Knicks · The Case for Willie Trill Cauley Stein (page 23)
smackeddog wrote:blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
Cameron Payne looks really good too- a shame he won't be working out with us
You don't need to work him out. If a trade is made for another pick and hes available, you take him. Especially if our 4th pick is a big. Payne has the potential to be the best PG in the 1st round, once all the smoke clears.
How nice would it be to get Payne and Stein? Too bad we can't actually trade down to get Stein because too many teams value him so highly.
crzymdups wrote:Cameron Payne looks like he's gonna be a great NBA point guard.How nice would it be to get Payne and Stein? Too bad we can't actually trade down to get Stein because too many teams value him so highly.
My thoughts exactly!
crzymdups wrote:Cameron Payne looks like he's gonna be a great NBA point guard.How nice would it be to get Payne and Stein? Too bad we can't actually trade down to get Stein because too many teams value him so highly.
I still remain hopeful that something can be worked out, but it looks like the Kings and Magic would snatch up WCS with a quickness if we tried to move down. I don't think it's worth the risk. I want Phil to grab the best help defender in this draft and set this summer up right. He may just be able to make a deal to grab another pick. I'd be ecstatic if he was able to do that and grab Payne too. In any event I do think Phil is determined to get another pick in this draft which would be awesome.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Cameron Payne looks like he's gonna be a great NBA point guard.How nice would it be to get Payne and Stein? Too bad we can't actually trade down to get Stein because too many teams value him so highly.
I still remain hopeful that something can be worked out, but it looks like the Kings and Magic would snatch up WCS with a quickness if we tried to move down. I don't think it's worth the risk. I want Phil to grab the best help defender in this draft and set this summer up right. He may just be able to make a deal to grab another pick. I'd be ecstatic if he was able to do that and grab Payne too. In any event I do think Phil is determined to get another pick in this draft which would be awesome.
Magic supposedly told Porzingis that they would take him at 12 until he dropped out of the draft.
Don't be surprised if they offer a trade up package for him with the Knicks if they think we might take him.
...and no, I would not take Stein at 5 at that point, but who am to know what Phil is thinking.
...Heck- might take Porzingis anyway at 4, and not do the trade unless it is really sweetened- 2016 #1` with no restrictions.
WaltLongmire wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Cameron Payne looks like he's gonna be a great NBA point guard.How nice would it be to get Payne and Stein? Too bad we can't actually trade down to get Stein because too many teams value him so highly.
I still remain hopeful that something can be worked out, but it looks like the Kings and Magic would snatch up WCS with a quickness if we tried to move down. I don't think it's worth the risk. I want Phil to grab the best help defender in this draft and set this summer up right. He may just be able to make a deal to grab another pick. I'd be ecstatic if he was able to do that and grab Payne too. In any event I do think Phil is determined to get another pick in this draft which would be awesome.
Magic supposedly told Porzingis that they would take him at 12 until he dropped out of the draft.Don't be surprised if they offer a trade up package for him with the Knicks if they think we might take him.
...and no, I would not take Stein at 5 at that point, but who am to know what Phil is thinking.
...Heck- might take Porzingis anyway at 4, and not do the trade unless it is really sweetened- 2016 #1` with no restrictions.
I can imagine that Phil will get some good offers. There's just too much talent at the top of this draft and at #4 you are still in the running for one of the top prospects that will have high value for teams behind us.
Cauley-Stein busting knock on him before Knicks workout
By Marc BermanJune 16, 2015 | 12:36am
Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there.“They were floored,’’ Payne told The Post. “I forwarded the text to Willie. He said, ‘It’s amazing people are shocked I can shoot the ball.’ I told him, ‘You never showed it — only in spurts.’ ”
Concerns about Cauley-Stein’s offense (8.0 ppg, 6.2 rebounds in his Kentucky career) are why the junior will be available at No. 4 when Knicks president Phil Jackson is on the clock at the June 25 draft.
On Tuesday, Cauley-Stein will finally get his workout in Tarrytown in front of Jackson’s Knicks staff. After the Chicago combine in mid-May and before the draft lottery, Cauley-Stein, according to a source, met with the Knicks in New York — an indication of Jackson’s anxiousness. Cauley-Stein had mistakenly said at the combine it would be a pre-lottery workout.
“Skillwise, the sky’s the limit on where I can take it,” Cauley-Stein said at the combine. “I’m athletic enough to do a lot of different things.’’
