Knicks · The Case for Willie Trill Cauley Stein (page 12)
crzymdups wrote:Also, it amuses me that WCS averaged 8.9ppg 6.4rpg at Kentucky and Briggs say he has no offense. Karl Anthony Towns averaged 10.3ppg 6.7rpg and Briggs has him slated to average 34ppg 15rpg in the NBA. I absolutely agree Towns is an all world prospect... but that just makes me smile.
Kentucky had so much talent that no one was really able to spread their wings and show everything they could do. Clearly that would have an impact on how players performed. Phil and his staff were ALL OVER the Kentucky practices and i'm sure they got to see a lot more than we did in all of those scouting trips. Now they'll get to test out what WCS can do for themselves and i'm sure they'll test drive his skills in basic Triangle stuff.
Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.
Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.
We aren't going to find a more serviceable C for $4mil a year, ever- he really helps free up money to fill out the rest of the roster for years to come. If we don't draft him, likely we're paying out $15mil a year and up for Monroe.
Also, as I have said before, I can't take watching a crap defensive team anymore- it's been embarrassing to watch scrub after scrub after scrub go off on us. WCS is a a nice foundation to putting a stop to that (though it's vital we don't just leave it up to him like we did with Tyson).
However, although he makes sense logically, I do kind of hope we go for Winslow, or Mudiay- they are more exciting prospects.
Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.
NY supposedly loves guys who hustle and defend at a high level. All of a sudden now it's a bad idea to take an elite defensive 7'er. WCS can defend anywhere on the floor and protect the rim. There's no downside to adding that to your roster. On top of that the kid actually has upside. He's showing that he may still be able to develop his offensive game.
It's not like WCS has zero aptitude offensively. He's got some ability and just needs to keep working on refining his skills. Tyson has averaged 10 ppg with almost no offense outside of dunks. I think WCS is already ahead of where Tyson was at the same age offensively. Tyson has averaged about 6 shots a game for most of his career. I think if WCS is given a role in this offense he can average closer to 10 shots and more points than Tyson.
smackeddog wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.We aren't going to find a more serviceable C for $4mil a year, ever- he really helps free up money to fill out the rest of the roster for years to come. If we don't draft him, likely we're paying out $15mil a year and up for Monroe.
Also, as I have said before, I can't take watching a crap defensive team anymore- it's been embarrassing to watch scrub after scrub after scrub go off on us. WCS is a a nice foundation to putting a stop to that (though it's vital we don't just leave it up to him like we did with Tyson).
However, although he makes sense logically, I do kind of hope we go for Winslow, or Mudiay- they are more exciting prospects.
To me, WCS is the more exciting player at 4; specifically, given that Russell and Towns will not be on the board. His game helps everyone to play at a higher level. He forced the PG to push the ball, because he runs the floor so well and finishes with authority. He helps poor defenders to look somewhat decent, because he is always ready to help. If this kid can actually shoot the ball during the game, watch out. I see this kid as someone that can exceed expectation
Knicks1969 wrote:smackeddog wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.We aren't going to find a more serviceable C for $4mil a year, ever- he really helps free up money to fill out the rest of the roster for years to come. If we don't draft him, likely we're paying out $15mil a year and up for Monroe.
Also, as I have said before, I can't take watching a crap defensive team anymore- it's been embarrassing to watch scrub after scrub after scrub go off on us. WCS is a a nice foundation to putting a stop to that (though it's vital we don't just leave it up to him like we did with Tyson).
However, although he makes sense logically, I do kind of hope we go for Winslow, or Mudiay- they are more exciting prospects.
To me, WCS is the more exciting player at 4; specifically, given that Russell and Towns will not be on the board. His game helps everyone to play at a higher level. He forced the PG to push the ball, because he runs the floor so well and finishes with authority. He helps poor defenders to look somewhat decent, because he is always ready to help. If this kid can actually shoot the ball during the game, watch out. I see this kid as someone that can exceed expectation
Exactly. People just assume WCS doesn't have upside and in truth that's not so certain. His strengths on D are enough to warrant a high draft pick, but his increasing offensive ability could be what takes him over the top. The kid finishes over the top of defense at 72%. If he can continue to improve his FT shooting as he has and also add more of his Jump Hook and Mid Range Jumper, that's all he'd need to be an effective 2 way player.
