Knicks · yeah... DeMarre Carroll is playing himself into a max contract (page 2)

crzymdups wrote:DeMarre Carroll's playoffs stats:

18.9ppg 55.6%fg 46.5%3pt 6.5rpg 2.6apg

for you advanced folks - .234 WS/48 in the playoffs 132 Ortg 105 Drtg .684 TS%

DeMarre is gonna get PAID based on these playoffs.

I think you are close to being dead on. He may not get a pure max(although he might)--but he IS going to get 13mm+ think about it with 12 teams with more than max cap space--can u think of 12 players who will be available? One smart team will offer Demmarre a high amount given these contracts come at a 71% discount. And you're right hes playing like a max player right now. Hes playing just as well or better than Butler or Leonard. He destroyed Danny Greens playoff numbers.

nixluva wrote:DeMarre is going to be 29 this July. He's having a great playoffs but we have to keep things in perspective. How many teams will be shopping for a 29 yr old role player at SF this summer? He's nice player but let's not get crazy either. Guys like DeMarre, Danny Green and Wesley Matthews are great players to have when you have even better players who can create shots and open things up for them. It's not like you're gonna be giving the ball to these guys and getting out of the way. That's why they don't get the Max.

Agreed in general. But with the cap going up, I think guys like Tobias Harris, Khris Middleton are definitely gonna get maxes, because it locks them into deals that will be VERY reasonable in years 2-5 with the new cap.

I'm not as sure about that next tier, but I think you will see guys like Carroll, Green and Matthews get very rich deals in excess of $10M per year. Matthews would be a max if it weren't for his injury. Carroll and Green could easily get chased by several teams and bid up by a desperate one. They are quality starters who fit in nicely next to a star player. You are absolutely right that they are not the star, but they are great guys to have as third or fourth options in your starting lineup who can shoot and play quality defense. Sort of like Shump, but with offense.

Anyway, we'll see. But the word is a lot of Gms around the league are nervous about the level of contracts people will offer this summer.

martin wrote:Haven't seen much of Carrol all year, can he play the 2?

Yes Martin hes a 2-3-4 hybrid. That would help us because we will have Carmelos knee to deal with. But Carroll is getting more expensive by the day

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:DeMarre Carroll's playoffs stats:

18.9ppg 55.6%fg 46.5%3pt 6.5rpg 2.6apg

for you advanced folks - .234 WS/48 in the playoffs 132 Ortg 105 Drtg .684 TS%

DeMarre is gonna get PAID based on these playoffs.

I think you are close to being dead on. He may not get a pure max(although he might)--but he IS going to get 13mm+ think about it with 12 teams with more than max cap space--can u think of 12 players who will be available? One smart team will offer Demmarre a high amount given these contracts come at a 71% discount. And you're right hes playing like a max player right now. Hes playing just as well or better than Butler or Leonard. He destroyed Danny Greens playoff numbers.

Yeah, you look at Eric Bledsoe getting a max at 14ppg 7apg. He's younger than Carroll and it's a PG league... but...

This summer Phoenix will probably also give a max to Brandon Knight - it locks in a very good young player for a long time at a reasonable deal in the new environment.

I don't know about a true max for Carroll - but yeah $12M starting salary over four years? Absolutely. Kenneth Faried got 4yrs $48M!! Carroll will get at least that from someone.

I think Carroll gets an offer of 4yr $50M from someone. I think some team could come at him with 4yr $60M.

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:Haven't seen much of Carrol all year, can he play the 2?

Yes Martin hes a 2-3-4 hybrid. That would help us because we will have Carmelos knee to deal with. But Carroll is getting more expensive by the day

yeah, he's 6'8" and can defend multiple positions. I think he's most at home at SF, but I think you can play him next to Melo at the forward or play him at SG.

he'd be a great fit for this team.

honestly, if the Knicks went out and signed Greg Monroe and DeMarre Carroll this off-season and draft Towns, Okafor or Russell, I think that'd be a very good off season.

I'm not sure of the math, but I think the Knicks could offer a starting salary of $15M to Monroe and $12M to Carroll and still have cap room for their draft pick and Shved.

I could live with:

Galloway / Shved / Calderon
Carroll / Hardaway
Melo / Early (Carroll can play here too)
Monroe / Amundson
Towns / Cole (would need to try to add another big here who could play the 4/5 for cheap with a midlevel exception or something)

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:DeMarre Carroll's playoffs stats:

18.9ppg 55.6%fg 46.5%3pt 6.5rpg 2.6apg

for you advanced folks - .234 WS/48 in the playoffs 132 Ortg 105 Drtg .684 TS%

DeMarre is gonna get PAID based on these playoffs.

I think you are close to being dead on. He may not get a pure max(although he might)--but he IS going to get 13mm+ think about it with 12 teams with more than max cap space--can u think of 12 players who will be available? One smart team will offer Demmarre a high amount given these contracts come at a 71% discount. And you're right hes playing like a max player right now. Hes playing just as well or better than Butler or Leonard. He destroyed Danny Greens playoff numbers.

Yeah, you look at Eric Bledsoe getting a max at 14ppg 7apg. He's younger than Carroll and it's a PG league... but...

