Knicks · THE 2015 NBA playoff thread (page 8)
dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Uptown wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Flu Tyson is gone. 11 pts, 18 rbss. That Rondo trade killed the Mavs though.
Harden showed how important versatility is on offense. Even when his shot isn't falling, he scored in the 20s and had double digit assists. Holfresh, do you think they would have won the game without him last night or are you just nit-picking?I'm nit-picking for sure and no, I don't think the Rockets could have won without his efforts...Did you see the game???..Don't seem so...But he didn't do anything that dozens of other players could have done in that game..It wasn't very Harden-like that we have become accustomed to, or maybe it's the playoffs again...Harden padded his stat with a series of intentions fouls to stop the clock at the end of the game..The Mav's, Ellis and Rondo, were brilliant keeping him from going left and out of the lane..Add to that the flops and you know the rest..But the guy who set the tone of the game was DHow whose defense propelled the Rockets twice to double digit leads..Harden's defense was the worse I had seen of any player this season in the NBA...And I'm not just saying that...He ran away from plays, literally, I saw it twice...Ran out of the way of a player driving...Hubie Brown once commented Harden, ah come on...I just found it fascinating that advanced stat guys might be drooling at his numbers from this game...
Parsons not being healthy did in the Mav's not Rondo..Flu Tyson got his numbers off Rondo getting to the cup where he had put backs...Tyson doesn't need Rondo to average double digit scoring. He's done that for years. The Mavs winning percentage dropped almost .200 points after the Rondo trade. That trade did kill them.
BS...We saw it with here what Felton getting into the lane did for Tyson...Same thing happened yesterday, Without Rondo missing layups, Tyson had zero put back opportunities..
Of course he's going to be dependent on having an NBA level backcourt player who can get into the lane, and it's obvious that sometimes those shots will be misses. If a team doesn't have an NBA level backcourt member who can penetrate, it has even bigger problems than anything related to Tyson though.
The game is moving away from players who penetrate and to those who shoot threes...You should be happy...
Holfresh, I agree with most of what you are saying in terms of the Mavs/Rockets game (I acrtually watched the game as well). With that said, I disagree with the game is moving away from guards who can penetrate. The game has actually turned into a drive and kick league. Guys might not be getting all the way to the cup like in years past, (Save for the elite like Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc), but guards are needed to get into the paint, draw the help defender and kick it out for a three.
The new thing now, or at least the last several years is for the guard to penetrate on the strong side to the baseline, almost under the basket and out of bounds, and whip a pass across the court (under the basket) to the baseline weakside for a corner 3. This is an actual play that a lot of teams run to stretch the floor. As a coach, I have dozens of recent coaching clinics on dvds where I study skills, drills and plays and they are doing this even in HS.
True, MDA made it a drive and kick league but remember the days when 2 guards and SF used to go hard to the hole..Now only PGs go hard if they do at all..
But take a look at Harden..Dallas took away his left hand penetration and he struggled offensively...This is an MVP candidate..Your offensive game should to be more versatile in this 3 ball era..He can't post and he doesn't have another spot where he catches the ball other than the top of the key...I think if he had a mid-range game his numbers would have been better..But they won and a win is a win..But that's why I love the playoffs, all these flaws are exposed...Kevin Durant got exposed in the playoffs as well because he does not have a post game.
Lebron was exposed until he developed a post game.
Kobe and MJ developed post games.
Harden needs development just like the rest of them. Nobody is perfect and therefore, will get exposed and be forced to address the issue(s)
you may have a point here. add dirk to that list, and wade was not bad either. then again, some of these so-called post games end up being fadeaway step-backs in the dreaded midrange. and as i recall you may have an issue with the midrange shot?
I want the post move to create a high percentage shot.
If you post up and take a low percentage / long fade away then its a pretty bad shot unless you hit it at a high rate which is quite rare.
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Uptown wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Flu Tyson is gone. 11 pts, 18 rbss. That Rondo trade killed the Mavs though.
Harden showed how important versatility is on offense. Even when his shot isn't falling, he scored in the 20s and had double digit assists. Holfresh, do you think they would have won the game without him last night or are you just nit-picking?I'm nit-picking for sure and no, I don't think the Rockets could have won without his efforts...Did you see the game???..Don't seem so...But he didn't do anything that dozens of other players could have done in that game..It wasn't very Harden-like that we have become accustomed to, or maybe it's the playoffs again...Harden padded his stat with a series of intentions fouls to stop the clock at the end of the game..The Mav's, Ellis and Rondo, were brilliant keeping him from going left and out of the lane..Add to that the flops and you know the rest..But the guy who set the tone of the game was DHow whose defense propelled the Rockets twice to double digit leads..Harden's defense was the worse I had seen of any player this season in the NBA...And I'm not just saying that...He ran away from plays, literally, I saw it twice...Ran out of the way of a player driving...Hubie Brown once commented Harden, ah come on...I just found it fascinating that advanced stat guys might be drooling at his numbers from this game...
