Knicks · Grantland: Phil don't it.. (page 1)

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/new-yo...

In 2007, when Kobe was freaking out over Bynum’s developmental arc and demanding a trade, Jackson helped talk Kobe off the ledge, and GM Mitch Kupchak didn’t bow to the pressure, internal or otherwise. The Lakers went to three NBA Finals in a row, winning two.

Thirty-eight years before, Koppett ended that New York Times piece like this:

To return to the original question: how did the Knicks get so good so fast? The hard way — by building. It’s the only reliable way in any sport, and it only looks “sudden” when it pays off.

I just hope Jackson remembers.

This is why you don't let your stars call the shots

Like ever

gunsnewing wrote:This is why you don't let your stars call the shots

Like ever

unfortunetly we have dolan as our owner which means trouble

Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

That is presuming that he is not James Dolan, himself....

NardDogNation wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

That is presuming that he is not James Dolan, himself....

true

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

All we do is speculate here. Place would be pretty boring if we didn't. Of course Phil cares about what Melo wants because he is maxed out and has a no trade clause. There are limits to how far Phil will go to keep Melo happy, but keeping your star player happy is important for any franchise if he is going to be around for a while.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

Lol

If this pick gets traded it might be the proverbial last straw for me as a knicks fan until dolan is gone. I'm not sure I'll be able to handle it.

TripleThreat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why you don't let your stars call the shots

Like ever

I would say the NBA structure makes that far too complicated.

You can jettison players in MLB and the NFL because the talent pool accommodates different body types and vastly different roles. The talent gaps between tiers isn't so dramatic as the NBA.

Put it this way, if 45 percent of the adult male population in western countries was 6'5 in average height, you'd see the NBA operate much differently. The vaster the talent pool, the less leverage the individual player usually has in a bargaining/power position.

But it is just so rare to find anyone with that combination of height/speed/athleticism to play the modern NBA game, so the very top of the food chain carry a ton of weight and influence.

Tim Duncan is a team player because he wants to be. He could be a gigantic jerk off and be a criminal and worry about his next rap video and beat women and get 30 women pregnant and say stupid things to the press and shotjack 35 shots a night if he wanted. But he chooses to be a team player.

The league desperately needs mechanism to remove choice from the equation. Remove individual based marketing from the NBA, remove guaranteed contracts, form a hard cap, institute a franchise player rule/mechanism and use the press more ruthlessly, along with incorporating systematic changes in the game to make it more inclusive for non African Americans, and you'd start to change the power/leverage angle from the top shelf players.

Honestly, what the Jazz did with Deron Williams was refreshing. He went head to head with Jerry Sloan and Sloan retired.

Instead of kowtowing to Williams or letting a trade scenario spin out of control for a half season or more, they just told the mother fucker to pack his trash and GTFO.

GTFO you worthless POS. You selfish shotjacking coach killing diva.

The NBA simply needs more mechanisms to make this the norm, not the exception. Expanding the talent pool means curbing the height dependency issues in the league. The NBA drastically needs widespread logistical changes and format changes to improve the game and make the game more inclusive.

In today's game, you don't just pray to get that franchise super star, you pray you don't get one who is a gigantic idiot.

Look at poor Lakers fans. Instead of a Tim Duncan type. They got a narcissistic rapist.

I am not a Kobe fan but being stuck with a guy that has won 5 titles and two finals mvps while he played for your franchise doesn't suck. The nba is changing. Josh Smith, JR Smith, Shump are guys that got cut or moved for nothing because not having them on the team was more of a positive then their talent could provide.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

Another possibility is that when he wrote that on 3/20, his calendar was 12 days ahead and he thought he was being clever

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

You guys are to angry. I don't believe Dolan is a bad owner. I have said this time and again that he spends money and tries real hard to bring in people to get the Knicks in the right direction. He has spent ridiculous amounts just on management. If anything management has screwed this franchise up big time with poor moves. You want to blame anyone blame guys like Isiah, Brown.

I think he has realized his mistake is complete given Phil the Control. You need to lighten up and see an owner trying to do thee right things instead of harping on his mistakes.

Vmart wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

You guys are to angry. I don't believe Dolan is a bad owner. I have said this time and again that he spends money and tries real hard to bring in people to get the Knicks in the right direction. He has spent ridiculous amounts just on management. If anything management has screwed this franchise up big time with poor moves. You want to blame anyone blame guys like Isiah, Brown.

I think he has realized his mistake is complete given Phil the Control. You need to lighten up and see an owner trying to do thee right things instead of harping on his mistakes.

That doesn't make sense. The problems long pre-dated those individuals and continued long after them. They are just brief symptoms of an enduring problem. They aren't the problem itself. And spending money doesn't make you a good owner, just a desperate one. Return on investment, not total amount of investment, is what matters. There's no organization in the world where you can say, "I spent a lot of money. That makes me a great owner. Yeah, we got nothing out of it, but give me credit for all the spending."

