Knicks · Article "Greg Monroe to Knicks done deal" (page 3)

gunsnewing wrote:David Falk. Jordan and Ewings old agent

So he is going to get paid.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:I go back to the fact that there are only a finite group of players worth going after in this Free Agent Market. We have very little chance at the best of those players and only a limited amount of cap on top of that. So that being the case we are going to have to go after the next level of players. That leads to guys like Monroe, Matthews, Danny Green etc.

Phil just talked to fans about settling for player after not getting who fits what you are doing..He said signing Amare was a mistake..

Monroe is 24 yr old Post big who can pass. That fits, but he's not Marc Gasol. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Monroe would be a good upgrade for this team. This isn't a situation where you can take an absolutist approach. Just cuz we can't get the best big man Free Agent does't mean that no other free agent big is worth going after.

Look at Detriot, they were losing at a high rate with him..Without him, they were winning..Plain as day..I just hope these reports are wrong..

That means absolutely nothing. We won't be playing anything like Detroit. Phil has had so much success with bigs like Monroe in this system that it's a clear fit. Don't talk to me about the damn Pistons when we have an offense that's proven to work with post bigs. They may do better without him but that has no bearing on how he'd fit in our system. Just like how Schved looked so much better in our system than he did on other teams.

Look at KLove, another non impact guy..His team didn't win with him in Minny..He has been zero impact in Cleveland..And I like KLove..DLee the same thing..

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:David Falk. Jordan and Ewings old agent

So he is going to get paid.

Oh yeah he's going to get paid just like a lot of these guys. The whole idea of Free Agency is for these players to get paid so IMO that's no surprise tho some think it's not about the money, when clearly it is. Monroe's max isn't anywhere near as big as older vets, which makes him a perfect guy to go after. Aside from a rookie it's hard to get a good player at an affordable rate. Even Maxed out Monroe would leave us with cash to go after another Free Agent or 2.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:I go back to the fact that there are only a finite group of players worth going after in this Free Agent Market. We have very little chance at the best of those players and only a limited amount of cap on top of that. So that being the case we are going to have to go after the next level of players. That leads to guys like Monroe, Matthews, Danny Green etc.

Phil just talked to fans about settling for player after not getting who fits what you are doing..He said signing Amare was a mistake..

Monroe is 24 yr old Post big who can pass. That fits, but he's not Marc Gasol. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Monroe would be a good upgrade for this team. This isn't a situation where you can take an absolutist approach. Just cuz we can't get the best big man Free Agent does't mean that no other free agent big is worth going after.

Look at Detriot, they were losing at a high rate with him..Without him, they were winning..Plain as day..I just hope these reports are wrong..

That means absolutely nothing. We won't be playing anything like Detroit. Phil has had so much success with bigs like Monroe in this system that it's a clear fit. Don't talk to me about the damn Pistons when we have an offense that's proven to work with post bigs. They may do better without him but that has no bearing on how he'd fit in our system. Just like how Schved looked so much better in our system than he did on other teams.

Look at KLove, another non impact guy..His team didn't win with him in Minny..He has been zero impact in Cleveland..And I like KLove..DLee the same thing..

I understand what you're getting at, but we have to build a team and can't do that on nothing. You think Monroe wouldn't have an impact and I'm telling you in this system that he would have an impact. The guys we're playing now aren't good enough and he'll be a much more efficient player than any of the bigs we have. He'll make the rest of the offense work much better since he can actually play in the low post. It would most certainly be an upgrade and along with the other upgrades it will collectively be a huge impact for this team.

PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	40	40	35.7	24.2	1.8	4.8	6.6	3.1	1.00	0.43	2.2	2.2	1.4	21.6
Greg Monroe, PF	        66	54	31.2	16.1	3.5	7.0	10.5	2.0	1.08	0.50	2.2	2.1	0.9	21.2
Cole Aldrich, C	        58	13	15.7	5.1	1.6	3.7	5.3	1.2	0.62	1.07	1.0	2.0	1.3	17.0
Andrea Bargnani, C	29	22	27.1	14.8	1.1	3.3	4.4	1.6	0.07	0.93	1.4	1.8	1.1	16.8
Jason Smith, PF	        79	28	21.5	7.8	1.2	2.7	3.8	1.6	0.39	0.48	1.2	2.5	1.3	11.6
Lou Amundson, PF†	38	35	21.0	6.0	2.3	3.9	6.2	1.6	0.47	1.26	1.2	2.8	1.3	12.9

Not of you guys see the real reason for Phil's fascination with Monroe (if there is one).

