I have Stockton slightly in front of Mchale with Carmelo third and Vince 4th.
anthony, vince - no defense just scoring/losers
stockton - i only saw the end of his career and he wasnt too impressive/but i appreciate a passer who makes their teams better
mchale = im only picking kevin cuz i wasnt around to know his ups and downs/i only know that he won 3 rings/barkley calls him the best big man hes ever played
slight edge of McHale over stockton simply due to the myth
Depends on the era and venue but I'd go with Stockton. This is a PG dominated era and the fact is that he had the kind of character and leadership abilities to hone his craft in spite of the distractions that New York has to offer.
Meanwhile Vince Carter had no leadership abilities to speak of and was a well known flake, which I don't think would've bode well in this environment. Carmelo means well but is more of a Sonny Corlene than a Michael and his style of play doesn't exactly entice others to want to play with him. McHale was a hell of a player but I think Stockton's personality made him more of a preferable candidate; anyone would want to play with a John Stockton, especially since he was an iron-man that never missed games and could always be counted on.
BRIGGS wrote:I have Stockton slightly in front of Mchale with Carmelo third and Vince 4th.
I got to rank them?
Stockton, McHale and then honestly, I might go Vince over Carmelo, simply because Vince is still playing, and not sure Carmelo will have that kind of longevity.
i just remember a slow slow stockton getting schooled by payton. but yes ideally a passer to distribute is ideal. but i appreciate hall of fame WINNERS like kevin
callmened wrote:anthony, vince - no defense just scoring/losers
stockton - i only saw the end of his career and he wasnt too impressive/but i appreciate a passer who makes their teams better
mchale = im only picking kevin cuz i wasnt around to know his ups and downs/i only know that he won 3 rings/barkley calls him the best big man hes ever playedslight edge of McHale over stockton simply due to the myth
wow no myth--Kevin Mchale was great--he mightve been better on a different team--he couldve easily averaged 25-30 points elsewhere. When people say great footwork in the post--they are not talking about Tim Duncan--they are talking to the master Kevin Mchale. The only guy who was better than Mchale in the post was Hakeem.
callmened wrote:i just remember a slow slow stockton getting schooled by payton. but yes ideally a passer to distribute is ideal. but i appreciate hall of fame WINNERS like kevin
-->slow slow stockton???? Stockton was one of the quickest players in NBA history maybe you were thinking of Dwayne Poolee.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:i just remember a slow slow stockton getting schooled by payton. but yes ideally a passer to distribute is ideal. but i appreciate hall of fame WINNERS like kevin
-->slow slow stockton???? Stockton was one of the quickest players in NBA history maybe you were thinking of Dwayne Poolee.
hahahahah...no i remember watching a 40 yr old PG..at that point he was slow...im sure in his prime he was quick
callmened wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:i just remember a slow slow stockton getting schooled by payton. but yes ideally a passer to distribute is ideal. but i appreciate hall of fame WINNERS like kevin
-->slow slow stockton???? Stockton was one of the quickest players in NBA history maybe you were thinking of Dwayne Poolee.
hahahahah...no i remember watching a 40 yr old PG..at that point he was slow...im sure in his prime he was quick
John Stockton is probably quicker now than many guards.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:anthony, vince - no defense just scoring/losers
stockton - i only saw the end of his career and he wasnt too impressive/but i appreciate a passer who makes their teams better
mchale = im only picking kevin cuz i wasnt around to know his ups and downs/i only know that he won 3 rings/barkley calls him the best big man hes ever playedslight edge of McHale over stockton simply due to the myth
wow no myth--Kevin Mchale was great--he mightve been better on a different team--he couldve easily averaged 25-30 points elsewhere. When people say great footwork in the post--they are not talking about Tim Duncan--they are talking to the master Kevin Mchale. The only guy who was better than Mchale in the post was Hakeem.
by myth i meant mystique..ive seen old footage of mchale and he was AMAZING. im was just saying that even though stockton or any hall of fame pg would be ideal for starting a team, id pick mchale cuz of his mythological pedigree (aka he was a LEGEND)
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:i just remember a slow slow stockton getting schooled by payton. but yes ideally a passer to distribute is ideal. but i appreciate hall of fame WINNERS like kevin
-->slow slow stockton???? Stockton was one of the quickest players in NBA history maybe you were thinking of Dwayne Poolee.
