Knicks · Knicks give the fans what they want (page 1)

All season when the Knicks fans spent huge money and personal time hoping the knicks won lost very firkin game. They went through this brutal season to get to a point where a high pick is what they could have for enduring this season. Now they want to play to win to shy on Knicks fans one last time.

I think this is Dolan's Karma at work. We're just pawns in the great wheel getting ready to smash Dolan again.

I honestly wonder if Dolan cares about what he has done to the franchise?

So Briggs... just out of curiousity. I believe in your travels you have been in corporate environments. There are ideas and there is execution and implementation.

Losing is a good idea. It makes sense. It increases your odds in the draft and that increases the odds of your franchise and talent pool improving. I think all would agree with that.

Now for execution/implementation. What is the course of action your taking to ensure this? Are you telling Fisher to tell the players to toss the game? Maybe use some silly sub patterns?

If you are Phil, how do you go about executing on your idea. I would like to hear what the folks kicking and screaming about beating the Hawks or winning tonight think about this... Im honestly curious. Lets hear it.

Keep in mind the lottery is here in the first place to protect the integrity of the games... whats your plan?

The Knicks currently are one win better than the worst team in the league. We don't know what will happen tonight but it's hard to suggest that the Knicks have purposely screwed the fans. furthermore there is simply no way of knowing how the lottery will work out. The Knicks could still end up with the #1 pick. We just don't know. The only thing the worst record guarantees is the worst case scenario being a top 4 pick. Other than that it doesn't guarantee anything. Come lottery time we'll all be hoping for the best.

The good thing is that this is a draft that has several very nice prospects out beyond the top 4. I think the Knicks can still get a very good player even if they fell to #6.

fishmike wrote:So Briggs... just out of curiousity. I believe in your travels you have been in corporate environments. There are ideas and there is execution and implementation.

Losing is a good idea. It makes sense. It increases your odds in the draft and that increases the odds of your franchise and talent pool improving. I think all would agree with that.

Now for execution/implementation. What is the course of action your taking to ensure this? Are you telling Fisher to tell the players to toss the game? Maybe use some silly sub patterns?

If you are Phil, how do you go about executing on your idea. I would like to hear what the folks kicking and screaming about beating the Hawks or winning tonight think about this... Im honestly curious. Lets hear it.

Keep in mind the lottery is here in the first place to protect the integrity of the games... whats your plan?

Don't play Galloway hard away Aldrich and play smith 15 minutes. That will get it done

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:So Briggs... just out of curiousity. I believe in your travels you have been in corporate environments. There are ideas and there is execution and implementation.

Losing is a good idea. It makes sense. It increases your odds in the draft and that increases the odds of your franchise and talent pool improving. I think all would agree with that.

Now for execution/implementation. What is the course of action your taking to ensure this? Are you telling Fisher to tell the players to toss the game? Maybe use some silly sub patterns?

If you are Phil, how do you go about executing on your idea. I would like to hear what the folks kicking and screaming about beating the Hawks or winning tonight think about this... Im honestly curious. Lets hear it.

Keep in mind the lottery is here in the first place to protect the integrity of the games... whats your plan?

Don't play Galloway hard away Aldrich and play smith 15 minutes. That will get it done

dont play Galloway at all?

OK... fine. Detroit is done also. So what happens when Shane Larkin has a night like LG had the other night and shoots 10-12 and hits six 3's? What then? Do you pull him?

What about THjr? He sucks but is capable of getting hot also and droping 30. Got a plan for him?

Fish should suit up as well as Phil. Late season additions to the lineup. Get Herb Williams back. See if H20 is busy. SF, let's see, I saw Bill Bradley the other week at Clyde's birthday party. Play them all 48 minutes. Use wheelchairs if necessary.

Run the weave.

What a bunch of fukkin azzholes. Rooting, whining and beeyatching for ping pong.

You sound like a bunch of middleschool girls at a PMS convention.

I agree with Briggs, the Knicks have come to far to just throw the season away. All the hard work being thrown away with just a few victories. This franchise truly lives in the bizarro world.

Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

The T'Wolves know how to hold on to that worst record.

Knicks should've sat out Hardaway and Galloway last three games, IMHO.

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WTF are you guys talking about? Nothing has been thrown away. I prefer a guaranteed top 4 pick, but if we win our last game, it doesn't negate that, just makes our chances slightly less. A few percentage points. I agree with Fish' point: how are the Knicks supposed to game the system in the last couple of games and not look like chumps? We did a very good job of losing games this season. We will be in a prime position to land a lotto pick in the draft, possibly even the number 1. Worst record is not a sure thing, it is a 1 in 4 thing. So for those whining about a couple of wins, get over it. We had to rely on luck either way.