He's a left handed big man like Willis Reed (and Phil, himself);

His last name is Monroe, just like a guy the Knicks once one a title with;

and he went to the same college as Ewing.

Its in the stars, and who is going to question fate- surely not Zen-Master Phil.

I'm not happy about this. Not saying that he's a bad player. But if this prevents us drafting towns...I'll be pissed!!!!

callmened wrote:I'm not happy about this. Not saying that he's a bad player. But if this prevents us drafting towns...I'll be pissed!!!!

This would have no impact on drafting Towns. Phil either has a shot at Towns or he doesn't. If Towns is there when we pick I feel Phil takes him. If you have the #1 pick it's the only sure thing where you can get the guy you want. Other than that it's a bit out of your control. I see no way that Phil passes over Towns if he has the chance to take him.

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:He is a zero impact player..Why would anyone max out a guy who has no impact on wins?

James Dolan has been torn apart by fans and the sports media for years. By hiring Phil Jackson for big bucks and resigning Melo for big bucks and taking a "step back" he can say he did everything he could to try to win. He can try to pass the buck on blame.

Melo has been torn apart by the fans and sports media for years as a guy who just can't get over the hump and the kind of player that you just can't build around and build a true winner/contender. He can say he tried and try to say he wanted to be loyal to the Knicks or whatever other force fed thing Leon Rose of CAA will tell him to say but will still find a way to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Phil Jackson has recently been torn apart by the media and fans and honestly his legacy of 'rings' isn't going to hold much water much longer after a season like this. He can say he tried to win, but silently pass the blame to his 'franchise player' and the condition of the team he inherited from the "worst owner in sports"

You've got three big impact guys in the franchise who have more at stake with their personal legacy/public perception than they do about winning and the best future for the Knicks as a franchise.

If Monroe gets the max, this is a bona fide treadmill team. This will be a no defense team that will float in that 7th to 9th in the East limbo for the next four years. When Jackson and Melo are gone, the team will have to start over and reboot from scratch, which they should have started doing last year.

Monroe is a face saving narrative for three power players who don't actually seem to really care about the Knicks as a team. To me, it's not about wins anymore, it's about how they are going to carve up the blame in the future.

I keep saying it since this offseason, but really how hard is it to screw up a NBA franchise rebuild?

Hire a young up and coming GM prospect. Trade any veteran players with trade value ( Melo) that won't fit into a rebuild timeline with their contract. Don't go after the same kind of players in the past, that kill cap flexibility, that have brought the team into the current hell in the first place. Take a solid and steady long term approach to a rebuild, much like most of the current contenders had to do.

I mean how do you get a rebuild like this wrong? I mean there are some ballboys in the league who can figure out what the Knicks really need to do structurally to build for their future. It's actually pathetic that the Knicks brain trust is directly moving towards a treadmill team and only delaying the inevitable full on rebuild needed for this team. Again, it's like a person who tries to avoid the dentist when the drilling is going to happen anyway. All you are doing is letting the rotten tooth fester and then suffering in pain for nothing.

Sam Hinkie 2.0?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. But for players up to 6 yrs experience the max salary is roughly $15 mill?

PG mo williams (or any stop gap PG) $4mill
SG danny green $8mill
SF melo
PF Monroe (max $15 mill)
C Towns
----------
bench
PG Shved
SG hardaway
SF Ledo
PF Lavoy Allen/O'Quinn $2mill
C B.Wright/ajinca $4mill
--------------
Scrubs
PG Larkin
SG Galloway
SF Early
PF Amundsen
C Bynum

- about $35 mill in cap space
- buy out jose calderon

Weak defense at the 4 and weak defense at the 3? Phil said signing Amare was a mistake, he'll be making the same one signing Monroe. I'm sorry but you cant place over half of your cap space on a guy like Monroe when you dont even have a built team in place. We only have 25 mil in space, not 40.