Parsons not being healthy did in the Mav's not Rondo..Flu Tyson got his numbers off Rondo getting to the cup where he had put backs...Tyson doesn't need Rondo to average double digit scoring. He's done that for years. The Mavs winning percentage dropped almost .200 points after the Rondo trade. That trade did kill them.
BS...We saw it with here what Felton getting into the lane did for Tyson...Same thing happened yesterday, Without Rondo missing layups, Tyson had zero put back opportunities..
Of course he's going to be dependent on having an NBA level backcourt player who can get into the lane, and it's obvious that sometimes those shots will be misses. If a team doesn't have an NBA level backcourt member who can penetrate, it has even bigger problems than anything related to Tyson though.
The game is moving away from players who penetrate and to those who shoot threes...You should be happy...
Holfresh, I agree with most of what you are saying in terms of the Mavs/Rockets game (I acrtually watched the game as well). With that said, I disagree with the game is moving away from guards who can penetrate. The game has actually turned into a drive and kick league. Guys might not be getting all the way to the cup like in years past, (Save for the elite like Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc), but guards are needed to get into the paint, draw the help defender and kick it out for a three.
The new thing now, or at least the last several years is for the guard to penetrate on the strong side to the baseline, almost under the basket and out of bounds, and whip a pass across the court (under the basket) to the baseline weakside for a corner 3. This is an actual play that a lot of teams run to stretch the floor. As a coach, I have dozens of recent coaching clinics on dvds where I study skills, drills and plays and they are doing this even in HS.
True, MDA made it a drive and kick league but remember the days when 2 guards and SF used to go hard to the hole..Now only PGs go hard if they do at all..
But take a look at Harden..Dallas took away his left hand penetration and he struggled offensively...This is an MVP candidate..Your offensive game should to be more versatile in this 3 ball era..He can't post and he doesn't have another spot where he catches the ball other than the top of the key...I think if he had a mid-range game his numbers would have been better..But they won and a win is a win..But that's why I love the playoffs, all these flaws are exposed...Kevin Durant got exposed in the playoffs as well because he does not have a post game.
Lebron was exposed until he developed a post game.
Kobe and MJ developed post games.
Harden needs development just like the rest of them. Nobody is perfect and therefore, will get exposed and be forced to address the issue(s)
MJ, Kobe, Wade and now LeBron dominated in the high post, not the low post. Jordan and Kobe would usually set up shop 12-15 feet away from the hoop. They played back to the basket grom 12-15 feet away, usually foul line extended which counts as a mid range jumper.
Uptown wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:Uptown wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Flu Tyson is gone. 11 pts, 18 rbss. That Rondo trade killed the Mavs though.
Harden showed how important versatility is on offense. Even when his shot isn't falling, he scored in the 20s and had double digit assists. Holfresh, do you think they would have won the game without him last night or are you just nit-picking?I'm nit-picking for sure and no, I don't think the Rockets could have won without his efforts...Did you see the game???..Don't seem so...But he didn't do anything that dozens of other players could have done in that game..It wasn't very Harden-like that we have become accustomed to, or maybe it's the playoffs again...Harden padded his stat with a series of intentions fouls to stop the clock at the end of the game..The Mav's, Ellis and Rondo, were brilliant keeping him from going left and out of the lane..Add to that the flops and you know the rest..But the guy who set the tone of the game was DHow whose defense propelled the Rockets twice to double digit leads..Harden's defense was the worse I had seen of any player this season in the NBA...And I'm not just saying that...He ran away from plays, literally, I saw it twice...Ran out of the way of a player driving...Hubie Brown once commented Harden, ah come on...I just found it fascinating that advanced stat guys might be drooling at his numbers from this game...
Parsons not being healthy did in the Mav's not Rondo..Flu Tyson got his numbers off Rondo getting to the cup where he had put backs...Tyson doesn't need Rondo to average double digit scoring. He's done that for years. The Mavs winning percentage dropped almost .200 points after the Rondo trade. That trade did kill them.
BS...We saw it with here what Felton getting into the lane did for Tyson...Same thing happened yesterday, Without Rondo missing layups, Tyson had zero put back opportunities..
Of course he's going to be dependent on having an NBA level backcourt player who can get into the lane, and it's obvious that sometimes those shots will be misses. If a team doesn't have an NBA level backcourt member who can penetrate, it has even bigger problems than anything related to Tyson though.
The game is moving away from players who penetrate and to those who shoot threes...You should be happy...
Holfresh, I agree with most of what you are saying in terms of the Mavs/Rockets game (I acrtually watched the game as well). With that said, I disagree with the game is moving away from guards who can penetrate. The game has actually turned into a drive and kick league. Guys might not be getting all the way to the cup like in years past, (Save for the elite like Kyrie, Tony Parker, etc), but guards are needed to get into the paint, draw the help defender and kick it out for a three.
The new thing now, or at least the last several years is for the guard to penetrate on the strong side to the baseline, almost under the basket and out of bounds, and whip a pass across the court (under the basket) to the baseline weakside for a corner 3. This is an actual play that a lot of teams run to stretch the floor. As a coach, I have dozens of recent coaching clinics on dvds where I study skills, drills and plays and they are doing this even in HS.
