing like Towns. You laughed at Sweetney-OK4 and come back with that?

I don't see the Marvin Williams comparison at all. Strange.

Yea he is a tweener. Neither SF or PF and played at UNC not kentucky under Cal

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Marvin Williams is nothing like Towns. You laughed at Sweetney-OK4 and come back with that?

I don't see the Marvin Williams comparison at all. Strange.

Yea he is a tweener. Neither SF or PF and played at UNC not kentucky under Cal

The comparison wasn't to his game - but to the fact that he was a promising talent in college who didn't exactly show he could be a highly productive player on the NBA level or even on the college level. He was drafted on potential.

I see what he was going for, even though I think Towns has already shown a lot more than Marvin Williams ever did. Williams never had the remote impact on defence on a game that Towns does. Marvin Williams reminded me of Tim Thomas coming out of college... and that's pretty much what his career wound up being.

Towns, I can see an easy comparison to Andre Drummond. If he develops his offense a little more, could be a lot better. I don't see an Anthony Davis ceiling, but maybe a Bogut or Sheed ceiling for Towns. Two way guys who effect all aspects of the game.

OK4... who knows. It doesn't seem like he's a game-changing defender. Could he be a taller Elton Brand? Don't forget, Brand was unstoppable for a few years as a Clipper and even now is sought after as a solid contributor. But because of his lack of defense, his teams were never really dominant (though you could say the same for Melo). I see OK4 being somewhat similar in that regard - gifted offensively, maybe at a Brand, Cousins level. But lax and slow-footed on D, like Brook Lopez. I have a sinking feeling OK4 will have a ton of nights where he gets 35pts and 8rebs and his team gives up 110pts and loses.

I think at some point you have to think of building a roster. IF you consider OK4 a franchise cornerstone, a franchise player, you draft him and wait out Melo's contract. But I think it's more likely the Knicks will try to build a team to complement Melo's talents, which is why Towns makes a lot of sense. But he's gonna take a while. Andre Drummond is a very similar type of player - averaged 10ppg and 7.5rpg at UConn in one season. Came into Detroit and averaged 7.8ppg and 7.8rpg in year one in 20 minutes. Will the Knicks have the patience for Towns to develop over a few years? Drummond was 13ppg and 13rpg in year 2 and is there at 13ppg and 13rpg in year 3... but anyone who has seen him play knows he has a ways to go. Are the Knicks willing to be patient with Towns and wait til Year 3 when Melo is 33/34yrs old? I highly doubt it.

That said, I prefer Russell - just based on a gut feeling that he will be very good. If you look at how many rookies of the year are guards, Knicks may think they can get an earlier return on a guard as well. And free agency is stocked with very capable veteran big men from Robin Lopez to Greg Monroe to Roy Hibbert and the superstars M Gasol and LMA. And that Kevin Love guy (who I would hate hate hate as a Knick, but whatever)

I still think end of the day, the Knicks may trade the pick for Love though. I've had that gitchy feeling since it first seemed like Love was unhappy in Cleveland. It's gonna be between LA and NYK - and we know that Phil has a rivalry going with Jeannie. The only time we've heard him say he wants to win a game all season was last week in LA.