Knicks · Woodson: If I were Knicks coach, I would’ve fought to keep Chandler (page 5)
crzymdups wrote:nyk4ever wrote:gunsnewing wrote:crzymdups wrote:Dude came back IN-SEASON from a BROKEN LEG.And led the Knicks to a 16-5 finish.
That was more Amare. Remember Tyson left the team for a handful of games late in the year and the reason was never disclosed. He was not fully engaged. The feud with Melo was too strong at that point
LOL you're making this a carmelo thing? you're starting to sound like splat.
if tyson gets disengaged because of his feelings being hurt by melo, then he truly is even more of a pussy than i thought.
Tyson is an NBA Champion. Raise your hand if you think Melo will ever even play in the Finals.
Uh, Melo definitely has the talent/skill to be a starter on a championship team. Will he ever get teammates good enough to help him get there is the question.
gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.
gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.
Pleasing Melo doesn't translate to rushing to trade Tyson. He could have waited until the draft and worked the phones to see if anyone could one up the offer. I doubt Melo put up a trade Tyson deadline for that week. Best guess is that Calderon was desired by Phil. Which is why he was willing to eat his salary.
newyorknewyork wrote:mreinman wrote:Chandler, who has addressed the lack of ball movement on several occasions this season, did not mention Anthony by name either on Saturday or Sunday. But Chandler, who was badly outplayed by Pacers center Roy Hibbert in Game 3, seemed to be referring to his All-Star teammate when he said on Sunday that there were moments when “you want to take over the game or you want to make a big shot where you (should) stick to the game plan. A good team wins basketball games. Unless you’re a great, great, great, great individual…and we only have a few of those come through.”Who do you think that he was talking about?
C'mon! Of course Tyson hated playing with Melo. He is a team player and Melo is frustrating to play with if you are a team player.
Maybe if the former 2nd overall pick developed his game then he could have have been skilled or capable of helping offensively creating for others and creating this ball movement.
Tyson Chandler with his 0.8 ast per game wants to talk about ball movement.
Tyson is not a selfish player. You can't count his assists because he is a finisher not a creator. He does not have a post game and does not command double teams.
If you look at his number of passes per 100 possessions, its probably high especially if you compare it to the number of shots that he takes.
So then Phil officially takes over and they let Woodson twiddle his thumbs before finally confirming he was terminated. Next up is Phil the public face and him making statements about new cultures, triangles and other stuff.
And then he says stuff about team players, loyalty, playing the game right, etc. and essentially saying we have guys in our midst who don't get the big picture without naming names.
Then he trades Tyson for damn Calderon and some extra stuff.
What I've learned about Phil is he is not as smart as he think he is. I've called it hubris, but one of the primary signs is making statements to the public that are snarky and taunting and not befitting a GM. Phil is really a big baby.
Supposedly the narrative is Phil has a history of using the media to challenge his players, but in his arrogance he forgot one important thing: You can push the envelope when you already have a core of hall of famers. They may not like your comments, but they also might not give a flying F. They might not even think Phil is something special.
But when Phil starts acting like he can mindfuk a franchise into existence from scratch using his same demeanor then he really doesn't understand he was so successful primarily because he lucked into the best players of all time. His chit doesn't play with broken down clubs.
So when you get him making public back-handed comments ostensibly meant to shame Tyson, you have to wonder if Phil is really that bright. After all, Tyson was DPOY and won a ring and when he was in a groove, he was an X factor that Melo will never be. Maybe, oh maybe, Phil could have figured out there was in fact a cultural issue due to chemistry issues on the club and that even if Tyson was being a dick you don't just go and devalue your best asset by running them down.
Phil is an arrogant fuk and not as smart as he thinks he is. He actually had the cojones to dispose of Tyson and put his ego before the common sense requirements of asset management.
Phil is not that different from Dolan. Either you're with him or you're not. And like a mafioso, Phil would rather snuff you out than make sensible business decisions.
Splat wrote:The Knicks had offers for Tyson in the prior season. Phil was already involved behind the scenes.Not sure what your time line is. Phil was involved with the group trying to buy the Kings and move them to Seattle until the sale was complete in late May of 2013.
CrushAlot wrote:Splat wrote:The Knicks had offers for Tyson in the prior season. Phil was already involved behind the scenes.Not sure what your time line is. Phil was involved with the group trying to buy the Kings and move them to Seattle until the sale was complete in late May of 2013.
Phil was definitely advising on personnel decisions before the trade deadline passed last season.
Splat wrote:I agree with that.CrushAlot wrote:Splat wrote:The Knicks had offers for Tyson in the prior season. Phil was already involved behind the scenes.Not sure what your time line is. Phil was involved with the group trying to buy the Kings and move them to Seattle until the sale was complete in late May of 2013.Phil was definitely advising on personnel decisions before the trade deadline passed last season.