Much of that is on defense. Known as a modern-day Tyson Chandler, Cauley-Stein anchored Kentucky’s super-team that was stunned in the semifinals of the NCAA Tournament. He’s also 21 — a good age for Jackson’s Knicks, who prefer drafting a big who can contribute immediately alongside Carmelo Anthony. The Knicks don’t have a single traditional big man signed for next season. Payne works specifically with Kentucky’s bigs and has helped advance Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel and Julius Randle into the NBA. But he’s never compared those guys with former Kentucky point guard John Wall.
“Very rarely do you find 7-1 guys with his size and length who can move the way he moves,’’ Payne said. “Not quite at his level, but he’s John Wall-ish at 7-1. That kind of speed and athleticism. When you have a kid like that, the potential is there, talent is there. It’s just getting it where it’s shown.
“Willie can end up being an All-Star.”
Payne believes Cauley-Stein is more of a late-bloomer because, as a wide receiver in Kansas, he was dedicated to his high school football team.“Unlike most top recruits, Willie mostly just started focusing on basketball when he came to Kentucky,’’ Payne said. “He looked funny with a helmet on at 6-10. He was under-the-radar in high school, while [projected No. 1 pick] Karl-Anthony Towns has been great for five years.’’
A cocky Cauley-Stein said in May he goes against buddy Towns in practice and has always felt they were even. His role with the Wildcats just didn’t allow his offense to glow.“He’s played with very good college scorers — not exactly what we needed for him to do was get 15 points every night,’’ Payne said.
Jackson said he wants to improve the interior defense, and an industry source said Knicks scouts were at many Kentucky practices to watch both Towns and Cauley-Stein.“Defending 1 through 5 and with teams switching everything [on pick-and-rolls], he [Cauley-Stein] can totally disrupt a game by guarding a point guard to the 5,’’ Payne said. “He’s got that confidence and swagger about defending.’’
nixluva wrote:WCS comes to town Tuesday! I'm hoping he tears it up and Phil makes up his mind to draft WCS.Cauley-Stein busting knock on him before Knicks workout
By Marc BermanJune 16, 2015 | 12:36am
Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there.“They were floored,’’ Payne told The Post. “I forwarded the text to Willie. He said, ‘It’s amazing people are shocked I can shoot the ball.’ I told him, ‘You never showed it — only in spurts.’ ”
Concerns about Cauley-Stein’s offense (8.0 ppg, 6.2 rebounds in his Kentucky career) are why the junior will be available at No. 4 when Knicks president Phil Jackson is on the clock at the June 25 draft.
On Tuesday, Cauley-Stein will finally get his workout in Tarrytown in front of Jackson’s Knicks staff. After the Chicago combine in mid-May and before the draft lottery, Cauley-Stein, according to a source, met with the Knicks in New York — an indication of Jackson’s anxiousness. Cauley-Stein had mistakenly said at the combine it would be a pre-lottery workout.
“Skillwise, the sky’s the limit on where I can take it,” Cauley-Stein said at the combine. “I’m athletic enough to do a lot of different things.’’
Much of that is on defense. Known as a modern-day Tyson Chandler, Cauley-Stein anchored Kentucky’s super-team that was stunned in the semifinals of the NCAA Tournament. He’s also 21 — a good age for Jackson’s Knicks, who prefer drafting a big who can contribute immediately alongside Carmelo Anthony. The Knicks don’t have a single traditional big man signed for next season. Payne works specifically with Kentucky’s bigs and has helped advance Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel and Julius Randle into the NBA. But he’s never compared those guys with former Kentucky point guard John Wall.
“Very rarely do you find 7-1 guys with his size and length who can move the way he moves,’’ Payne said. “Not quite at his level, but he’s John Wall-ish at 7-1. That kind of speed and athleticism. When you have a kid like that, the potential is there, talent is there. It’s just getting it where it’s shown.
“Willie can end up being an All-Star.”
Payne believes Cauley-Stein is more of a late-bloomer because, as a wide receiver in Kansas, he was dedicated to his high school football team.“Unlike most top recruits, Willie mostly just started focusing on basketball when he came to Kentucky,’’ Payne said. “He looked funny with a helmet on at 6-10. He was under-the-radar in high school, while [projected No. 1 pick] Karl-Anthony Towns has been great for five years.’’
A cocky Cauley-Stein said in May he goes against buddy Towns in practice and has always felt they were even. His role with the Wildcats just didn’t allow his offense to glow.“He’s played with very good college scorers — not exactly what we needed for him to do was get 15 points every night,’’ Payne said.