"maybe you were thinking of Dwayne Poolee." dig noted...u really hate when people disagree with you huh
to put vince and meo in the same conversations mchale and stockton is insulting to them..thats a joke
to me i never saw stockton or mchale in their prime (the only thing i remember was a washed up old 40yr old stockton). so to me, im picking based on reputation, accomplishments and old tv footage ive seen. my logic says you always start a team with a hall of fame PG. but then i also respect and value players that have WON. so i give a slight edge to Mchale
i hope thats ok with you BRIGGS
to put vince and meo in the same conversations mchale and stockton is insulting to them..thats a joke
to me i never saw stockton or mchale in their prime (the only thing i remember was a washed up old 40yr old stockton). so to me, im picking based on reputation, accomplishments and old tv footage ive seen. my logic says you always start a team with a hall of fame PG. but then i also respect and value players that have WON. so i give a slight edge to Mchale
i hope thats ok with you BRIGGS
callmened wrote:to put vince and meo in the same conversations mchale and stockton is insulting to them..thats a joketo me i never saw stockton or mchale in their prime (the only thing i remember was a washed up old 40yr old stockton). so to me, im picking based on reputation, accomplishments and old tv footage ive seen. my logic says you always start a team with a hall of fame PG. but then i also respect and value players that have WON. so i give a slight edge to Mchale
i hope thats ok with you BRIGGS
I wouldnt say that that at all--come on carmelo and vince are multi all stars. Id say they are not top 50 all timers. the thing about stockton that some people dont remember but he was almost unstoppable going to where he wanted to go--how tough he was and how much of gamer he was---and easily a top 50 defender.
i think so much has value has been placed on one dimensional players who can score. great for sportscenter highlights but im never impressed. melo and vince fit that category. talented all stars who havent won much. theyll both make the hall of fame but i dont value their overall games. but no way in hell id start a franchise around them (even though denver did and became a playoff team once melo arrived)
in regards to stockton: i remember his short shorts and i think i have his basketball cards. i always wondered who benefitted more: mailman or stockton?kinda like amare or nash? was mailman great cuz stockton set him up? or did stockton pile up assists cuz of malone? i dont know.its probably 50-50. i wasnt old enough to observe critically
J.Stockton made players like Shandon Anderson, D. Benoit and B.Russell look good. That should tell you something right there.
Stockton by a mile.
How did Melo and Vince get on this list?
Interesting.
McHale plays almost his entire career with Bird, and also gets to be a "legend". I saw him play regularly. Nothing incredible.
Stockton played his entire career with Malone. Tough, dirty, gritty guard. If he's not playing with an all time great PF, what separates him from Scott
Skiles?
Nice list, BRIGGS. What exactly was the agenda here?
mreinman wrote:Stockton by a mile.How did Melo and Vince get on this list?
because we have Melo and there needed to be at least one person who wasn't vastly better than him?
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:anthony, vince - no defense just scoring/losers
stockton - i only saw the end of his career and he wasnt too impressive/but i appreciate a passer who makes their teams better
mchale = im only picking kevin cuz i wasnt around to know his ups and downs/i only know that he won 3 rings/barkley calls him the best big man hes ever playedslight edge of McHale over stockton simply due to the myth
wow no myth--Kevin Mchale was great--he mightve been better on a different team--he couldve easily averaged 25-30 points elsewhere. When people say great footwork in the post--they are not talking about Tim Duncan--they are talking to the master Kevin Mchale. The only guy who was better than Mchale in the post was Hakeem.
exzctly people voting Stockton never seen Mchale play. What's the point of this anyway. Random group of players
