Knicks · NBAdraft.net puts Russell and Towns ahead of OK4 (page 9)

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Marvin Williams is nothing like Towns. You laughed at Sweetney-OK4 and come back with that?

I don't see the Marvin Williams comparison at all. Strange.

Yea he is a tweener. Neither SF or PF and played at UNC not kentucky under Cal

The comparison wasn't to his game - but to the fact that he was a promising talent in college who didn't exactly show he could be a highly productive player on the NBA level or even on the college level. He was drafted on potential.

I see what he was going for, even though I think Towns has already shown a lot more than Marvin Williams ever did. Williams never had the remote impact on defence on a game that Towns does. Marvin Williams reminded me of Tim Thomas coming out of college... and that's pretty much what his career wound up being.

Towns, I can see an easy comparison to Andre Drummond. If he develops his offense a little more, could be a lot better. I don't see an Anthony Davis ceiling, but maybe a Bogut or Sheed ceiling for Towns. Two way guys who effect all aspects of the game.

OK4... who knows. It doesn't seem like he's a game-changing defender. Could he be a taller Elton Brand? Don't forget, Brand was unstoppable for a few years as a Clipper and even now is sought after as a solid contributor. But because of his lack of defense, his teams were never really dominant (though you could say the same for Melo). I see OK4 being somewhat similar in that regard - gifted offensively, maybe at a Brand, Cousins level. But lax and slow-footed on D, like Brook Lopez. I have a sinking feeling OK4 will have a ton of nights where he gets 35pts and 8rebs and his team gives up 110pts and loses.

I think at some point you have to think of building a roster. IF you consider OK4 a franchise cornerstone, a franchise player, you draft him and wait out Melo's contract. But I think it's more likely the Knicks will try to build a team to complement Melo's talents, which is why Towns makes a lot of sense. But he's gonna take a while. Andre Drummond is a very similar type of player - averaged 10ppg and 7.5rpg at UConn in one season. Came into Detroit and averaged 7.8ppg and 7.8rpg in year one in 20 minutes. Will the Knicks have the patience for Towns to develop over a few years? Drummond was 13ppg and 13rpg in year 2 and is there at 13ppg and 13rpg in year 3... but anyone who has seen him play knows he has a ways to go. Are the Knicks willing to be patient with Towns and wait til Year 3 when Melo is 33/34yrs old? I highly doubt it.

That said, I prefer Russell - just based on a gut feeling that he will be very good. If you look at how many rookies of the year are guards, Knicks may think they can get an earlier return on a guard as well. And free agency is stocked with very capable veteran big men from Robin Lopez to Greg Monroe to Roy Hibbert and the superstars M Gasol and LMA. And that Kevin Love guy (who I would hate hate hate as a Knick, but whatever)

I still think end of the day, the Knicks may trade the pick for Love though. I've had that gitchy feeling since it first seemed like Love was unhappy in Cleveland. It's gonna be between LA and NYK - and we know that Phil has a rivalry going with Jeannie. The only time we've heard him say he wants to win a game all season was last week in LA.

Eh when did Calipari produce a big man bust like Marvin?

the difference with marvin williams was that he was coming off the bench for a stacked unc team.. he was playing most of his minutes against the other teams b squad...

towns starts... plays most of his minutes against the starters... and plays down the stretch...

gunsnewing wrote:Eh when did Calipari produce a big man bust like Marvin?

Earl Barron?

JK, I have a good feeling about Towns, which is why I've said I want him over OK4. I just think he may take a few years. Years the Knicks may not want to wait.

I have the best feeling about Russell. I think that kid has star written all over him. He understands the game. Carries his team the way Steph Curry carried his team in college.

Earl was a top pick?

gunsnewing wrote:Earl was a top pick?

Look, if you read my posts I've been saying I prefer Towns to OK4. I'm not sure what you're so upset about.