True, MDA made it a drive and kick league but remember the days when 2 guards and SF used to go hard to the hole..Now only PGs go hard if they do at all..
But take a look at Harden..Dallas took away his left hand penetration and he struggled offensively...This is an MVP candidate..Your offensive game should to be more versatile in this 3 ball era..He can't post and he doesn't have another spot where he catches the ball other than the top of the key...I think if he had a mid-range game his numbers would have been better..But they won and a win is a win..But that's why I love the playoffs, all these flaws are exposed...Kevin Durant got exposed in the playoffs as well because he does not have a post game.
Lebron was exposed until he developed a post game.
Kobe and MJ developed post games.
Harden needs development just like the rest of them. Nobody is perfect and therefore, will get exposed and be forced to address the issue(s)
MJ, Kobe, Wade and now LeBron dominated in the high post, not the low post. Jordan and Kobe would usually set up shop 12-15 feet away from the hoop. They played back to the basket grom 12-15 feet away, usually foul line extended which counts as a mid range jumper.
the 16-23 footer is the long 2 that is also called the sh1t shot since they are hit at such a low rate and the ROI is therefor terrible.
Obviously the best shots are withing 3 feet and the further out you get the FG% plummets and therefore the attempts from these area's should gradually go down the further you go.
If a player can hit a 12 foot turn around from the post at a high rate and/or use it as a threat to create better shots than he should certainly have this in his repertoire.
dk7th wrote:uh oh that looked like an achilles strain for lebron.
Oh man, I hate injuries- they've ruined this whole damn season
smackeddog wrote:dk7th wrote:uh oh that looked like an achilles strain for lebron.Oh man, I hate injuries- they've ruined this whole damn season
he's okay just bumped knees.
I finally understand why Isiah Thomas dosen't start, he is a dreadful defender.
knicks1248 wrote:I will never understand what woodson was thinking when he bench Beno for felton. He's been very productive for Memphis and he's killing now..
Because he couldn't guard a chair..
knicks1248 wrote:I will never understand what woodson was thinking when he bench Beno for felton. He's been very productive for Memphis and he's killing now..He wasn't in shape in ny. He had a paunch.
CrushAlot wrote:Spurs/Clips is on too late.
Yeah, why wasn't this the Saturday night game? It's the pick of the first round ties.
holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I will never understand what woodson was thinking when he bench Beno for felton. He's been very productive for Memphis and he's killing now..Because he couldn't guard a chair..
And Felton's defense was better? I think what Crush said is the case.
knickscity wrote:I wanna hear folks talk about Aldrdge taking 34 shots and only hitting 13.
Aldridge's shot selection is putrid.
Wiz vs drakes
- wizards need to play pierce more at the three. There's absolutely no way Gooden should get as many shot attempts as pierce.
- James johnson needs to play coach casey. His defense is needed
Warriors vs New Orleans
- The Pelicans defense has been a weakness all yr. Asik (regressed) and Anderson are the bigs and they cant guard anyone - especially when the warriors go small (they often played green at center)
- Unibrow looked tentative and nervous but still finished with a quiet 35pts. smh. lol.
Bucks vs Chicago
- If Rose keeps it up then the East conference has a problem in chicago. What a backcourt! Mirotic is a stretch 4 - not a 3.
- People were predicting that the Greek Freak will be AMAZING - i wont take him seriously until he learns how to shoot a basketball
Dallas vs Rockets
- houston bench > mavs bench. Dwight looked like Superman dwight (despite not playing many mins due to foul trouble).
- Dallas has to outscore their opponents because they suck on defense. If parsons and ellis struggle, they have no chance
Cavs vs Celtics
- bad coaching moves by Stevens. Why was IT4 guarding kyrie - thats for smart and bradley. why was turner guarding lebron - thats for crowder. I dont care how many meaningless triple doubles turner has: hes not a good player
- Kyrie is pretty good. Hes a shooting guard in a PG body (like iverson). He's best when all he has to do is focus on scoring - the opposite of Lebron
Brooklyn vs Hawks
- nice effort by the nets but they simply suck on defense. why did earl clark have as many shot attempts as lopez. I know lopez is overrated and slow but i dont know why Hollins hates this guy as much
- some cause for concern for the hawks - horford and millsap are injured. Teague is starting to revert into Turnover Teague again.
Portland vs Memphis
- complete mismatch: portland doesnt have the wings so they relied on bigs. Ironically memphis often went small with green at the 4. Kaman, leonard, Lopez and Alridge couldnt keep up. Lilliard was awful especially when they beat him up in the lane
- nice game by udrih and more importantly conley.
San Antonio vs Clippers (didnt watch)
- all i noticed was the clippers bench (besides crawford) only played 31 mins. Doc simply doesnt trust his short bench. meanwhile 11 spurs played over 10 mins for san antonio. Pop will make adjustments (play mills more; not play splitter as much - not healthy yet; play bonner more than baynes)