IMO he just has to be aggressive and confident. Don't worry about missing. That's how the Knicks handled their bigs this year. They were given the green light to shoot. Even if you miss it's still the right thing to do when open and in rhythm. WCS also can face up and drive against slower bigs.
WCS also gets steals and he runs like a deer. The entire team should get out and run much more often with him on D creating fast breaks. The Give n Go and PnR should make a strong showing next year if we add WCS. Guards can attack the basket to draw defenders and dump off to Stein for a lot of dunks.
Knicks1969 wrote:I would do Winslow if a team like Charlotte or Orlando would be willing to trade their top pick and a second rounder.
Thats only if WCS and Winslow are considered equal in value, which might be the case for some teams. Unfortunately for us, a defensive center is more of a need than a defensive SG/SF. Also finding a center of this caliber might be difficult, especially with a second pick. We really don't know if a defensive center will be within range of a second pick, IF we can get one. And I know there aren't any defensive bigs in free agency that cost 4 mil a year....not at his caliber. But there are SF's that will be available, and usually they are cheaper than a center. Someone like Crowder for example.
nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:smackeddog wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.We aren't going to find a more serviceable C for $4mil a year, ever- he really helps free up money to fill out the rest of the roster for years to come. If we don't draft him, likely we're paying out $15mil a year and up for Monroe.
Also, as I have said before, I can't take watching a crap defensive team anymore- it's been embarrassing to watch scrub after scrub after scrub go off on us. WCS is a a nice foundation to putting a stop to that (though it's vital we don't just leave it up to him like we did with Tyson).
However, although he makes sense logically, I do kind of hope we go for Winslow, or Mudiay- they are more exciting prospects.
To me, WCS is the more exciting player at 4; specifically, given that Russell and Towns will not be on the board. His game helps everyone to play at a higher level. He forced the PG to push the ball, because he runs the floor so well and finishes with authority. He helps poor defenders to look somewhat decent, because he is always ready to help. If this kid can actually shoot the ball during the game, watch out. I see this kid as someone that can exceed expectation
Exactly. People just assume WCS doesn't have upside and in truth that's not so certain. His strengths on D are enough to warrant a high draft pick, but his increasing offensive ability could be what takes him over the top. The kid finishes over the top of defense at 72%. If he can continue to improve his FT shooting as he has and also add more of his Jump Hook and Mid Range Jumper, that's all he'd need to be an effective 2 way player.
IMO he just has to be aggressive and confident. Don't worry about missing. That's how the Knicks handled their bigs this year. They were given the green light to shoot. Even if you miss it's still the right thing to do when open and in rhythm. WCS also can face up and drive against slower bigs.
WCS also gets steals and he runs like a deer. The entire team should get out and run much more often with him on D creating fast breaks. The Give n Go and PnR should make a strong showing next year if we add WCS. Guards can attack the basket to draw defenders and dump off to Stein for a lot of dunks.
Stein needs a good dose of Olajuwan or Kareem to become a juggernaut on offense. He has excellent foot work and shooting touch, which put him at a much more advanced pace then Howard or other bigs when they entered the league.
blkexec wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I would do Winslow if a team like Charlotte or Orlando would be willing to trade their top pick and a second rounder.Thats only if WCS and Winslow are considered equal in value, which might be the case for some teams. Unfortunately for us, a defensive center is more of a need than a defensive SG/SF. Also finding a center of this caliber might be difficult, especially with a second pick. We really don't know if a defensive center will be within range of a second pick, IF we can get one. And I know there aren't any defensive bigs in free agency that cost 4 mil a year....not at his caliber. But there are SF's that will be available, and usually they are cheaper than a center. Someone like Crowder for example.
