Knicks · Is there any attainable free agent better than a healthy David Lee? (page 2)

i subscribe to draftexpress on youtube. BRIGGS is this where you get your random draft prospects from? i noticed that whenever a new prospect video comes out (like christian wood, portis, etc), you mention that we should try to draft him. just asking...

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

You want the Knicks to pick up ( if it was even possible) an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is well within his decline phase of his career?

To pair with Melo, an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is likely to enter the decline phase of his career within his current contract timeline?

After Knicks fans and the franchise has been waiting to let the team killing contracts of STAT and Bargs, aging power forwards known for their deficient defense, who chewed up cap space, had injury questions all along the way and were well within their decline phases of their career?

There are two roads , as I've stated before in many other threads, to follow the same insane path to keep stockpiling expensive no defense power forwards. Lee cannot function as a center. So that means to get him and Melo on the floor together, Melo has to defend wings. This case means, since you've chewed up the cap, that the defense will rest on some rookie in the pivot or a journeyman. Good way to mentally break a rookie, by leaving them in a situation where they must anchor the defense completely as a first year player.

Or you can try to play Lee at center or figure out you need defense of some kind and then bench Lee. An expensive reserve who can't play D or watching your team get lit up each night like they were on the brunt end of some kamikaze attack run.

Wow, that sounds NOTHING LIKE THE PROBLEMS THE KNICKS HAD WITH STAT AND BARGS, does it?

+1
Oh my god, I agree with TripleThreat. Well, except for the fact that Melo has already chewed up his cap space. Past tense. The offseason sure makes weird things happen.

David Lee. SMH.

SupremeCommander wrote:I love the idea, love Lee, and think the reason he's coming off the bench has more to do with Dray than any other factor

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

You want the Knicks to pick up ( if it was even possible) an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is well within his decline phase of his career?

To pair with Melo, an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is likely to enter the decline phase of his career within his current contract timeline?

After Knicks fans and the franchise has been waiting to let the team killing contracts of STAT and Bargs, aging power forwards known for their deficient defense, who chewed up cap space, had injury questions all along the way and were well within their decline phases of their career?

There are two roads , as I've stated before in many other threads, to follow the same insane path to keep stockpiling expensive no defense power forwards. Lee cannot function as a center. So that means to get him and Melo on the floor together, Melo has to defend wings. This case means, since you've chewed up the cap, that the defense will rest on some rookie in the pivot or a journeyman. Good way to mentally break a rookie, by leaving them in a situation where they must anchor the defense completely as a first year player.

Or you can try to play Lee at center or figure out you need defense of some kind and then bench Lee. An expensive reserve who can't play D or watching your team get lit up each night like they were on the brunt end of some kamikaze attack run.

Wow, that sounds NOTHING LIKE THE PROBLEMS THE KNICKS HAD WITH STAT AND BARGS, does it?

So just curious if GS offered Lee plus some kind of sweetener you wouldn't take on the last year of his deal next season? The Knicks aren't going to be contending for a chip next season and Lee could be a decent back up at PF to round out the roster.

how do we transform the roster/franchise? Add marginal talent in FA? Or, pick up Lee or players like him and a draft pick in this years draft, where we can roll the dice and hope that draft pick becomes better than whatever marginal FA we opt not to sign?

Are you really ready to admit defeat in FA before it starts? There's a 100+ FA. I get we probably arent landing the top tier guy. Probably... But this notion that any team is going to pay any amount of money to retain FAs because in a year or two they will be discounted is not reality based. A few teams will spend but most are run like businesses with real budgets. The tax still exists. Owners dont want to pay double or triple to keep guys even if its only for a year.

In any case there will be FAs who move. There will be guys who are overpaid for. There will be guys who get squeezed because their current team blew its budget. Making these types of Lee+picks trades arent bad ideas, but it closes the door to a ton of opportunities in the FA market. Are you willing concede defeat in FA before it even starts?