I'm not upset just trying to get to the bottom of that comparison

Couldn't agree with Fish, more. Russell is my fav player in this draft as well, but Ok4 is the surest bet in this draft. You can put a blue and orange jersey on Ok4 tonight and he can drop 30, easily. I think the game opens up for him in the NBA and he will flourish on the offensive end. The biggest knock on his game is on the defensive end, but there are flaws in all of these prospects games. Key word, PROSPECT...meaning none are finished products...

OK4 has tremendous footwork, hands, IQ and is extremely comfortable working in the paint. His best skill, scoring the ball in the paint and forcing other teams to game plan for him, is better than Towns best skill which, I guess is his defense. This is team ball, can't expect to solve all of our problems with one player. Take Ok4 and spend some FA money to get a defender next to him. I think it would be a mistake passing up on OK4 if we get the #1 pick....

gunsnewing wrote:I'm not upset just trying to get to the bottom of that comparison

he was talking about drafting a guy based on faith in their potential. Would you be happy if you drafted Towns and he averaged 9ppg and 7rpg for his whole career? no. you expect him to play up to his potential and be better than that.

Nah I see Towns doing a lot better than that

gunsnewing wrote:Nah I see Towns doing a lot better than that

yeah, and so did the people who drafted Marvin Williams. And there's the reason for the comparison.

Uptown wrote:Couldn't agree with Fish, more. Russell is my fav player in this draft as well, but Ok4 is the surest bet in this draft. You can put a blue and orange jersey on Ok4 tonight and he can drop 30, easily. I think the game opens up for him in the NBA and he will flourish on the offensive end. The biggest knock on his game is on the defensive end, but there are flaws in all of these prospects games. Key word, PROSPECT...meaning none are finished products...

OK4 has tremendous footwork, hands, IQ and is extremely comfortable working in the paint. His best skill, scoring the ball in the paint and forcing other teams to game plan for him, is better than Towns best skill which, I guess is his defense. This is team ball, can't expect to solve all of our problems with one player. Take Ok4 and spend some FA money to get a defender next to him. I think it would be a mistake passing up on OK4 if we get the #1 pick....

No my man all of Towns skills are his best skills. Not jus defense. He can do it all. Pass, create of the dribble, shoot 3's, post up, rebound over the opponent, block a ton of shots.

Ok4 can score in the paint no doubt

FistOfOakley wrote:the difference with marvin williams was that he was coming off the bench for a stacked unc team.. he was playing most of his minutes against the other teams b squad...

towns starts... plays most of his minutes against the starters... and plays down the stretch...

Yea exactly

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Eh when did Calipari produce a big man bust like Marvin?

Earl Barron?

JK, I have a good feeling about Towns, which is why I've said I want him over OK4. I just think he may take a few years. Years the Knicks may not want to wait.

I have the best feeling about Russell. I think that kid has star written all over him. He understands the game. Carries his team the way Steph Curry carried his team in college.

Phil said he would be patient with the 19yr old just last week

This is a great okafor tape because he shows every skill and also shows defensive skills with two blocked shots and a couple of nice helps. I have watched him enough that I believe he can be part of a strong team defense and that he has potential to be MUCH better defensively than he is right now nd I think some parts of this tape show that. It also shows his TREMENDOUS rebounding potential on both ends. In this game h had 17 but I dont see why this player cant average 11-13 in the NBA over 38 minutes. Hes not an above the rim rebounder like Towns but hes more like a Millsap Jefferson or Randolph. These guys tend to foul less.

He starts this game off against the near 7 feet 250 pound Zach Auguste who is an athletic NBA prospect.

Like he does against almost every defender he has faced this year he takes them 12 feet off the block bumps them once spins and is sitting point blank at the basket. I have not seen one player close to stopping him--not one. He rarely has his shot blocked---he holds the ball like an orange in his hands. The only time I have seen him slowed is against double and triple teams--the only reason why he avg under 20 points for the year. Remember Towns faces none Okafor usually faced them every game with few exceptions.