Going on the assumption that this is true, it might be a hedge against Phil not getting the first pick in the draft. Phil might not believe that its necessarily a choice between OK4, Towns, and Cauley Stein. Maybe he only likes one of them. If the player he wants isn't there, Phil might take a guard. Address the front court and back court, with the signing of Monroe.

As someone tweeted during Phil's town hall meeting, most of the scoring that Okafor does is where Melo likes to operate. This might be Phil trying to cover the bases.

gunsnewing wrote:This reminds me of stealing H20 from Detroit in 96.

Give me a Towns/Monroe/Melo frontline and the rest is icing

Yup- only time we've been successful with a free agent was when we took a gamble on a young player with upside. I know Monroe isn't perfect or a game changer, but hopefully he can give us something we haven't had in a long long time- consistent scoring and rebounding from the PF/C position.

holfresh wrote:He is a zero impact player..Why would anyone max out a guy who has no impact on wins?

Unfortunately the max guys who impact wins, don't really make it to free agency. Hopefully we bag one in the draft, to go alongside Melo. That means we can afford to max out a guy who is consistent, and fill out the roster with cheap impact players.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:I go back to the fact that there are only a finite group of players worth going after in this Free Agent Market. We have very little chance at the best of those players and only a limited amount of cap on top of that. So that being the case we are going to have to go after the next level of players. That leads to guys like Monroe, Matthews, Danny Green etc.

Phil just talked to fans about settling for player after not getting who fits what you are doing..He said signing Amare was a mistake..

Monroe is 24 yr old Post big who can pass. That fits, but he's not Marc Gasol. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Monroe would be a good upgrade for this team. This isn't a situation where you can take an absolutist approach. Just cuz we can't get the best big man Free Agent does't mean that no other free agent big is worth going after.

Look at Detriot, they were losing at a high rate with him..Without him, they were winning..Plain as day..I just hope these reports are wrong..

They also won at a high rate with him, after they traded Josh Smith and before they traded for Reggie Jackson.

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:I go back to the fact that there are only a finite group of players worth going after in this Free Agent Market. We have very little chance at the best of those players and only a limited amount of cap on top of that. So that being the case we are going to have to go after the next level of players. That leads to guys like Monroe, Matthews, Danny Green etc.

Phil just talked to fans about settling for player after not getting who fits what you are doing..He said signing Amare was a mistake..

Monroe is 24 yr old Post big who can pass. That fits, but he's not Marc Gasol. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Monroe would be a good upgrade for this team. This isn't a situation where you can take an absolutist approach. Just cuz we can't get the best big man Free Agent does't mean that no other free agent big is worth going after.

Look at Detriot, they were losing at a high rate with him..Without him, they were winning..Plain as day..I just hope these reports are wrong..

They also won at a high rate with him, after they traded Josh Smith and before they traded for Reggie Jackson.

That had alot to do with letting Brandon Jennings be the main option. When he scores alot, that team has won more. Monroe's scoring in particular is nearly the same in wins and losses.

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:David Falk. Jordan and Ewings old agent

So he is going to get paid.

He should get the max $15-16mil per. He is only 25 and putting up 16 & 10 next to Drummond. He is durable. I would pay $15mil for durability alone after the past 15yrw

Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

I agree. The only upside is if he improves a bit and the cap goes up as much as projected, then 16 mil per for him would be like 12 mil now.
I do still think there are better ways to use the money though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

I agree. The only upside is if he improves a bit and the cap goes up as much as projected, then 16 mil per for him would be like 12 mil now.
I do still think there are better ways to use the money though.

Defense is his issue and that rarely improves in players once coming into the league and being there for a minute. i agree there are better ways to spend the money. I'd rather not spend it on him and wait for a more complete player. But I do understand Phil cant go into next year with another losing team.