y2zipper wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:y2zipper wrote:nyk4ever wrote:why are we in such a rush to throw our cap space around? monroe isn't going to be worth the money he's going to ask for, so why give it to him? especially if we draft a guy like towns, we don't need to put monroe next to him, we can find a much cheaper alternative that fits next to towns.and to speak on what code said.... imagine a defensive frontcourt of towns and deandre jordan? im not really in love with jordan and he'd command a ton of money, but that frontcourt would be insane defensively, they'd be blocking shots left and right and it's pretty efficient offensively as well. jordan comes at quite a price though.
DeAndre Jordan isn't actually a good defensive player. He gets blocks, but the Clippers are a below-average defensive team that plays better with him off the court, and that's with Chris Paul (who's the best perimeter defender in basketball) and Matt Barnes in the lineup, who is also good defensively.
The Clippers are +8.4 points per 48 with Jordan on the court and +0.4 with him off.
http://www.82games.com/1415/1415LAC.HTM
I was talking strictly defensively, where the Clippers defensive rating improves by 2.2 points per 48 minutes when he's off the court. The idea that he's a great defensive player is a myth, but he's offensively efficient because he has mid-range players around him that complement the limited skill-set that his game is. Signing him to a max contract is akin to overpaying another Tyson Chandler except he's worse defensively than Chandler.
The on/off net 48 team defense rating is a mediocre and at times egregiouly bad measure of individual defensive contributions and should not be used as a catch all metric. The calculated individual defensive rating (Oliver) is itself somewhat limited by extrapolation from 5 man units but the on/off team net statistic often is severely skewed by background subtraction of the replacement player ratings in the context of their 2nd unit opponents. If you don't believe me, consider that the metric puts Roy hibbert at -2.5, jimmy butler at -3, the aforementioned Chris Paul at -1.7, former DPOY March Gasol at -5.3, David west at -4.8, Taj Gibson at -0.8 and Tim Duncan at an ordinary + 1.0.
In comparison, Jordan's individual calculated defensive rating is 98, slightly superior to Noah, Hibbert, Gasol, equivalent to Rudy Gobert and just 1 less than Duncan. His clutch defense rating is also good and corroborates the larger data set.
Monroe being in town for the season finale is just perfect
one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
I could think of far worse though it will continue to phuck up our defense.
fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
I'd rather have kanter and I think knicks fans who have paid attention would rather kanter than Monroe. I said it a month ago phils secret was to draft stein and sign monroe
Kanter is a black hole. Melo will love him
Kanter is also far worst defensively
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
I don't want Cousins, either.
crzymdups wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
I don't want Cousins, either.
We're leaving out that Monroe rebounds well and passes well. He played in the Princeton Offense in college and has a good BB IQ. He may not be perfect but he fits a lot of the needs of a big in our system. In the end we may not even get him. We have to see who we draft first. If we end up with Okafor I don't see us signing Monroe.
yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
dont want jordan. thats tyson all over again.
I want a stretch 4.
mreinman wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
dont want jordan. thats tyson all over again.
I want a stretch 4.
Jordan would be your 5, not precluding a shooting 4. Monroe is a 4, leaving you needing a shooting and defensive 5 - other than Towns, you're left and high and dry.
codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
dont want jordan. thats tyson all over again.
I want a stretch 4.
Jordan would be your 5, not precluding a shooting 4. Monroe is a 4, leaving you needing a shooting and defensive 5 - other than Towns, you're left and high and dry.
I'd take Jordan problem is there is no chance he'd sign here
BRIGGS wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
dont want jordan. thats tyson all over again.
I want a stretch 4.
Jordan would be your 5, not precluding a shooting 4. Monroe is a 4, leaving you needing a shooting and defensive 5 - other than Towns, you're left and high and dry.
I'd take Jordan problem is there is no chance he'd sign here
so you like Jordan but you don't care for Stein?
I like D Jordan, but I can't see him leaving the Clippers. I could sooner see the Clippers trading Blake than letting Jordan go.
Stein would be 4th or 5th on my board - I think he's going to be very good. He reminds me so much of Tyson though, it'd be funny to see Phil take him after giving Tyson away.
Lol....at the game and Monroe got some cheers in pregame intros from Knicks fans. We have a bad habit of cheering for guys that aren't on our team yet
mreinman wrote:BRIGGS wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:codeunknown wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:one of the things you have to like about Monroe is we cant phuck this up too bad. Worst case we overpay for a productive big who is very durable and start him around $15mm.
He's an offensive big man who shoots under 50% and can't hit the mid-range jumper
I think there are worse ways to spend $15M... (Bargnani, Eddy Curry, etc) but not too many.
You just described Boogie Cousins. Greg might not shoot over 50% but he still has decent efficiency for a post big,
he is brutal outside of 3 feet.
I don't like Monroe on this team with Melo - it's a spacing nightmare. You can also expect, with Melo, a certain degree of poor shot selection and I want the best rebounder cleaning up the mess. To me, Deandre Jordan is that player.
dont want jordan. thats tyson all over again.
I want a stretch 4.
Jordan would be your 5, not precluding a shooting 4. Monroe is a 4, leaving you needing a shooting and defensive 5 - other than Towns, you're left and high and dry.
I'd take Jordan problem is there is no chance he'd sign here
so you like Jordan but you don't care for Stein?
Is that surprising to you?
