Knicks · Cory Joseph (page 1)

This is the PG upgrade I'd like to see. Jeremy Lin's my 2nd choice but this guy Joseph should be our man. Like a lot of reserves around the league, this dude has real potential to be much more than a backup and unlike a lot of these RFAs, I think he's obtainable...I like that he's been coached up by arguably the best NBA franchise & head coach and that he's got championship experience that's rare for someone his age. Guys go 15 years in the NBA with no championship. This kid's been to a couple already and won one last year. That's invaluable experience that he can take with him. He knows what it take to get there--the sacrifice, the extreme amount of dedication, etc.. Then there's the talent which is evident: 6'3", not a real speedster but very crafty getting to the rim with a powerful final two steps finishing, very good mid-range game and he can hit the 3. Good handle and a fine passer...This is a true PG, light years ahead of Langston Galloway -- not some limited guard that can't penetrate, can't finish and gives up his dribble. He's the polar opposite--a guy that's gonna maintain his dribble and see a play through to the end -- either he's gonna set someone up in a position to score or he's gonna go get a bucket himself. Only 23 years old, I think this guy's best days are ahead of him and he should have a nice long career. His floor is a better Ramon Sessions and his ceiling is something close to Tony Parker. In fact, whenever I'm watching the Spurs play and I'm not right on top of the TV, it's hard to tell right away if I'm watching Joseph or Parker out there at first glance -- they're around the same size and have very similar games. You can tell that Joseph probably patterns his game after Parker. Having Parker around as a mentor since he's been in the league hasn't exactly been a bad thing either.

I think this guy's ready to run his own team. The question is -- what's the number? How much do we offer for SA to say forget it? A contract starting at $8mm? More? $10mm?? If Lin's number is around $5mm per, this guy's has got to be more. I think this is the guy we go after first with a big surprise offer, then after he's locked up, go after a few more mid-level type pieces to fill out the roster -- Alexis Ajinca, Gerald Green, Lavoy Allen, etc...You wanna tell me Langston Galloway's on the team and Shved's gonna see time handling the ball (if he's even retained), fine, but I'd like to see Fish get a real honest to goodness PG upgrade to work with next year. I want someone good and qualified to drive the bus finally; not a SG out of position masquerading as a point. You can't tell me we'll have $30-33mm to spend in FA and not go after a legit PG upgrade. A PG's got to be on the shopping list. With no 2nd round pick this year, no picks next year, I think there's an urgency to go get a floor general this summer. I think this guy could be a good one.

Cory is on the list for sure. I feel the young FA's are well worth investing in. You can get better value. Cory is #25 on my Win Share 48 list right above Khris Middleton, another quality young player i'd like to go after.

I would love to get him for 7-8 million per.

nixluva wrote:Cory is on the list for sure. I feel the young FA's are well worth investing in. You can get better value. Cory is #25 on my Win Share 48 list right above Khris Middleton, another quality young player i'd like to go after.

Agree totally on targeting the younger FAs for max value. And on Middleton, I like him too, I just think he's gonna be hard to get. His contract could approach the max and if it does, it's difficult seeing Milwaukee not matching (RFA). Someone, Briggs maybe, made an Allan Houston comparison with Middleton as a similar young player with potential when Allan was with Detroit before his big breakout years and as a max contract candidate -- it was a good comparison that I agree with on both counts. I think a good alternative might be Gerald Green. Similar big guard at 6'8". Middleton and Danny Green are younger and arguably better than Gerald, but they'll probably cost more. Gerald might be more of a possibility. Hey maybe I'm way off and Middleton is obtainable. We definitely need to look into him because he's a player and could be big here. Back to Cory Joseph -- he may cost some but shouldn't be anywhere near the max. That's the big difference and puts us right smack in the conversation. There's definitely a number that the Spurs won't go past, I wonder what that is. Any ideas? The Spurs have Patty Mills as the primary backup PG and also are armed with picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds the next 2 years. You figure they could easily turn to the draft to find a replacement for Joseph. We don't have that luxury.

mreinman wrote:I would love to get him for 7-8 million per.

Sounds about right. I might even go a little further to ensure getting it done.

I like cory Josep, Efficient shooter and consistent driver to the rime with good vision. In the triangle when he hands it off to the big man, in stead of doing the mid range(shoots at 45% clip from there) He would go all the way to the rim or kick it out to the open guy

I don't think cory getting that kinda dough...

IMO always a good move to try and pilfer young players from the Spurs if you can. You know they've been developed properly and have the right make up.

nixluva wrote:IMO always a good move to try and pilfer young players from the Spurs if you can. You know they've been developed properly and have the right make up.

Yup, I would take anyone on that roster and put him into our st lineup

i agree im a fan! hidden talent

he's good but there's a question of fit in the triangle...

to me langston is a perfect fit and already comes at a low cost... he is basically the right handed version of derek fisher in LA with more athleticism and a guy like him will be perpetually undervalued since his best fit is the triangle... langston's greatest weakness is creating shots for himself and others and the triangle takes those decisions out of his hands basically...

that goes for any top flight pg as well... they'd be under utilized here so i think it's best if we concentrate at the other positions...

cory joseph is a fine player though and i think he'd be great in a sixer uniform...

FistOfOakley wrote:he's good but there's a question of fit in the triangle...

to me langston is a perfect fit and already comes at a low cost... he is basically the right handed version of derek fisher in LA with more athleticism and a guy like him will be perpetually undervalued since his best fit is the triangle... langston's greatest weakness is creating shots for himself and others and the triangle takes those decisions out of his hands basically...

that goes for any top flight pg as well... they'd be under utilized here so i think it's best if we concentrate at the other positions...

cory joseph is a fine player though and i think he'd be great in a sixer uniform...