TPercy wrote:We could have had Jeff teague for crying out loud but phill wanted to "Evaluate" our players.
Phil could have evaluated everyone very quickly. If he was even watching games during his vacation days he'd pretty much know who was who. When he signed on for the gig he had access to plenty of data and opinions on existing players.
Timmy could have been traded for a first rounder. We could have gotten Lowry. There were offers. Now he's essentially worthless.
Supposedly Tim was full of upside after being a decent rookie, but all of the holes in his game we see in spades this year were completely visible last season. It is just that people didn't want to focus on the negatives, because he was having some good games.
But Phil should have known Tim was what we know him to be now and a good GM would have figured out that getting a # 1 or a top player for Timmy was a steal.
Just one of many things Phil did wrong by sitting on his hands and then selling off everything for pennies on the dollar. He truly doesn't know what he is doing.
gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.
this is ridiculous. never knew you to be a believer in gossip columns.
phil traded tyson because he quit on the team and his trade value was as low as it was going to be. plus he didnt fit phils vision of style of play. how you guys blame melo in this (now i'm going to be pointed at as a "melo lover" for saying that) is beyond dumb.
Splat wrote:TPercy wrote:We could have had Jeff teague for crying out loud but phill wanted to "Evaluate" our players.Phil could have evaluated everyone very quickly. If he was even watching games during his vacation days he'd pretty much know who was who. When he signed on for the gig he had access to plenty of data and opinions on existing players.
Timmy could have been traded for a first rounder. We could have gotten Lowry. There were offers. Now he's essentially worthless.
Supposedly Tim was full of upside after being a decent rookie, but all of the holes in his game we see in spades this year were completely visible last season. It is just that people didn't want to focus on the negatives, because he was having some good games.
But Phil should have known Tim was what we know him to be now and a good GM would have figured out that getting a # 1 or a top player for Timmy was a steal.
Just one of many things Phil did wrong by sitting on his hands and then selling off everything for pennies on the dollar. He truly doesn't know what he is doing.
true, Phill has the right intent on what he wanted to do , its just that from the beginning until the trade for shved he had either been doing it the wrong way consistently, or ,like you said, he was doing something he should have done a long tie ago. Phil has this FA to show if he has learned from his mistakes.
nyk4ever wrote:gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.this is ridiculous. never knew you to be a believer in gossip columns.
phil traded tyson because he quit on the team and his trade value was as low as it was going to be. plus he didnt fit phils vision of style of play. how you guys blame melo in this (now i'm going to be pointed at as a "melo lover" for saying that) is beyond dumb.
What? Did you see that the Cavs gave up two first round picks for Mozgov and thunder i think gave up perkins and Jackson for Kanter.
TPercy wrote:nyk4ever wrote:gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.this is ridiculous. never knew you to be a believer in gossip columns.
phil traded tyson because he quit on the team and his trade value was as low as it was going to be. plus he didnt fit phils vision of style of play. how you guys blame melo in this (now i'm going to be pointed at as a "melo lover" for saying that) is beyond dumb.
What? Did you see that the Cavs gave up two first round picks for Mozgov and thunder i think gave up perkins and Jackson for Kanter.
LOL
newyorknewyork wrote:mreinman wrote:Chandler, who has addressed the lack of ball movement on several occasions this season, did not mention Anthony by name either on Saturday or Sunday. But Chandler, who was badly outplayed by Pacers center Roy Hibbert in Game 3, seemed to be referring to his All-Star teammate when he said on Sunday that there were moments when “you want to take over the game or you want to make a big shot where you (should) stick to the game plan. A good team wins basketball games. Unless you’re a great, great, great, great individual…and we only have a few of those come through.”Who do you think that he was talking about?
C'mon! Of course Tyson hated playing with Melo. He is a team player and Melo is frustrating to play with if you are a team player.
Maybe if the former 2nd overall pick developed his game then he could have have been skilled or capable of helping offensively creating for others and creating this ball movement.
Tyson Chandler with his 0.8 ast per game wants to talk about ball movement.
he's a finisher and he's pretty good at it. and with a career average 20% usage rate you should not be expecting assists. his critique is spot on.
NardDogNation wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyk4ever wrote:gunsnewing wrote:crzymdups wrote:Dude came back IN-SEASON from a BROKEN LEG.And led the Knicks to a 16-5 finish.
That was more Amare. Remember Tyson left the team for a handful of games late in the year and the reason was never disclosed. He was not fully engaged. The feud with Melo was too strong at that point
LOL you're making this a carmelo thing? you're starting to sound like splat.
if tyson gets disengaged because of his feelings being hurt by melo, then he truly is even more of a pussy than i thought.