Agree.
blkexec wrote:
How many centers in the NBA can put on pads and play wide receiver? I played wide receiver, and you have to have some agility, hands and coordination to run routes, make cuts, and tough enough to get through defensive contact....Then the speed needed for separation. We aren't talking about the TE position.....Thats where Dwight Howard would play. This dude is special. Is he an NBA star? who knows....But he's not the normal NBA center. Agility and coordination is something 7 footers usually lack. If he was 5 inches shorter, he probably would've bulked up and played football. The fact that he already added 22 lbs and increased his vertical to 42 is crazy (assuming thats all true).....Porzingis went back to school to put on muscle and weight....A year later, he's the same weight. How is that even possible, when your goal is the gain weight?
Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:smackeddog wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:I don't understand why some of you can think so poorly of Stein but turn around and argue why the Knicks MUST select Mudiay or Pojensky whi are all unknown with the lottery pick. We've all watched this kid disrupt opposing teams with his defense; in fact, he is displaying shooting skills that he was not asked to show in Kentucky. He is a pure 7 footer and possess some of the best athleticism that we have not seen in a big man since Olajuwan. I think this kid is more then deserving of the fourth pick, and would welcome him with open arms to play at MSG.We aren't going to find a more serviceable C for $4mil a year, ever- he really helps free up money to fill out the rest of the roster for years to come. If we don't draft him, likely we're paying out $15mil a year and up for Monroe.
Also, as I have said before, I can't take watching a crap defensive team anymore- it's been embarrassing to watch scrub after scrub after scrub go off on us. WCS is a a nice foundation to putting a stop to that (though it's vital we don't just leave it up to him like we did with Tyson).
However, although he makes sense logically, I do kind of hope we go for Winslow, or Mudiay- they are more exciting prospects.
To me, WCS is the more exciting player at 4; specifically, given that Russell and Towns will not be on the board. His game helps everyone to play at a higher level. He forced the PG to push the ball, because he runs the floor so well and finishes with authority. He helps poor defenders to look somewhat decent, because he is always ready to help. If this kid can actually shoot the ball during the game, watch out. I see this kid as someone that can exceed expectation
Exactly. People just assume WCS doesn't have upside and in truth that's not so certain. His strengths on D are enough to warrant a high draft pick, but his increasing offensive ability could be what takes him over the top. The kid finishes over the top of defense at 72%. If he can continue to improve his FT shooting as he has and also add more of his Jump Hook and Mid Range Jumper, that's all he'd need to be an effective 2 way player.
IMO he just has to be aggressive and confident. Don't worry about missing. That's how the Knicks handled their bigs this year. They were given the green light to shoot. Even if you miss it's still the right thing to do when open and in rhythm. WCS also can face up and drive against slower bigs.
WCS also gets steals and he runs like a deer. The entire team should get out and run much more often with him on D creating fast breaks. The Give n Go and PnR should make a strong showing next year if we add WCS. Guards can attack the basket to draw defenders and dump off to Stein for a lot of dunks.Stein needs a good dose of Olajuwan or Kareem to become a juggernaut on offense. He has excellent foot work and shooting touch, which put him at a much more advanced pace then Howard or other bigs when they entered the league.
I agree. WCS is not the typical uncoordinated big who has no touch. He quite clearly has touch on his shots. He can move very well for a 7'er. I think he's more than capable of learning the Olajuwon footwork. Even if he doesn't get with an Olajuwon, just getting his skills up to nailing the mid range face up and refining his back to the basket Jump Hook would be enough to make him a very good player. I feel that Winslow and WCS are fairly even in talent but that WCS being a 7'er puts him over the top for the Knicks.
blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:How many centers in the NBA can put on pads and play wide receiver? I played wide receiver, and you have to have some agility, hands and coordination to run routes, make cuts, and tough enough to get through defensive contact....Then the speed needed for separation. We aren't talking about the TE position.....Thats where Dwight Howard would play. This dude is special. Is he an NBA star? who knows....But he's not the normal NBA center. Agility and coordination is something 7 footers usually lack. If he was 5 inches shorter, he probably would've bulked up and played football. The fact that he already added 22 lbs and increased his vertical to 42 is crazy (assuming thats all true).....Porzingis went back to school to put on muscle and weight....A year later, he's the same weight. How is that even possible, when your goal is the gain weight?