Briggs.. your going to let a month of Kanter threads go to waste before you even get a chance to make an offer?!?!?!?!

fishmike wrote:Here's the problem. Lee + picks is a draft day deal. Free agency comes later. Im not opposed to these types of deals where you take on an undesirable (contract) for an asset (draft pick). The problem is the order.

Are you really ready to admit defeat in FA before it starts? There's a 100+ FA. I get we probably arent landing the top tier guy. Probably... But this notion that any team is going to pay any amount of money to retain FAs because in a year or two they will be discounted is not reality based. A few teams will spend but most are run like businesses with real budgets. The tax still exists. Owners dont want to pay double or triple to keep guys even if its only for a year.

In any case there will be FAs who move. There will be guys who are overpaid for. There will be guys who get squeezed because their current team blew its budget. Making these types of Lee+picks trades arent bad ideas, but it closes the door to a ton of opportunities in the FA market. Are you willing concede defeat in FA before it even starts?

Briggs.. your going to let a month of Kanter threads go to waste before you even get a chance to make an offer?!?!?!?!

No... I just think everyone is fed up and would like a legit rebuild through the draft. I would love to get younger next season, get a good foundation. And then add to that in 2016. Thre more I think about 2015 FA the less excited I get. I don't see many moving. Maybe Dragic can still happen but I doubt it. Tobias Harris doesn't really fit. I can't think of many other likely to move higher end guys...

fishmike wrote:Here's the problem. Lee + picks is a draft day deal. Free agency comes later. Im not opposed to these types of deals where you take on an undesirable (contract) for an asset (draft pick). The problem is the order.

Are you really ready to admit defeat in FA before it starts? There's a 100+ FA. I get we probably arent landing the top tier guy. Probably... But this notion that any team is going to pay any amount of money to retain FAs because in a year or two they will be discounted is not reality based. A few teams will spend but most are run like businesses with real budgets. The tax still exists. Owners dont want to pay double or triple to keep guys even if its only for a year.

In any case there will be FAs who move. There will be guys who are overpaid for. There will be guys who get squeezed because their current team blew its budget. Making these types of Lee+picks trades arent bad ideas, but it closes the door to a ton of opportunities in the FA market. Are you willing concede defeat in FA before it even starts?

Briggs.. your going to let a month of Kanter threads go to waste before you even get a chance to make an offer?!?!?!?!

I think what Briggs is getting at is we can get Lee and maybe a pick vs. just signing a free agent. Lee is the free agent!! What is available in reality in Free agency that is better than Lee? Besides Kanter of course!

But then we are doing what Philly is doing as stockpilers.

I am all for this but most here need to win now. I want to stockpile picks and win later. Lets remember where our damn pick is going next year.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

You want the Knicks to pick up ( if it was even possible) an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is well within his decline phase of his career?

To pair with Melo, an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is likely to enter the decline phase of his career within his current contract timeline?

After Knicks fans and the franchise has been waiting to let the team killing contracts of STAT and Bargs, aging power forwards known for their deficient defense, who chewed up cap space, had injury questions all along the way and were well within their decline phases of their career?

There are two roads , as I've stated before in many other threads, to follow the same insane path to keep stockpiling expensive no defense power forwards. Lee cannot function as a center. So that means to get him and Melo on the floor together, Melo has to defend wings. This case means, since you've chewed up the cap, that the defense will rest on some rookie in the pivot or a journeyman. Good way to mentally break a rookie, by leaving them in a situation where they must anchor the defense completely as a first year player.

Or you can try to play Lee at center or figure out you need defense of some kind and then bench Lee. An expensive reserve who can't play D or watching your team get lit up each night like they were on the brunt end of some kamikaze attack run.

Wow, that sounds NOTHING LIKE THE PROBLEMS THE KNICKS HAD WITH STAT AND BARGS, does it?