Tyson is an NBA Champion. Raise your hand if you think Melo will ever even play in the Finals.
Uh, Melo definitely has the talent/skill to be a starter on a championship team. Will he ever get teammates good enough to help him get there is the question.
nah i am not so sure. he has some talent as a scorer but that does not translate to being a starter on a championship team. what skills you need are defense and the ability to create for others or at the very least keep the ball moving. it has been the main criticism of his game and it is also why his teams have chronically underachieved.
his best shot at winning in new york is as a sixth man, vinnie johnson/mark aguirre type... and this is with the major assumption of acquiring real two-way players in the next two years. players like towns for instance (cauley-stein would also be great), but NOT players like okafor and russell.
dk7th wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:mreinman wrote:Chandler, who has addressed the lack of ball movement on several occasions this season, did not mention Anthony by name either on Saturday or Sunday. But Chandler, who was badly outplayed by Pacers center Roy Hibbert in Game 3, seemed to be referring to his All-Star teammate when he said on Sunday that there were moments when “you want to take over the game or you want to make a big shot where you (should) stick to the game plan. A good team wins basketball games. Unless you’re a great, great, great, great individual…and we only have a few of those come through.”Who do you think that he was talking about?
C'mon! Of course Tyson hated playing with Melo. He is a team player and Melo is frustrating to play with if you are a team player.
Maybe if the former 2nd overall pick developed his game then he could have have been skilled or capable of helping offensively creating for others and creating this ball movement.
Tyson Chandler with his 0.8 ast per game wants to talk about ball movement.
he's a finisher and he's pretty good at it. and with a career average 20% usage rate you should not be expecting assists. his critique is spot on.
He has a 20% usage rate because his offensive game sucks. 2nd overall pick and been in the league over 10 yrs.. Yet excuses are being made for him. Maybe if he put in the work to develop his offensive game he would be capable of creating assist for others. Or can be relied on offensively in big moments.
Rather the Roy Hibbert never leaving the paint because he knows damn well Tyson Chandler isn't going to hurt him. So the pick and roll (the only way Tyson can score other then put backs, but forget about that since Roy Hibbert owned him) shut down since Tyson can't put the ball on the floor or shoot consistently. Penetration shut down since Roy Hibbert didn't have the leave the paint.
Yet he wants to run his mouth? But its okay as long as he is talking bad about Melo.
TripleThreat wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Question is who's to blame Dolan or Phil?
I think the Chandler trade was a disaster, but IMHO it's an entirely separate issue than the situation where Woodson was allowed to run a post game press conference.I think the Clippers were classless. DeAndre Jordan was classless by mocking the Knicks. Doc Rivers is classless ( his response to criticism by Bill Simmons shows he's a classless mercenary ) by letting Woodson take the mic just to get in free shots at his old team. There was no other reason for it.
Rivers just seems to get alot of credit for happening to be a black coach on a team where the rest of the NBA owners jettisoned a long time racist to ensure a billion dollar ( times two) purchase of a premium franchise.
Woodson should take the high road here. Or should have, to be more exact. If he wanted vindication, watching the Knicks lose the way they have should be enough. But maybe it's his karma for helping to railroad Jeremy Lin just because Melo wanted it that way.
You are obsessed, man. I get it, you aren't bamboozled by the shiftiness and shenanigans of the American Negro.
DrAlphaeus wrote:TripleThreat wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Question is who's to blame Dolan or Phil?
I think the Chandler trade was a disaster, but IMHO it's an entirely separate issue than the situation where Woodson was allowed to run a post game press conference.I think the Clippers were classless. DeAndre Jordan was classless by mocking the Knicks. Doc Rivers is classless ( his response to criticism by Bill Simmons shows he's a classless mercenary ) by letting Woodson take the mic just to get in free shots at his old team. There was no other reason for it.
Rivers just seems to get alot of credit for happening to be a black coach on a team where the rest of the NBA owners jettisoned a long time racist to ensure a billion dollar ( times two) purchase of a premium franchise.
Woodson should take the high road here. Or should have, to be more exact. If he wanted vindication, watching the Knicks lose the way they have should be enough. But maybe it's his karma for helping to railroad Jeremy Lin just because Melo wanted it that way.
You are obsessed, man. I get it, you aren't bamboozled by the shiftiness and shenanigans of the American Negro.
I think you're like the only other guy who has called him out; he's definitely had some doozies in the past. It amuses me how a racist can love a sport that his/her race doesn't dominate. In a way, I suppose he deserves some credit in that respect, lol.