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

You guys are to angry. I don't believe Dolan is a bad owner. I have said this time and again that he spends money and tries real hard to bring in people to get the Knicks in the right direction. He has spent ridiculous amounts just on management. If anything management has screwed this franchise up big time with poor moves. You want to blame anyone blame guys like Isiah, Brown.

I think he has realized his mistake is complete given Phil the Control. You need to lighten up and see an owner trying to do thee right things instead of harping on his mistakes.

That doesn't make sense. The problems long pre-dated those individuals and continued long after them. They are just brief symptoms of an enduring problem. They aren't the problem itself. And spending money doesn't make you a good owner, just a desperate one. Return on investment, not total amount of investment, is what matters. There's no organization in the world where you can say, "I spent a lot of money. That makes me a great owner. Yeah, we got nothing out of it, but give me credit for all the spending."

My problem is that you can't have it both ways..Support the Phil Jackson hire then blame Dolan when it doesn't work..

You have seen fans mega supportive of Donny, MDA and Amare then blame Dolan for offering Amare the contract..Crazy..

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

You guys are to angry. I don't believe Dolan is a bad owner. I have said this time and again that he spends money and tries real hard to bring in people to get the Knicks in the right direction. He has spent ridiculous amounts just on management. If anything management has screwed this franchise up big time with poor moves. You want to blame anyone blame guys like Isiah, Brown.

I think he has realized his mistake is complete given Phil the Control. You need to lighten up and see an owner trying to do thee right things instead of harping on his mistakes.

That doesn't make sense. The problems long pre-dated those individuals and continued long after them. They are just brief symptoms of an enduring problem. They aren't the problem itself. And spending money doesn't make you a good owner, just a desperate one. Return on investment, not total amount of investment, is what matters. There's no organization in the world where you can say, "I spent a lot of money. That makes me a great owner. Yeah, we got nothing out of it, but give me credit for all the spending."

My problem is that you can't have it both ways..Support the Phil Jackson hire then blame Dolan when it doesn't work..

You have seen fans mega supportive of Donny, MDA and Amare then blame Dolan for offering Amare the contract..Crazy..

I agree with you there. That comment only applies to some people here though. Many didn't praise getting Amare, hiring MDA, etc.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good article. The only thing I partially disagree with is where the writer suggests that Melo could say "Who the hell is Towns? He might not be very enthusiastic about getting a big, but someone like Russell, feeding him one nifty no look pass after another, that I believe would get his attention. Hopefully they would click like the way Mark Jackson clicked with Ewing.

Melo is a good soldier he is in it for the money. I'm not to worried about what he wants and neither is Phil. Remember Melo wants an ISO Melo coach and he doesn't have that. Melo isn't Michael Jordan or Kobe or Magic Johnson that he can ask for what he wants. I have total confidence in Phil and Dolan. We need to stop speculating and believe in Phil.

you were on a roll UNTIL you said you trusted dolan. Phil i trust but dolan has proven to be the worst owners in sports. He is the main reason we have sucked for 15 years

You guys got Dolan wrong.

not really. Nothing personal but its pretty evident he has been a major problem for years. I cant believe a dolan fan exists lol

+1, have to consider the possibility that:

a) Vmart is pulling our legs
b) It's "opposite" day
c) Vmart is on some new meds that impair cognitive functioning
d) Dolan paid him to say that

You guys are to angry. I don't believe Dolan is a bad owner. I have said this time and again that he spends money and tries real hard to bring in people to get the Knicks in the right direction. He has spent ridiculous amounts just on management. If anything management has screwed this franchise up big time with poor moves. You want to blame anyone blame guys like Isiah, Brown.

I think he has realized his mistake is complete given Phil the Control. You need to lighten up and see an owner trying to do thee right things instead of harping on his mistakes.

That doesn't make sense. The problems long pre-dated those individuals and continued long after them. They are just brief symptoms of an enduring problem. They aren't the problem itself. And spending money doesn't make you a good owner, just a desperate one. Return on investment, not total amount of investment, is what matters. There's no organization in the world where you can say, "I spent a lot of money. That makes me a great owner. Yeah, we got nothing out of it, but give me credit for all the spending."

There were people who went ape shyt over Isiah hiring. The Hiring of Brown was seen as a move to get the Knicks relevant. But hey let's blame Dolan for trying to get better. Man you guys just want blame Dolan. He can't win no matter what he does because some of his move back fired now all his moves will back fire. I don't see Dolan as the problem the problem has been and always will be GMs that come in here and made bad decisions and presented Dolan a vision and sell him on it. Leyden was give limitless spending his teams were constantly over capped. His decisions were bad but let's blame Dolan right.