I don't know about that. Cory is being brought up in a system that isn't much different than the Triangle. It's about ball and player movement and not ball dominant PG play. Now that doesn't mean the PG doesn't get to use his skills. Just that he's not holding onto the ball and controlling it the entire time, every time down. A Guard still needs to be able to drive and Kick, run PnR, Give and go etc. It just comes after the ball is moving and they have to make a decision to go with one of those options or shoot. Not just stand there pounding the ball. Just look at this video breakdown of the Spurs offense.

FistOfOakley wrote:he's good but there's a question of fit in the triangle...

to me langston is a perfect fit and already comes at a low cost... he is basically the right handed version of derek fisher in LA with more athleticism and a guy like him will be perpetually undervalued since his best fit is the triangle... langston's greatest weakness is creating shots for himself and others and the triangle takes those decisions out of his hands basically...

that goes for any top flight pg as well... they'd be under utilized here so i think it's best if we concentrate at the other positions...

cory joseph is a fine player though and i think he'd be great in a sixer uniform...

See, I just don't agree at all. Not with you per se Fist -- thanks for posting, I think you're dead one. I think this is how Phil thinks and how avid Triangle followers think. I just can't get behind it. My contention will always be F the Triangle, give me the best players/the best talent you can find. The best you can draft. The best money can buy. I give you one good reason that just popped into my head as I'm typing this response: What if Dolan has enough and shit-cans Phil and his staff next year, the year after etc.? What, that can't happen? Of course it can. Jimmy Dolan we're talking about here folks. What has this guy ever been patient enough to see through to the end? So then what? I'll tell you what--then we're stuck holding the bag on players that fit some system and may not be good enough to play in anyone else's and to challenge the other top teams in the NBA...Look at how Pat Riley put the Heat together -- you think he was thinking system fit when he assembled that team? Come on...

No way, man. I can never get behind this. To take it further, and this goes back to discussions we've had when Phil first got here, I want top players -- I cannot get behind by-passing top players in favor of some system. This is NYC, the Mecca, the NY Knicks -- we're God-awful and have been since day 1 this year. A complete laughing stock and one of the worst teams in the history of the sport. What does that say about the team Phil assembled? He thought it was good enough to make the playoffs. I may have even agreed in the beginning like a lot of us, completely naive and caught up in Zen... Man, do I know better now. Phil can play with his triangles all he wants -- no problem. It's actually not a bad system. You've got to have structure, order, discipline, a gameplan. I get that. But for Chirst's sake--get the best talent you can get to play within the system please, for all that's holy!!! I want a talent-rich team assembled now. No excuses -- We're gonna have a top 4 pick (I can only pray it's top 2) with $30-something million in cap room to spend and maybe more next year when they're expected to raise the cap considerably. I want that money spent on premium talent. It can't be Carmelo Anthony (about the furthest thing from a "triangle" player that you can ever see incidentally, yet Phil gave him $125mm to return ) and a bunch of role players. We had that this year and the plane never got off the runway. Melo's not Jordan/Pippen and he's not Kobe/Shaq. You wanna build it around him, fine. What's done is done. Go get the man some real help now!! Remember, Phil as a coach always had the best two players in the sport at the time with each team. Let's not kid ourselves--that was the main ingredient for all his success as a coach--not the triangle, not the role players, not his BS Zen. Nothing else...Hey just my opinion, others will disagree I'm sure but without that, this man doesn't rack up anywhere near the number of wins he did as a coach. I don't even see how anyone can debate this.

Back to Cory Joseph -- not that he's even some top flight player. He's not but he could develop into one. That's what makes him intriguing. More importantly, he's head and shoulders better than Langston Galloway. Why can't he or any other better-than-average PG execute within the triangle? A good PG will not only execute this system in his sleep, he can also give you more -- penetration when needed, the ability to push the ball when it's there, etc.. Look at Alexey Shved -- look what this dude was doing off the dribble before he got hurt and he's not even a natural/prototypical PG. Were we playing better, our best ball of the year in fact, with Alexey spearheading the attack playing aggressive, attacking rim, etc.? YES, we were. Langston Galloway can't do any of that. Galloway's looking to give the ball up like a hot potato as soon as he crosses the timeline. That's even if he brings the ball up. Galloway's not a PG -- he's a guy that'll take one or two dribbles and pull up from mid-range (his best quality) or catch and shoot from the perimeter off some decent ball movement. An undersized, limited as F 6'2" SG.. We need more than that, man. I remember saying it back when and I'll say it again -- give me a well-rounded PG that can adapt to any situation thrown at him and also go out and get a bucket when things break down. I hope to God the plan isn't to feature Galloway as a primary guard on this team next year. Any hypothetical roster configuration I've come up with on this board going back weeks now may have included Galloway but only because I know they like him and will keep him around, not because I love his game and consider him some cornerstone piece for us. He's a deep reserve on this team next year imo. A 3rd team guy, 11-15 on the roster.. If he has a more important role, God forbid to play heavy mins., run the team, handle the ball, keep his dribble and develop plays/see plays through, orchestrate, etc. (things the man simply can't do), then something went horribly wrong.

Thanks Fist -- I get up to take a piss and check in here real quick to see what's cookin' and wind up going off like a mad man! LMAO!!

Finestrg wrote: If Lin's number is around $5mm per...

A minor point and a bit off topic, but what makes you think that's Lin's number? I doubt he gets that much next year.

Panos wrote:

Finestrg wrote: If Lin's number is around $5mm per...

A minor point and a bit off topic, but what makes you think that's Lin's number? I doubt he gets that much next year.

I think that he gets at least 5. Hard to find any PG with a brain right now.