Jackson said he wants to improve the interior defense, and an industry source said Knicks scouts were at many Kentucky practices to watch both Towns and Cauley-Stein.“Defending 1 through 5 and with teams switching everything [on pick-and-rolls], he [Cauley-Stein] can totally disrupt a game by guarding a point guard to the 5,’’ Payne said. “He’s got that confidence and swagger about defending.’’
Great article. ....im back on steins wagon.....this back and forth stuff is crazy. But hes the best pick for present and future. Hopefully kaminsky doesn't do anything great. ...im tired of flip flopping. But I'll take Stein over Porzingis. Stein might be the only one who cam guard him towns.
Yes his shot is not totally busted, but in a game, a guy with this kind of makeup doesn't have the confidence to look for it, let alone hit it consistently. Go on a 5 for 50 in the nba , your confidence will sag and you'll be restricted to put backs and lobs. And you'll take it and be fine with it. You won't go to the gym and continue to work. You'll say my team needs me to play D or repeat whatever line you're hearing.
And for a team that has got a ton of offense and just wants you to roam and cause havoc, you've got a chance to be a factor.
Right now, the knicks are not that team.
I can remember a series against Toronto when Camby effectively shut down a red hot T mac who had torched Allan and Spree. That's what a mobile 7 footer can do for you. And had nothing but put backs and lobs on the offense.
But that kid had heart.
nixluva wrote:WCS comes to town Tuesday! I'm hoping he tears it up and Phil makes up his mind to draft WCS.Cauley-Stein busting knock on him before Knicks workout
By Marc BermanJune 16, 2015 | 12:36am
Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there.“They were floored,’’ Payne told The Post. “I forwarded the text to Willie. He said, ‘It’s amazing people are shocked I can shoot the ball.’ I told him, ‘You never showed it — only in spurts.’ ”
Concerns about Cauley-Stein’s offense (8.0 ppg, 6.2 rebounds in his Kentucky career) are why the junior will be available at No. 4 when Knicks president Phil Jackson is on the clock at the June 25 draft.
On Tuesday, Cauley-Stein will finally get his workout in Tarrytown in front of Jackson’s Knicks staff. After the Chicago combine in mid-May and before the draft lottery, Cauley-Stein, according to a source, met with the Knicks in New York — an indication of Jackson’s anxiousness. Cauley-Stein had mistakenly said at the combine it would be a pre-lottery workout.
“Skillwise, the sky’s the limit on where I can take it,” Cauley-Stein said at the combine. “I’m athletic enough to do a lot of different things.’’
Much of that is on defense. Known as a modern-day Tyson Chandler, Cauley-Stein anchored Kentucky’s super-team that was stunned in the semifinals of the NCAA Tournament. He’s also 21 — a good age for Jackson’s Knicks, who prefer drafting a big who can contribute immediately alongside Carmelo Anthony. The Knicks don’t have a single traditional big man signed for next season. Payne works specifically with Kentucky’s bigs and has helped advance Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel and Julius Randle into the NBA. But he’s never compared those guys with former Kentucky point guard John Wall.
“Very rarely do you find 7-1 guys with his size and length who can move the way he moves,’’ Payne said. “Not quite at his level, but he’s John Wall-ish at 7-1. That kind of speed and athleticism. When you have a kid like that, the potential is there, talent is there. It’s just getting it where it’s shown.
“Willie can end up being an All-Star.”
Payne believes Cauley-Stein is more of a late-bloomer because, as a wide receiver in Kansas, he was dedicated to his high school football team.“Unlike most top recruits, Willie mostly just started focusing on basketball when he came to Kentucky,’’ Payne said. “He looked funny with a helmet on at 6-10. He was under-the-radar in high school, while [projected No. 1 pick] Karl-Anthony Towns has been great for five years.’’
A cocky Cauley-Stein said in May he goes against buddy Towns in practice and has always felt they were even. His role with the Wildcats just didn’t allow his offense to glow.“He’s played with very good college scorers — not exactly what we needed for him to do was get 15 points every night,’’ Payne said.
Jackson said he wants to improve the interior defense, and an industry source said Knicks scouts were at many Kentucky practices to watch both Towns and Cauley-Stein.“Defending 1 through 5 and with teams switching everything [on pick-and-rolls], he [Cauley-Stein] can totally disrupt a game by guarding a point guard to the 5,’’ Payne said. “He’s got that confidence and swagger about defending.’’
I was coming to this thread to post this same article LOL. It's a good read and makes me not mind picking WCS at #4 even more.
The correlation of Frye-Bynum Stein-Porzingis is there--same thing and I think same result.