This summer Phoenix will probably also give a max to Brandon Knight - it locks in a very good young player for a long time at a reasonable deal in the new environment.

I don't know about a true max for Carroll - but yeah $12M starting salary over four years? Absolutely. Kenneth Faried got 4yrs $48M!! Carroll will get at least that from someone.

I think Carroll gets an offer of 4yr $50M from someone. I think some team could come at him with 4yr $60M.

	                        Salary
Rk	Team	                2015-16 ▴	
1	Philadelphia 76ers	$29,848,784		
2	San Antonio Spurs	$33,659,326			
3	New York Knicks	        $34,947,770		
4	Orlando Magic	        $36,282,694			
5	Portland Trail Blazers	$39,954,725			
6	Boston Celtics	        $42,301,398		
7	Atlanta Hawks	        $43,637,630	
8	Phoenix Suns	        $43,777,348		
9	Dallas Mavericks	$44,258,360		
10	Detroit Pistons	        $45,750,517	
11	Milwaukee Bucks	        $48,440,375	
12	Toronto Raptors	        $48,449,074		
13	Los Angeles Lakers	$48,655,568	
14	Memphis Grizzlies	$50,475,593		
15	Sacramento Kings	$54,663,858		
16	Utah Jazz	        $54,755,468		
17	New Orleans Pelicans	$56,289,291	
18	Minnesota Timberwolves	$56,678,076		
19	Denver Nuggets	        $61,041,313		
20	Indiana Pacers	        $63,536,742		
21	Chicago Bulls	        $63,965,681		
22	Houston Rockets	        $65,429,339	
23	Charlotte Hornets	$66,010,313		
24	Los Angeles Clippers	$69,255,963		
25	Washington Wizards	$71,455,267	
26	Oklahoma City Thunder	$78,260,712	
27	Miami Heat	        $80,955,274		
28	Golden State Warriors	$83,431,816		
29	Cleveland Cavaliers	$88,274,419	
30	Brooklyn Nets	        $89,603,877		

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:DeMarre Carroll's playoffs stats:

18.9ppg 55.6%fg 46.5%3pt 6.5rpg 2.6apg

for you advanced folks - .234 WS/48 in the playoffs 132 Ortg 105 Drtg .684 TS%

DeMarre is gonna get PAID based on these playoffs.

I think you are close to being dead on. He may not get a pure max(although he might)--but he IS going to get 13mm+ think about it with 12 teams with more than max cap space--can u think of 12 players who will be available? One smart team will offer Demmarre a high amount given these contracts come at a 71% discount. And you're right hes playing like a max player right now. Hes playing just as well or better than Butler or Leonard. He destroyed Danny Greens playoff numbers.

Yeah, you look at Eric Bledsoe getting a max at 14ppg 7apg. He's younger than Carroll and it's a PG league... but...

This summer Phoenix will probably also give a max to Brandon Knight - it locks in a very good young player for a long time at a reasonable deal in the new environment.

I don't know about a true max for Carroll - but yeah $12M starting salary over four years? Absolutely. Kenneth Faried got 4yrs $48M!! Carroll will get at least that from someone.

I think Carroll gets an offer of 4yr $50M from someone. I think some team could come at him with 4yr $60M.

I'm doubtful about this claim. Which teams are you supposing will go hard for Carroll? The projected cap for 2015-16 is $67,100,000. I think very few teams will be wanting to pay a 29 yr old SF $12 mil, much less $15 mil per.

	                        Salary
Rk	Team	                2015-16 ▴	
1	Philadelphia 76ers	$29,848,784		
2	San Antonio Spurs	$33,659,326			
3	New York Knicks	        $34,947,770		
4	Orlando Magic	        $36,282,694			
5	Portland Trail Blazers	$39,954,725			
6	Boston Celtics	        $42,301,398		
7	Atlanta Hawks	        $43,637,630	
8	Phoenix Suns	        $43,777,348		
9	Dallas Mavericks	$44,258,360		
10	Detroit Pistons	        $45,750,517	
11	Milwaukee Bucks	        $48,440,375	
12	Toronto Raptors	        $48,449,074		
13	Los Angeles Lakers	$48,655,568	
14	Memphis Grizzlies	$50,475,593		
15	Sacramento Kings	$54,663,858		
16	Utah Jazz	        $54,755,468		
17	New Orleans Pelicans	$56,289,291	
18	Minnesota Timberwolves	$56,678,076		
19	Denver Nuggets	        $61,041,313		
20	Indiana Pacers	        $63,536,742		
21	Chicago Bulls	        $63,965,681		
22	Houston Rockets	        $65,429,339	
23	Charlotte Hornets	$66,010,313		
24	Los Angeles Clippers	$69,255,963		
25	Washington Wizards	$71,455,267	
26	Oklahoma City Thunder	$78,260,712	
27	Miami Heat	        $80,955,274		
28	Golden State Warriors	$83,431,816		
29	Cleveland Cavaliers	$88,274,419	
30	Brooklyn Nets	        $89,603,877		

There is plenty of space there--hes getting ATLEAST 12-13mm and if a team feels they would be left out of free agency and understands that the contracts are really at a discount---I can see on team paying 14-15mm. No team is getting Carrol for 8mm anymore.