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

yea.. and there is this little thing, its called integrity of the game. Ive asked some of these posters for real world ideas on how best to do this but its really just temper tantrums. Knicks will be locked into a bottom 3 record and top 5 pick. The rest people can just get over. This is not the same as prior drafts.

fishmike wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

yea.. and there is this little thing, its called integrity of the game. Ive asked some of these posters for real world ideas on how best to do this but its really just temper tantrums. Knicks will be locked into a bottom 3 record and top 5 pick. The rest people can just get over. This is not the same as prior drafts.

Exactly. All this draft board prognostication and salary cap calculus... I'm pretty sure not one person on this board fell in love with the NBA and the Knicks because of that crap. Where the hell is our perspective?

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

Bullshit..After a season of losing and watching this miserable team night in and night out, we have a chance to get a decent player after our spirit as fans have been broken..I have never thought I could accept the Knicks losing in my entire life..This team broke me..I came to grips a few weeks ago and thought after watching the NCAA there is a sliver lining in all this..

After securing the best odds to get a decent player, it's time to start winning??..Come on..

Moonangie wrote:WTF are you guys talking about? Nothing has been thrown away. I prefer a guaranteed top 4 pick, but if we win our last game, it doesn't negate that, just makes our chances slightly less. A few percentage points. I agree with Fish' point: how are the Knicks supposed to game the system in the last couple of games and not look like chumps? We did a very good job of losing games this season. We will be in a prime position to land a lotto pick in the draft, possibly even the number 1. Worst record is not a sure thing, it is a 1 in 4 thing. So for those whining about a couple of wins, get over it. We had to rely on luck either way.

We will be more likely to win if more of our current young talent is properly developed and understand how to win. I know it's not as sexy as saying we have locked down a top 4 pick, but in truth we already have prospects on the team and they're very important too.

Galloway
Hardaway
Early
Acy
Larkin
Ledo
Aldrich
Schved

We will likely need many of these players to return and hopefully continue to develop and grow into solid role players if not more. We'll look to add Thanasis to the bunch and hopefully Labeyrie can show something this summer. It's not just our Draft Pick this summer. We have an entire franchise to build. The absolute worst we can do in this draft is #6. That's not a disaster in this draft. There are good players well past the 6th pick.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

yea.. and there is this little thing, its called integrity of the game. Ive asked some of these posters for real world ideas on how best to do this but its really just temper tantrums. Knicks will be locked into a bottom 3 record and top 5 pick. The rest people can just get over. This is not the same as prior drafts.

Exactly. All this draft board prognostication and salary cap calculus... I'm pretty sure not one person on this board fell in love with the NBA and the Knicks because of that crap. Where the hell is our perspective?

I think you play like hll for 79 games you don't go al out and lower the odds on a potential game changing pick for the next 12 years in some kind of absurd saving of face. If the Knicks players cared they would've done something 70 games ago. This is like a woman cheating on her man and saying well I didn't go with the 5 th guy. A little too late. So you use logic and do what's best for your franchise. No one can lose on purpose but u can put yourself into better position to lose at the direct end. It's not reasonable that we are trying to win a meaningless game when it's menaingful to lose.

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

Bullshit..After a season of losing and watching this miserable team night in and night out, we have a chance to get a decent player after our spirit as fans has been broken..I have never thought I could accept the Knicks losing in my entire life..This team broke me..I came to grips a few weeks ago and thought after watching the NCAA there is a sliver lining in all this..

After securing the best odds to get a decent player, it's time to start winning??..Come on..

They are winning now when it doesn't count. Why is anybody surprised? Isn't that the very definition of a bad team? There is no pressure, lower expectations and there's been some stability, and guys are playing for their team of agents more so than the Knicks.

Bullshit is right... it's a bullshit attitude to own losing this much.

Number 5 isn't going to be a decent player? Because rankings today are set in stone how someone is going to perform in 4 seasons? Come on guys, a cursory look at history shows you how much we won't know until this shit actually happens.

If you are an outsider looking at the Knicks you might be saying that Phil has been trying to tank from the beginning. We got rid of many players who might have pushed us into the 20+ win category, guys like Bargnani and Calderon (didn't he think he could have come back this season?)have been kept out because of injuries, and we've fielded a lineup that some said could be beaten by a good college team.

I'll throw out come comments that some will see an an anti-Anthony rant.

