Knicks · The Case for Willie Trill Cauley Stein (page 13)

hmmmm i am warming up to this pick

In trying to show how WCS can impact his team despite not being a big offensive threat, I think this article does the best job of trying to quantify it.

It has become popular in basketball stats circles to measure player impact in terms of the difference between their on and off court impacts; that is, how does a team drop off when a player leaves the game? This takes the next step beyond accounting for a player’s individual stats, and moves to account for the impact a player has on how the rest of his team plays. It’s not perfect, since it usually doesn’t account for which teammates are in the game, or if the other team has their backups in…but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

I like to measure Isolated Plus/Minus, which helps to deal with some of these issues. I measure plus/minus for all the lineups a player is in, and compare that to the plus/minus of the remaining four players when any other player joins them. This at least controls for the quality of teammates, and looks at how each player impacts the game compared to their teammates. It’s not meant to rate individual players, but rather to identify how easily players are replaced by their teammates. So, how did UK’s roster stack up in the 2014/15 season?

The far right columns is what we’re measuring, and the higher the value the better. It attempts to capture the per-possession value each player adds (or subtracts) to the team’s scoring margin. By this measure, Willie Cauley-Stein and Tyler Ulis led the team, adding +.07 points per possession more than their teammates. So, what are they doing so well? Let’s look at their on/off court impact across a number of stats:

First, let’s look at Willie Cauley-Stein. He’s off to the NBA, but the mobile seven-footer made a large impact, particularly on the defensive end. What do the stats say?

UK Cauley-Stein Diff

As expected, Cauley-Stein’s impact is on the defensive end. UK allows 82 pts per 100 possessions when he’s in, and 90 pts/100 poss when he sits. UK does shoot better with him out, but also turns the ball over more. They also force more turnovers and draw more fouls with Willie in the game. His defensive presence is difficult to replicate, even on a roster as loaded as UK’s.

http://cats.cardsandcatsstats.com/uk-201...

Well WCS is working out for the Knicks June 16th. It stated he has put on 22 thats TWENTY two pounds and has added 5 inches to his vertical to 42 inches. If he honestly weighs 265 pounds now--Id change opinion on him. That would be someone who should do the pushing and not pushed around.

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

BRIGGS wrote:Well WCS is working out for the Knicks June 16th. It stated he has put on 22 thats TWENTY two pounds and has added 5 inches to his vertical to 42 inches. If he honestly weighs 265 pounds now--Id change opinion on him. That would be someone who should do the pushing and not pushed around.

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

I don't know if I can believe he put on 22 lbs but any added muscle will benefit him a the next level. Usually these kids get to fully concentrate on their conditioning and skills with the best trainers. I think WCS will be pretty impressive when he gets to NY for his workout. IMO I think he could be everything they want and need out of this draft. I think NY will grow to LOVE WCS if we draft him. They may boo at 1st but they'll cheer when they see his impact on defense and that he's not as deficient on offense as they assumed.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Well WCS is working out for the Knicks June 16th. It stated he has put on 22 thats TWENTY two pounds and has added 5 inches to his vertical to 42 inches. If he honestly weighs 265 pounds now--Id change opinion on him. That would be someone who should do the pushing and not pushed around.

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

I don't know if I can believe he put on 22 lbs but any added muscle will benefit him a the next level. Usually these kids get to fully concentrate on their conditioning and skills with the best trainers. I think WCS will be pretty impressive when he gets to NY for his workout. IMO I think he could be everything they want and need out of this draft. I think NY will grow to LOVE WCS if we draft him. They may boo at 1st but they'll cheer when they see his impact on defense and that he's not as deficient on offense as they assumed.

Its kind of hard to believe that someone who has been stable at 240-242 for 3 years weighs 265 pounds and jumps 5 inches taller than his highest tested vertical of 37 inches in all of 6 weeks naturally

re note--he just weighed 242 pounds at the Chicago combines 3 weeks ago--this is BS.

So the guy gains 20 pounds in two weeks and jumps tall buildings in a single bound... come on

this kid has No Offensive Game At All... he's played 3 years of college ball and never developed

a post game or shooting ability now you want to grab him with the 4th pick.

BRIGGS wrote:Well WCS is working out for the Knicks June 16th. It stated he has put on 22 thats TWENTY two pounds and has added 5 inches to his vertical to 42 inches. If he honestly weighs 265 pounds now--Id change opinion on him. That would be someone who should do the pushing and not pushed around.

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

I bet the Knicks are putting out these reports to get some fan support before the draft. A 7 foot defensive center, 265 that leaps 42 inches and shoots threes, now? I bet he craps golden eggs too.

jamp wrote:So the guy gains 20 pounds in two weeks and jumps tall buildings in a single bound... come on

this kid has No Offensive Game At All... he's played 3 years of college ball and never developed

a post game or shooting ability now you want to grab him with the 4th pick.

Apparently you don't read threads fully cuz the many reasons to draft WCS are fully laid out in this thread. I suggest you read the whole thing before spouting off like you know what you're talking about. You draft WCS for his impact on your team's defense. He by himself improves your D and then you can add more 2 way players to build a championship level defense.