Atlanta has new owners with deep pockets though, and cap room. I think they'll face pressure to re-sign Millsap and Carroll and keep together their best team in a while.

Edit: Actually being that the Hawks can offer that extra year, he's possibly looking at 10-13 per from other teams. Nice come up!

RicanHavok wrote:Rumors here in ATL have the Hawks prepared to offer 40 m for 5 years. Basically doubling is his current 4 mil per. If any team is gonna steal him they might have to go 9-10 per.

That's good info - thanks.

He's been from the South his whole life, so he may want to stay in that general region.

I think some team will wind up offering more than that, but I'd expect the Hawks to match up to a reasonable number.

crzymdups wrote:

RicanHavok wrote:Rumors here in ATL have the Hawks prepared to offer 40 m for 5 years. Basically doubling is his current 4 mil per. If any team is gonna steal him they might have to go 9-10 per.

That's good info - thanks.

He's been from the South his whole life, so he may want to stay in that general region.

I think some team will wind up offering more than that, but I'd expect the Hawks to match up to a reasonable number.

crzymdups wrote:

RicanHavok wrote:Rumors here in ATL have the Hawks prepared to offer 40 m for 5 years. Basically doubling is his current 4 mil per. If any team is gonna steal him they might have to go 9-10 per.

That's good info - thanks.

He's been from the South his whole life, so he may want to stay in that general region.

I think some team will wind up offering more than that, but I'd expect the Hawks to match up to a reasonable number.

If I was the hawks Id pay up to keep Carroll. They dont have a Carroll in the pipeline--they have C PF and PG's but Carroll is kind of like their Dray Green and in the playoffs he s been a max player. 5 years 55 mm will be a tough number to beat--that puts pressure on teams to go to 4 56-60mm

BRIGGS wrote:If I was the hawks Id pay up to keep Carroll. They dont have a Carroll in the pipeline--they have C PF and PG's but Carroll is kind of like their Dray Green and in the playoffs he s been a max player. 5 years 55 mm will be a tough number to beat--that puts pressure on teams to go to 4 56-60mm

now you see why the knicks wont get him. lol. Not only does atlanta need his skill set but im sure he would want to continue with a winning team rather than go back to suffering with a rebuilding team. (dont forget he wasted away in siberia -oops i mean utah)

callmened wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If I was the hawks Id pay up to keep Carroll. They dont have a Carroll in the pipeline--they have C PF and PG's but Carroll is kind of like their Dray Green and in the playoffs he s been a max player. 5 years 55 mm will be a tough number to beat--that puts pressure on teams to go to 4 56-60mm

now you see why the knicks wont get him. lol. Not only does atlanta need his skill set but im sure he would want to continue with a winning team rather than go back to suffering with a rebuilding team. (dont forget he wasted away in siberia -oops i mean utah)

Knicks can go higher if they really want him. I don't think he's a high priority for the Knicks tho. Knicks will have about $30 mil with the new cap. They could have a bit more depending on which pick they get and if the Stretch Jose.

nixluva wrote:DeMarre is going to be 29 this July. He's having a great playoffs but we have to keep things in perspective. How many teams will be shopping for a 29 yr old role player at SF this summer? He's nice player but let's not get crazy either. Guys like DeMarre, Danny Green and Wesley Matthews are great players to have when you have even better players who can create shots and open things up for them. It's not like you're gonna be giving the ball to these guys and getting out of the way. That's why they don't get the Max.

How many young teams are in the playoffs, and doesn't every player need room, having shooters on a team will open the floor, thats basically the league today.

Does ATL want to lock up an old core?

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:DeMarre is going to be 29 this July. He's having a great playoffs but we have to keep things in perspective. How many teams will be shopping for a 29 yr old role player at SF this summer? He's nice player but let's not get crazy either. Guys like DeMarre, Danny Green and Wesley Matthews are great players to have when you have even better players who can create shots and open things up for them. It's not like you're gonna be giving the ball to these guys and getting out of the way. That's why they don't get the Max.

How many young teams are in the playoffs, and doesn't every player need room, having shooters on a team will open the floor, thats basically the league today.

Many teams have gone to a 4 out style of play which creates space. That's not really an issue for most teams. The problem for Carroll, Danny Green and Matthews is they are older and many of the teams with cap space aren't buyers. They either have young teams looking to go young or they're old teams looking to keep their own big time free agents.

Then you have to remove teams with space who don't need a starting SG/SF. The market will get smaller when you take all these things into account. That will work in the Knicks favor.

callmened wrote:great point...how old is carroll? 29? would you give him a long term 5 yr commitment?

He'll turn 29 in June. Can you give Carroll a 5 yr deal and not offer the 30 y/o Millsap a 5 yr deal or vice versa? On top of that Horford will be a 30 y/o FA next year. I guess you can always cross that bridge when you come to it but FO suppose look a stuff like that.

On top of all this the personal choice players like Millsap and Carroll will have about long term security versus short term money and a chance for more in 2016. Will a team offer them a large two year deal with an option, (mini Lebron deal)?