What the Knicks should have done is shut Anthony down earlier that they did, although some say Anthony controlled the process, or even the evil one...Dolan. We would have had 2-5 fewer victories if he had not chosen to continue playing. There was no reason for him to be playing once there was no chance for a playoff spot and it was determined that he would need knee surgery.

This is where Jackson could have put his foot down. Hell, if Anthony didn't want to shut things down Phil and Fisher could have simply kept him on the bench and not played him because of their "concern" for his future health. To some folks, Anthony would have looked more selfish if he complained, but others would have seen his desire to play as a sign of toughness and dedication to the franchise.

Anthony wanting to play in the London game and continue playing until the All-Star game was selfish, and Jackson's refusal to force the issue and shut him down once surgery was imminent, was just stupid, and a sign of weakness on his part.

Draft pick aside...it was better for the franchise for Anthony to get surgery as soon as possible and prepare for next year.

We had a win/win situation, and we blew it.

Blaming the young guys and marginal vets who are still playing hard and winning every now and then is just foolish. These guys are playing for their respective futures, whether it is on the Knicks or another team.

I'm pissed off that we are winning and lowering our statistical odds of getting the top pick, but I can't be upset with the guys who are playing their asses off for the Knicks this late in the year, and you can't be upset with Fisher who has taken a lot of shyt from fans and posters, and is just trying to develop players and learn how to coach.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

Bullshit..After a season of losing and watching this miserable team night in and night out, we have a chance to get a decent player after our spirit as fans has been broken..I have never thought I could accept the Knicks losing in my entire life..This team broke me..I came to grips a few weeks ago and thought after watching the NCAA there is a sliver lining in all this..

After securing the best odds to get a decent player, it's time to start winning??..Come on..

They are winning now when it doesn't count. Why is anybody surprised? Isn't that the very definition of a bad team? There is no pressure, lower expectations and there's been some stability, and guys are playing for their team of agents more so than the Knicks.

Bullshit is right... it's a bullshit attitude to own losing this much.

Number 5 isn't going to be a decent player? Because rankings today are set in stone how someone is going to perform in 4 seasons? Come on guys, a cursory look at history shows you how much we won't know until this shit actually happens.

It's not on the players, it's on the coach..

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knick fans deserve no more or less other fans for other teams. the notion we "deserve" because MSG ticket prices are higher is a joke.

Years of mismanagement have lead to the events of this season. While I would hope the teams would lose tonite I would hope both teams would try to win the game. Thats what the fans who bought tickets for tonites game deserve.

Minny is playing the thunder who are in the playoff hunt and I doubt they succeed in upsetting them. We played an ATL team who all but locked up their spot and had no incentive.
The Lottery is what it is. We been talking all season long about "Oka4 or Towns" as if either will be our first choice. Fact is, the odds were always against it.

And given that, fans here will be disappionted as if we "deserve better".

I'd put valium in the knicks Gatorade. That should do it.

+1

Why do Knicks fans "deserve" crap because the place sells out regardless?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

I find the way jrod speaks to his annoyance at the kvetching annoying, but this late season anger at the Knicks for not mailing it in for two extra ping pong balls or whatever... it's boring as hell.

My desire for a better draft pick — who could very well end up being a bust — will never be trumped by wanting to see Knicks fans happy at their Knicks team winning. Maybe the old farts will hate it, but the youngsters who are fans of this team watching with wide eyes because their parents could score tickets hella cheap and it may be the only time they can afford to get in that overpriced tax-subsidized temple of hype... despite any sense of reason — they deserve a win, if anybody.

But let's face it, there is almost nothing else to talk about.

Bullshit..After a season of losing and watching this miserable team night in and night out, we have a chance to get a decent player after our spirit as fans has been broken..I have never thought I could accept the Knicks losing in my entire life..This team broke me..I came to grips a few weeks ago and thought after watching the NCAA there is a sliver lining in all this..

After securing the best odds to get a decent player, it's time to start winning??..Come on..

They are winning now when it doesn't count. Why is anybody surprised? Isn't that the very definition of a bad team? There is no pressure, lower expectations and there's been some stability, and guys are playing for their team of agents more so than the Knicks.

Bullshit is right... it's a bullshit attitude to own losing this much.

Number 5 isn't going to be a decent player? Because rankings today are set in stone how someone is going to perform in 4 seasons? Come on guys, a cursory look at history shows you how much we won't know until this shit actually happens.

It's not on the players, it's on the coach..

so its his responsibility to throw games? Who's responsibility is it to throw games? Briggs? Please stop telling me about logic and what makes sense. If your pissed the Knicks won, and your pissed that Galloway and THjr got hot then please spell it out for me.

Who's responsibility is it to throw the games?

Anyone? Anyone?