He actually isn't a total loss on offense. He is actually showing signs of improving his offense.

STARKVILLE, Miss. – You might've noticed Kentucky junior Willie Cauley-Stein, who is 7 feet tall, has been taking (and making) more (and deeper) jump shots. NBA scouts have are paying attention.

"Look, if he's going to do that," ESPN draft analyst Chad Ford said, "good Lord."

Cauley-Stein was already such an elite defender – arguably the best in the country, capable of locking down all five positions – and freak athlete, as many victims of his posterizing dunks can attest, that he was a projected lottery pick before he demonstrated a proficient jumper.

"People are resigned to taking him in the top 10 even while thinking that he'll never be a guy who averages double digits in the NBA," Ford said. "I think he's locked in as a top-10 pick without scoring. Just show us a little bit of that (and) then we start talking about Cauley-Stein as a top-five pick."

Cauley-Stein knows this – he's said is treating this season like his rookie year in the pros to start preparing himself for success at the next level – and when Wildcats coach John Calipari challenged individual players to pick something they wanted to add to their game two months ago, he chose the jump shot.

With increasingly frequency, Cauley-Stein is now showing he can step outside and swish. He sank both of his baseline jumpers in Saturday's rout of Auburn, including one from just a step inside the 3-point arc. Watch him warm up and see the big man make many more than he misses from 15 feet and beyond.

"How about Willie making jumpers?" a smirking Calipari said Saturday. "He's in the gym working, (so) shoot them in the game."

Cauley-Stein did it again Wednesday night against Mississippi State, but he badly missed his only jumper – a contested pull-up from the free-throw line – which his coach believes unnecessarily rattled his confidence. He finished with four points, eight rebounds and two blocks in another blowout victory.

"I want Willie to risk more. Risk! Go make a play," Calipari said. "He shot an airball at the foul line, so then he stopped playing offensively. That's crazy. You're the best player on the floor. Go play."

Even with the one ugly miss, Cauley-Stein has hit 33.9 percent of his two-point jump shots this season, according to HoopMath.com. That number, which has topped out around 36 percent, is solid for a guy his size. Consider that Kentucky shooting guard Aaron Harrison is at 33.3 percent.

"I've been watching that number all year. He's getting in that range where he can credibly say that's a weapon," Ford said. "And if he can, like I said, really with him it's, 'Good Lord.' Because all the physical stuff that an NBA team would wish for in a 7-footer, he has all of it.

"He's a junior, so you think at the level of junior the upside is sort of gone, but I think the feeling with Cauley-Stein has always been he's a late bloomer; he's a little bit behind the developmental curve of other guys. I think teams still see upside there, and part of it is when you see him add these little wrinkles to his game like that."

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/spo...

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Well WCS is working out for the Knicks June 16th. It stated he has put on 22 thats TWENTY two pounds and has added 5 inches to his vertical to 42 inches. If he honestly weighs 265 pounds now--Id change opinion on him. That would be someone who should do the pushing and not pushed around.

Willie Cauley-Stein will work out for the Knicks on June 16, a source told SNY.tv.

The 6-foot-11 former Kentucky big man has added 22 pounds of muscle and his vertical is up to 42 inches, the source said.

I don't know if I can believe he put on 22 lbs but any added muscle will benefit him a the next level. Usually these kids get to fully concentrate on their conditioning and skills with the best trainers. I think WCS will be pretty impressive when he gets to NY for his workout. IMO I think he could be everything they want and need out of this draft. I think NY will grow to LOVE WCS if we draft him. They may boo at 1st but they'll cheer when they see his impact on defense and that he's not as deficient on offense as they assumed.

They will not boo this dude; in fact, that pick will be received with the same vigor as when we drafted Patrick. Howard went to Orlando as number one over A much more polished Okafor, while everyone knew he was horrendous on offense. Stein had plenty of time to showcase his talent on defense, and he wowwwwwd the nation with his ability. I was pleasantly surprised to watch his latest workout video in which he showed many that he CAN shoot the ball if allowed, he has an offensive game. All along, I thought this dude was going to be a Rodman/D. Jordan type player, but I now think if he can stay healthy, this dude might end up even better then the aforementioned. He is a pure 7 footer which is much taller then Rodman (6'7"), and D. Jordan (6'10")

Janp, WCS is a taller Kenyon Martin

4 - Kenyon MartinCincinnati

Birthday: Unknown
NBA Position: Power Forward
Class: Senior
Ht: 6-9
Wt: 230
Hometown: Dallas, TX
High School: Bryan Adams

7










10










9










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9










8










10

















9
Overall
106
NBA Comparison: Rasheed Wallace

Strengths: Freakish athleticism. Plays way above the rim. Great shot blocker, rebounder. Offensive game is vastly improved. Can post up and take his man off the dribble. Excells in crunchtime as witnessed versus DePaul. Strong character.

Weaknesses: Size, just under 6-9 and doesn't have much upper body strength. Will get pushed around some. Injury questions.