No its a one year cure while GS gives me assets(2015 30 pick 2020 top 10 restriction) Your premise that we need a defensive PF is simply wrong. Have you watched even 1 minute of Blake Griffin--how's he holding up? Defense has CLEARLY taken a backseat to offense in the NBA--its important but its impossible to guard some guys and thats why smart good team gets to 110 a great deal of time. Triple Threat your a dinosaur--you think its still the 90's. Basketball is played a different way now--you need to come 20 years into the future. With the possibility that BOTH picks 13+ 14 are open for trade---Id much rather go there now. Ill take on 20mm for picks 13 and 14. This free agency is terrible and I bet you cant name any free agents at cost who'd youd like the kNicks to get who can actually help the team. Your posts are all the same negative but with no content--do you even know the names of 1/4 of the NBA players? The Clippers are in LA now--they moved from San Diego

I don't see Carmelo as a star player anymore--perhaps a secondary type star. Unless free agency can yield a star Id rather use my cap assets in other ways. I dont want to build a treadmill team like you do.

fishmike wrote:Here's the problem. Lee + picks is a draft day deal. Free agency comes later. Im not opposed to these types of deals where you take on an undesirable (contract) for an asset (draft pick). The problem is the order.

Are you really ready to admit defeat in FA before it starts? There's a 100+ FA. I get we probably arent landing the top tier guy. Probably... But this notion that any team is going to pay any amount of money to retain FAs because in a year or two they will be discounted is not reality based. A few teams will spend but most are run like businesses with real budgets. The tax still exists. Owners dont want to pay double or triple to keep guys even if its only for a year.

In any case there will be FAs who move. There will be guys who are overpaid for. There will be guys who get squeezed because their current team blew its budget. Making these types of Lee+picks trades arent bad ideas, but it closes the door to a ton of opportunities in the FA market. Are you willing concede defeat in FA before it even starts?

Briggs.. your going to let a month of Kanter threads go to waste before you even get a chance to make an offer?!?!?!?!

How about a pick next year when we have none? Id still do it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

leaves your options open and saves us from ourselves.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

Well the main reason would be to

A take their 2015 pick #30 and a 2020 restricted # 7 pick so we can have that asset for the future
B. Grab a player for one year who can play this systems well while we push free agency into 2016.

I just think too many fans are one directional and not realistic in their thinking . They hear free agency and think we are the Yankess and well get whoever we want. Not working that way. If anyone can tell me the star players coming here--Id like to hear about it. Im all for LBJ to come here--a HEALTHY Durant James Harden? etc... otherwise there is NO game changer coming here. Thats why I said David Lee is likely better than any free agent we could grab and IF they pay us well to do so--it makes sense. That being said with the possibility picks 14+16 are open--Id rather keep David Lee in the corner for now.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

You want the Knicks to pick up ( if it was even possible) an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is well within his decline phase of his career?

To pair with Melo, an aging power forward known for his deficient defense, who will chew up cap space, has injury questions at this point and is likely to enter the decline phase of his career within his current contract timeline?

After Knicks fans and the franchise has been waiting to let the team killing contracts of STAT and Bargs, aging power forwards known for their deficient defense, who chewed up cap space, had injury questions all along the way and were well within their decline phases of their career?

There are two roads , as I've stated before in many other threads, to follow the same insane path to keep stockpiling expensive no defense power forwards. Lee cannot function as a center. So that means to get him and Melo on the floor together, Melo has to defend wings. This case means, since you've chewed up the cap, that the defense will rest on some rookie in the pivot or a journeyman. Good way to mentally break a rookie, by leaving them in a situation where they must anchor the defense completely as a first year player.

Or you can try to play Lee at center or figure out you need defense of some kind and then bench Lee. An expensive reserve who can't play D or watching your team get lit up each night like they were on the brunt end of some kamikaze attack run.

Wow, that sounds NOTHING LIKE THE PROBLEMS THE KNICKS HAD WITH STAT AND BARGS, does it?