I know we keep highlighting how extraordinary WCS is at 7' to be as agile and quick as he is, not to mention his explosion, but I don't think most are understanding how rare he is. I personally think he's got loads of untapped potential. You can just see it when he moves. It's not that he can't as much as he hasn't learned and developed his offense yet. If he ever gets confident in his offense, look out!!! His 1st step looks almost as quick as Amar'e. He should be able to drive by big slow Centers and score over the top of PF's.
nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:How many centers in the NBA can put on pads and play wide receiver? I played wide receiver, and you have to have some agility, hands and coordination to run routes, make cuts, and tough enough to get through defensive contact....Then the speed needed for separation. We aren't talking about the TE position.....Thats where Dwight Howard would play. This dude is special. Is he an NBA star? who knows....But he's not the normal NBA center. Agility and coordination is something 7 footers usually lack. If he was 5 inches shorter, he probably would've bulked up and played football. The fact that he already added 22 lbs and increased his vertical to 42 is crazy (assuming thats all true).....Porzingis went back to school to put on muscle and weight....A year later, he's the same weight. How is that even possible, when your goal is the gain weight?
I know we keep highlighting how extraordinary WCS is at 7' to be as agile and quick as he is, not to mention his explosion, but I don't think most are understanding how rare he is. I personally think he's got loads of untapped potential. You can just see it when he moves. It's not that he can't as much as he hasn't learned and developed his offense yet. If he ever gets confident in his offense, look out!!! His 1st step looks almost as quick as Amar'e. He should be able to drive by big slow Centers and score over the top of PF's.
I also thought he played 3 years in college, because he's a junior. But I read somewhere that he was injured most of the season last year, so he really played only 2 full years of college ball. Still has room to grow.
As you guys have made mention, WCS would be Melo's best friend in terms of help D and drawing attention as he roves around the paint area. Someone will always have to be glued to WCS because he's so quick and athletic. He can get to the rim in 2 steps anywhere within 15 feet. The thing I like about WCS in the triangle is the movement off the ball. Players are in motion and not just standing and watching. Anytime you get WCS moving at his size he's gonna draw attention.
nixluva wrote:We definitely could use an athletic 7'er who can rise above the defense and finish at a high %. Dude was 72% at the basket and he was very efficient on the break. When you add all that to his offensive rebounding, steals and great help defense he simply helps the team in more ways than a smaller player would. Even tho he wasn't a big offensive force he was still a top player in all of CBB in terms of his Plus Minus.As you guys have made mention, WCS would be Melo's best friend in terms of help D and drawing attention as he roves around the paint area. Someone will always have to be glued to WCS because he's so quick and athletic. He can get to the rim in 2 steps anywhere within 15 feet. The thing I like about WCS in the triangle is the movement off the ball. Players are in motion and not just standing and watching. Anytime you get WCS moving at his size he's gonna draw attention.
A lot of folks here would love to have a dude like Gobert in a Knicks uniform, so here is our chance to get an even better prospect. BRIGGS, didn't you tell me this dude is Rodman on steroid? You must not like Rodman's game..
Knicks1969 wrote:nixluva wrote:We definitely could use an athletic 7'er who can rise above the defense and finish at a high %. Dude was 72% at the basket and he was very efficient on the break. When you add all that to his offensive rebounding, steals and great help defense he simply helps the team in more ways than a smaller player would. Even tho he wasn't a big offensive force he was still a top player in all of CBB in terms of his Plus Minus.As you guys have made mention, WCS would be Melo's best friend in terms of help D and drawing attention as he roves around the paint area. Someone will always have to be glued to WCS because he's so quick and athletic. He can get to the rim in 2 steps anywhere within 15 feet. The thing I like about WCS in the triangle is the movement off the ball. Players are in motion and not just standing and watching. Anytime you get WCS moving at his size he's gonna draw attention.
A lot of folks here would love to have a dude like Gobert in a Knicks uniform, so here is our chance to get an even better prospect. BRIGGS, didn't you tell me this dude is Rodman on steroid? You must not like Rodman's game..
I love that we can get the rim protection and help D and he doesn't slow the team down!!! He's actually gonna speed the team up. He's so fast that it will make the team faster and we should get many more fast break opportunities. Less half court grind only helps the team. More early offense. We have kids that are very athletic and want to run. Shved would love to get out on the break with WCS and the other kids.