Outlook: Throughout the season has left little doubt that he is the #1 player in the country. Kenyon returned for his Senior season and benefitted tremendously. As a sophomore and even as a junior, Kenyon was mostly known as a rebounder and defender and his offensive game was somewhat limted with few offensive moves and no face the basket skills. Kenyon has developed his overall game tremendously and can now do it all. He can score facing the basket or posting up and is probably the most intimidating presence in the game today. Kenyon often blocks shots at their pinnacle, something Wilt Chamberlain used to do and something very few players are able to do on a regular basis. He takes goaltending calls sometimes but the plays are very effective in sending his opponent a message. Kenyon will be one of the top players selected in June's NBA draft.

Draft Outlook: Leading candidate for the top pick. A top 2 pick.

Stats:

G FG% FT% 3P% BPG SPG RPG APG PPG
96-97 Cincinnati 22 .650 .313 .000 1.1 0.6 3.4 0.5 2.8
97-98 Cincinnati 30 .626 .476 .000 2.8 1.0 8.9 1.5 9.9
98-99 Cincinnati 33 .573 .562 .000 2.4 1.1 6.9 1.4 10.1
99-00 Cincinnati 31 .568 .684 .286 3.4 1.4 9.7 1.5 18.9
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Stein's most effective projected position is at 5, where, depending on match ups, a more central court position against a non-shooting opponent would be helpful defensively. At 5, along with a mobile 4, he limits opponent screen/roll options.

Still there are important tradeoffs; defensive rebounding and getting stalled on the weak side by superior strength. Realistically, in a playoff setting, it's not difficult to game plan to neutralize him: either a good "stretch" big or a good "strength" big limit his net production for the reasons above. Usually teams have at least one of the above. Moreover, although the defense determines the initial individual matchups, offensive talent offers greater versatility via the control of sets, mismatches and usage rates. This is an important consideration when the primary/only skill of interest is weak side help.

Stein improved in college in parallel with other players, slower than some of the premium prospects, but on par with a lottery pick. Appropriate at 10, but not at all at 4 where I expect a player to provide a net advantage across most matchup possibilities. Taking him at 4 would be incredibly stupid, willfully or otherwise neglecting his significant weaknesses, literal and figurative.

codeunknown wrote:Stein's most effective projected position is at 5, where, depending on match ups, a more central court position against a non-shooting opponent would be helpful defensively. At 5, along with a mobile 4, he limits opponent screen/roll options.

Still there are important tradeoffs; defensive rebounding and getting stalled on the weak side by superior strength. Realistically, in a playoff setting, it's not difficult to game plan to neutralize him: either a good "stretch" big or a good "strength" big limit his net production for the reasons above. Usually teams have at least one of the above. Moreover, although the defense determines the initial individual matchups, offensive talent offers greater versatility via the control of sets, mismatches and usage rates. This is an important consideration when the primary/only skill of interest is weak side help.

Stein improved in college in parallel with other players, slower than some of the premium prospects, but on par with a lottery pick. Appropriate at 10, but not at all at 4 where I expect a player to provide a net advantage across most matchup possibilities. Taking him at 4 would be incredibly stupid, willfully or otherwise neglecting his significant weaknesses, literal and figurative.

i agree. i am warming up to this pick in general because i'd prefer a big man not a PG in this year's draft even if it means trading down

Projecting how this players might develop is all in the eye of Phil and his staff to make that determination. If Mudiay doesn't show himself to be a player who has Superstar written all over him, I think the best pick will end up being WCS. Winslow is a nice player but I don't know if his overall impact would be as great or hard to replace via Free Agency as WCS. Mudiay, Winslow and WCS are all worthy options. The workout Monday should be really interesting as will WCS workout.

I wonder if Stein is part of my Jewish fraternity. I know many Steins and they're all Jewish.

BRIGGS wrote:I wonder if Stein is part of my Jewish fraternity. I know many Steins and they're all Jewish.

So its possible that he won't be available for Friday night games and Saturday morning practices?

What the heck!

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wonder if Stein is part of my Jewish fraternity. I know many Steins and they're all Jewish.

So its possible that he won't be available for Friday night games and Saturday morning practices?

What the heck!

Lol.....BRIGGS is trying to find all sorts of excuses to view STEIN in a negative light. We all know you prefer Kaminski dude:::)))))

Mudiay is Jewish

Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay is Jewish

is he reallY?

It's funny but WCS actually looked better shooting in his workout than Mudiay did. He by all rights shouldn't have been close and yet he was looking better.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay is Jewish

is he reallY?

He went to this school:

Grace Preparatory Academy (GPA) is a Christian college-preparatory school located in Arlington, Texas, United States. Founded in 1992, it offers programs for Kindergarten through Twelfth Grade students drawn from the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex.

Probably the type of school which would do a family ancestral search before selecting a student.

Knicks1969 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I wonder if Stein is part of my Jewish fraternity. I know many Steins and they're all Jewish.

So its possible that he won't be available for Friday night games and Saturday morning practices?

What the heck!

Lol.....BRIGGS is trying to find all sorts of excuses to view STEIN in a negative light. We all know you prefer Kaminski dude:::)))))

Pretty sure I saw a Jewish star amongst his many tattoos.