Knicks · Billups: Carmelo not enough of a leader for Knicks (no really news) (page 1)

When the Knicks won 54 games two seasons ago, capturing the Atlantic Division and a playoff series for the first time since 2000, veteran leadership was seen as a big reason for the team’s success.
Grizzled veterans like Marcus Camby, Jason Kidd, Kurt Thomas, and Rasheed Wallace kept the team in line throughout the season. So, why hasn’t Carmelo Anthony filled that role with those players long departed?
“He’s not that guy,” Chauncey Billups said on “The Knicks Blog with Anthony Donahue” radio show, when asked if Anthony could be a “loud and outspoken” leader.
“Melo’s a good friend of mine, one of the best players I ever played with, but he’s not the guy who’s going to stand up in the locker room and give this rah-rah speech and get the team to rally. That’s not who he is.”
Billups, who played with Anthony in Denver and was included in the trade that brought Anthony to the Knicks, was asked if Anthony could develop into that kind of leader at this stage of his career.
“That’s tough to ask for,” said Billups, now an analyst for ESPN. “I’ll just say this, you’ve got all that cap room, you better go find someone [to be a vocal leader]. Melo, that’s not who he is and we are who we are. That’s like asking me to be this guy with a 40-inch vertical and go in there and be dunking on everybody like I’m Russell Westbrook. You can’t ask an apple to be an orange, that’s just not fair.”
Billups went on to detail Anthony’s unique leadership qualities.
“[Carmelo] will lead by example,” Billups said. “He’s going to come to work and he’s playing for the win every night. There’s no question about that, that’s who he is. He’s a great player, he wants to win. He’s going to come to work. He’s going to lead by example, he’s not going to be vocal.”

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

A lot of these guys dont get the work level it takes to get there and stay there. Its brutal and its not fun

GustavBahler wrote:Neither was Ewing. Different types of players, neither known as vocal leaders. Would be nice to draft a floor general to eventually fill that role.

he was not and it was a knock on him.

Oak, Doc, Harper ... Riley

there were leaders

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:I would think Phil would know this already. Melo has always been the same player leadership wise since he came in the league. Surround the leader to fill he weaknesses. ....
If so we Need:
Vocal floor leader
Locker room leader
Defender
Rim Protector
Someone who Doesnt need the ball to impact the game.

This is why its so hard to build around Melo. He doesmt fill multiple holes like the other max players. So you have to find players that can fill multiple holes....Or a system like the triangle to assist with Melo's ball hogging.

Do we know how other "max players" are in leadership? Locker room?

I dont know about max players....but you can see who the vocal leaders are that we should add...Green is one but I wouldnt give him the max. Aldridge seems like melo.....lets his game speak.

Agree 100%. I would hate to pair Aldridge with Melo. They are way too passive in my opinion. Green is intriguing in my opinion; he will cash in at the end of the year.

As for vocal leaders; you can easily see who they are as you watch the game. Duncan, for example appears to be a quiet dude, but he controls the locker room and the guys on the court. Lebron is a loud mouth; but, a hell of a leader. Kobe too is a loud mouth; but, his killer instinct and work ethic are so contagious, he incites others to follow his lead.

Beware of whom you give max money to and why. We have two young dudes currently on the roster that will for certain be strong leaders with proper coaching (Langston and THJ). Yes, I said it; THJ. He simply has to learn that the game of basketball entails other parts then just scoring the ball. I.E.: dominate on the defensive end; particularly, when he is having a terrible shooting night. Rebound the ball; make plays for others.

dude ... jump off the THJ train already :-)

Not yet my man. He is young and only been in the league for two full seasons. And, already played for two different coaches with two different visions and style since he was drafted. I want to see what he adds to his game next season before abandoning him as a player

I agree with THj. He will only get better and he's most likely a late bloomer. The problem is not him but it's the high expectations we put on him due to his rookie year. But if he was in the D league, we would be all over him as a solid reserve.

Solid reserve... thats a different tone from starter on a winning team. He can score in bunches, but his best trait (scoring) is wildly inconsistant at best. I see an Eddie House type. See if he gives you instant offense off the bench, if his shot isnt hitting get him out of there fast.

Weirdly, I thought Timmy would be a defense and glue guy based on what I saw from him at college. I don't like the way he plays in the NBA - trying to "get his" too much. Not a team player at all. I think his dad is in his ear too much. I don't have much hope for the kid, I hate to say. It's like his dream is to be a 20ppg scorer with low efficiency on a bad team, etc.

His dad is not in his ear at all which was an asterisk for me when he first got to the NBA... Tim Sr. and Jr was interviewed ..Senior said he doesn't listen to me nor seeks my advise...Jr. said he like to find his own way..I thought having a resource like his father would have been a good thing...The kid is head strong and thinks highly of himself..But I still want to keep him..He can play a roll on the team..

Apparently Sr. was pushing him too hard and they were close to a blow up when mom stepped in and they decided to drop it meaning Sr. doesnt talk to him about BB anymore and Jr. is free to "find his own way" exactly as you mentioned.

A lot of these guys dont get the work level it takes to get there and stay there. Its brutal and its not fun

red flag.

some of us did not even like rookie timmy.

your play in and yank him bench scenario was spot on.

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Neither was Ewing. Different types of players, neither known as vocal leaders. Would be nice to draft a floor general to eventually fill that role.

he was not and it was a knock on him.

Oak, Doc, Harper ... Riley

there were leaders

Yep