BRIGGS wrote:This reminds me a lot of Channing Frye when we drafted him. We bypassed Andrew Bynum. Isiah Thomas felt Channing Frye was the best player in the draft--ah Isiah not close on that one. He was a win now guy who had a few real good workouts--but like Stein came with a stigma of not really playing all that well in the actual game itself. I think there are some guys who can practice better and others who just seem to be gamers.
The correlation of Frye-Bynum Stein-Porzingis is there--same thing and I think same result.
This notion that WCS is Channing Frye is way off base. For one thing even if WCS never developed offensively, his worth on D would still make him a great pick. He was a top College player based solely on his D, which says something about how good he was. WCS was clearly a top defensive player this year. You could highlight bad games but there were a lot of good games too. He's the player this team needs to make a huge leap in terms of how it defends.
In the NBA WCS will have more space and opportunity to operate on offense. We all know he'll have the usual above the rim stuff that a Tyson or DeAndre Jordan has. He also runs the floor like a Gazelle and finishes at a high level. WCS is an excellent offensive rebounder as well. It's clear from watching him that he is behind other players in terms of his offensive development, but he's been putting in the work and clearly looks sharper and more confident. WCS has the agility and coordination to continue to develop his game. He doesn't have to be Dirk or Duncan in order to be very effective offensively.
Look there's a big difference between a player who can't do it and one who just hasn't been doing it long enough to fully develop his skills. WCS didn't start off concentrating on Basketball and so he's behind, but he has the talent to be a good offensive player. That's why he's looking so much better now that he's been able to focus on his offense and get proper training.
nyk4ever wrote:i can not wait til the draft is over and we DONT end up with stein, so i dont have to read nixluvas constant crap about him.
Well we may not end up with WCS. I personally like him and so of course i'm writing about him, which is no different than others who write about Kaminsky or Russell etc. I don't know who Phil is going to end up picking, but I believe WCS is the right player for what this team needs. DEFENSE. We need to have an anchor to this team's D. IMO WCS isn't just a typical defensive big. He's got special ability that would make him perfect for today's NBA. We can't continue to have the worst defense and expect to become a contender.
blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
What I would give to find a way to come out of this draft with WCS and C.Payne......oh my goodness that would be awesome.
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
Thx for posting this. WCS has looked sharp in all his workouts. Despite the erroneous report BRIGGS came up with about his Denver workout. From what I've read he's looked good in every workout. WCS is honing his skills and looking better and better. He's not even going full speed in this workout. He still has upside IMO.
They put him thru some good test....showing his touch around the basket.....mid range jumper......and great hands on those alley opps. Its going to be extremely hard for phil to pass on him.
It sure is. The kid looks smooth with his shot but of course this is a workout and not in a game but the kid has soooooooo much potential. The question that none of us or nobody can answer is how bad he wants it and how great he wants to be.
newyorker4ever wrote:blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
What I would give to find a way to come out of this draft with WCS and C.Payne......oh my goodness that would be awesome.
Oh I can imagine that Phil would also love to be able to make that happen too. That would be an AWESOME draft.
smackeddog wrote:blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
Cameron Payne looks really good too- a shame he won't be working out with us
I'm a big fan of Payne but they still haven't said why he canceled his workout with us but I read yesterday that he hurt his wrist in his workout for Denver so that could be why he canceled our workout and maybe he'll rest it for a couple days and reschedule.
nyk4ever wrote:i can not wait til the draft is over and we DONT end up with stein, so i dont have to read nixluvas constant crap about him.
At least Nix isn't starting new threads every other day to talk about the players he likes like certain others do.
nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:blkexec wrote:jbeachboy wrote:i think its easier to find a cauley stein than a mudiay like pg, you can get a biyombo or a omer asik , mudiay is an exceptional pg with passing , rebounding and quickness skills, just needs to work on his shootingI think its easier to find a Mudiay type because big guards are in.....defensive bigs with a touch like wcs is rare.....especially with a combination of rim protection and pg defense. Im back on the stein wagon after watching his latest video.
What I would give to find a way to come out of this draft with WCS and C.Payne......oh my goodness that would be awesome.
Oh I can imagine that Phil would also love to be able to make that happen too. That would be an AWESOME draft.
yeah i obviously don't see any way of that happening without morgageing our future of draft picks/assets which is a road i don't want us going down again but if Phil could find a way to come out of this draft with WCS and Payne or any two of the projected lottery picks he could drop the mic and go back to LA and Knicks fans would love him forever. Lol