No its a one year cure while GS gives me assets(2015 30 pick 2020 top 10 restriction) Your premise that we need a defensive PF is simply wrong. Have you watched even 1 minute of Blake Griffin--how's he holding up? Defense has CLEARLY taken a backseat to offense in the NBA--its important but its impossible to guard some guys and thats why smart good team gets to 110 a great deal of time. Triple Threat your a dinosaur--you think its still the 90's. Basketball is played a different way now--you need to come 20 years into the future. With the possibility that BOTH picks 13+ 14 are open for trade---Id much rather go there now. Ill take on 20mm for picks 13 and 14. This free agency is terrible and I bet you cant name any free agents at cost who'd youd like the kNicks to get who can actually help the team. Your posts are all the same negative but with no content--do you even know the names of 1/4 of the NBA players? The Clippers are in LA now--they moved from San Diego

I don't see Carmelo as a star player anymore--perhaps a secondary type star. Unless free agency can yield a star Id rather use my cap assets in other ways. I dont want to build a treadmill team like you do.

Chris Paul is one of the best defensive players in the league and so is Jordan..Barnes is adequate defensively and so a Austin Rivers..Spurs could have easily won that series if weren't for a bad call at the end of the game..Where has defense taken a back seat??..

BRIGGS wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

Well the main reason would be to

A take their 2015 pick #30 and a 2020 restricted # 7 pick so we can have that asset for the future
B. Grab a player for one year who can play this systems well while we push free agency into 2016.

I just think too many fans are one directional and not realistic in their thinking . They hear free agency and think we are the Yankess and well get whoever we want. Not working that way. If anyone can tell me the star players coming here--Id like to hear about it. Im all for LBJ to come here--a HEALTHY Durant James Harden? etc... otherwise there is NO game changer coming here. Thats why I said David Lee is likely better than any free agent we could grab and IF they pay us well to do so--it makes sense. That being said with the possibility picks 14+16 are open--Id rather keep David Lee in the corner for now.

BRIGGS wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I highly doubt it.

I'd much rather have a 1 year commitment to Lee than a max contract for Monroe or supermax for Aldridge, especially if GSW is willing to sweeten the deal for us taking on his salary.

I don't understand with offering a player a one yr deal when your trying to build. When players don't feel like they are part of the future, and have to get question every other game about it, it takes away from actually focusing on your game. We have seen it on this roster over and over.

If your not going to give a guy at least a 2 yr deal, why bother.

Well the main reason would be to

A take their 2015 pick #30 and a 2020 restricted # 7 pick so we can have that asset for the future
B. Grab a player for one year who can play this systems well while we push free agency into 2016.

I just think too many fans are one directional and not realistic in their thinking . They hear free agency and think we are the Yankess and well get whoever we want. Not working that way. If anyone can tell me the star players coming here--Id like to hear about it. Im all for LBJ to come here--a HEALTHY Durant James Harden? etc... otherwise there is NO game changer coming here. Thats why I said David Lee is likely better than any free agent we could grab and IF they pay us well to do so--it makes sense. That being said with the possibility picks 14+16 are open--Id rather keep David Lee in the corner for now.

I'm amazed that people don't understand this. In all likelihood the Knicks are going to be mediocre at best next year. Taking on guys like Lee and Wallace as 1 year rentals and getting 1st round picks in return seems like a no brainer. The move would be similar to the Lakers taking on Lin's contract for a year and getting a first & second rounder in return. The caveat is that this type of move is probably not palatable to the fan here who wants immediate winning results next year....however I just want the team to be built in a smart manner.....stockpile picks for either young guys or future trade pieces and make smart, cost efficient FA signings. As the young core gets stronger, then continue to add FA pieces who fit. I've been waiting 2 decades for this team to come back to sustained prominence.....I can wait another year if trades like this are made to bolster the team's future asset base.