Please notice in the beginning minute of the video just how easily Okafor gets to the basket against the pro prospect. Its powerful nimble and easy for him. It also shows some of his unique touch and why it will highly likely translate out to 12-14 feet--he just needs reps.
:30 takes 6-11 250 pound athletic defender and pushes him under the basket for 2
:45 uses spin move for one handed 4 footer with touch
1:30--1:50 help defense and rebounding after shot
2:10 full court rim run
2:20 rebounding in traffic against multiple players
2:30 The first time he showed that leg injury this year--played through it.
2:40 catch and drive from deep in the baseline against smaller quicker defender
3:20 Free throw form--soft touch with good arch good follow through
3:30 rebound out of space
3:45 pass back out to open 3 pt shooter3:55 Nifty one handed pass to cutter for and 1.
4:10 Face up bank shot from 10 feet over 6-11 athletic defender for 2 points
4:30 holds defensive base while defender tries to go around him in lane and stripped by help
4:40 follow rebound finish
4:45 Blocks drive and thwarts secondarily offensive rebound.
5:00 posts 6-11 defender and moves him under the basket for a lay up with ease.
5:20 Powers same 6-11 defender under the basket again for 2
5:40 Creates Foul goes to line for 1-1 soft touch hits FT

Totals 10-18 22 points 17 rebounds 3 assists 2 blocks (2for 7 from FT Line)

Highest block game of the year 4 VS Boston College
Highest scoring output 30 vs V Tech
Most Free throw made game 14
Most rebounds game 20 VS Elon
Most assists game 5 Pittsburgh

Briggs you have ok4 of towns again? If so what happened the final game that changed your mind again?

he gets abused by ND regularly in the paint and isn't shown here... they are just not scared of him at all which is why they beat them 2 out of 3 times...

one thing you notice in this video is that he has a lot of room to operate since duke spreads the floor... how much success does he have on offense when there's another center on the court? that's probably the main reason why plumlee doesn't play with okafor since he'd face a much more packed paint... something towns sees all the time...

FistOfOakley wrote:he gets abused by ND regularly in the paint and isn't shown here... they are just not scared of him at all which is why they beat them 2 out of 3 times...

one thing you notice in this video is that he has a lot of room to operate since duke spreads the floor... how much success does he have on offense when there's another center on the court? that's probably the main reason why plumlee doesn't play with okafor since he'd face a much more packed paint... something towns sees all the time...

Another brilliant point

gunsnewing wrote:Briggs you have ok4 of towns again? If so what happened the final game that changed your mind again?

I just think that our offensive inefficiency would be helped most by Okafor. Both are very close--its not really this guy is great this guys stinks--its really 1a 1B. I realized in Duke's last loss that some of their interior defensive problems is that they do not play 2 big when they can. IF Plumlee played C and Okafor at 4 these conversations would not be taking place. Lets face facts Towns plays with 3 other guys at a time who are 6-10. Okafor plays with a PF who is 6-6 and 3 guards. Towns deserves more PT but he takes himself out of so many games. Im sure he will get that under handle. No losers here we win with both. I just envision the offense from Oakfor helping a tad more for awhile and I also believe Okafor will NOT be a defensive dud .

FistOfOakley wrote:he gets abused by ND regularly in the paint and isn't shown here... they are just not scared of him at all which is why they beat them 2 out of 3 times...

one thing you notice in this video is that he has a lot of room to operate since duke spreads the floor... how much success does he have on offense when there's another center on the court? that's probably the main reason why plumlee doesn't play with okafor since he'd face a much more packed paint... something towns sees all the time...

Plumlee could easily sit on the other block or be on the perimeter setting picks. The only space 2 bigs might help take up is penetrating guards. Has nada to do with Ok4.

We but the NBA has changed. It behooves teams to have bigs who create space and still be able to beat you inside when called upon. Better for team chemistry. That's where a guy like Al Jefferson puts up big numbers but his teams don't win inspite of the numbers.

Maybe you can build a team like Memphis around Ok; like they have with Randolph. Easier said the done though. Not easy finding a Gasol