I saw the link to this article on the home page.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/26/derek-fishe...What they are saying is that the owners are considering change the lottery so that all teams in the lottery have an equal chance. My dime store analysis is that that they should have a lottery for the type of style of lottery they use. If it just a matter of adjusting ping pong balls it would eliminate the incentive to totally tank.
JesseDark wrote:I saw the link to this article on the home page. http://nypost.com/2015/05/26/derek-fishe...What they are saying is that the owners are considering change the lottery so that all teams in the lottery have an equal chance. My dime store analysis is that that they should have a lottery for the type of style of lottery they use. If it just a matter of adjusting ping pong balls it would eliminate the incentive to totally tank.
Misleading thread title...no?
So are you saying that the lottery system might be a different one each year?
Strange article, since Berman starts with all the karma BS that has nothing to do with the actual picking of the lottery balls.
Even if you have equal odds for the worst 5 or 6 teams, you might still have teams tanking to get into that "elite" group of losing teams. What is to stop the team at #7 during the year to tank in order to make the bottom 6?
Minny, Philly, and LA were clearly trying to lose at the end of the year, IMO. LA had the most to lose, since they would have lost their pick.
Knicks should have shut Anthony down as soon as it was medically determined that he should have surgery. It was the right thing to do for the franchise, and yes, it would have helped us to lose more games.
So it goes.
I really bristle at the notion that slipping from #2 to #4 has doomed us. That's like saying "if we don't get Towns, OK4 or Russell, our plans are doomed".
Totally ridiculous.
Moonangie wrote:I really bristle at the notion that slipping from #2 to #2 has doomed us. That's like saying "if we don't get Towns, OK4 or Russell, our plans are doomed".Totally ridiculous.
ha. it isn't like saying that. it is saying that exactly.
and while it kinda comes off as ridiculous, its not really, since there's such a fine line to being relevant and being lost. one player can make all the diff.
anrst wrote:Moonangie wrote:I really bristle at the notion that slipping from #2 to #2 has doomed us. That's like saying "if we don't get Towns, OK4 or Russell, our plans are doomed".Totally ridiculous.
ha. it isn't like saying that. it is saying that exactly.
and while it kinda comes off as ridiculous, its not really, since there's such a fine line to being relevant and being lost. one player can make all the diff.
Yes, and I agree with that, but the top four in this draft are all outstanding players. The big drop-off happens after 4.
I cant even read this stuff.. its vomitous. Hell, I bought a telescope and have spent more time on the astronomy forum of late than on UK. I didnt start following a pro team so I could feel venom towards a rookie coach trying to fight through a disaster season with a roster of NBDL players, only to have that coach (whom I like and respect as an individual) dragged over the coals because the team couldnt find a way to throw games (integrity) to keep the "pole position" for the draft, that is the worst record, when that team has one the #1 pick like what? 3 times? Vomitous. I would rather read DK's musings on Melo's work ethic.
Maybe Phil can build something here. Maybe we are cursed with a joke of a franchise so long as this owner is around.... who knows, but I just cant care too much anymore. Hopefully we pick a stud. If we dont? Ill spend time on my patio looking looking at stars at night. This is getting insufferable.
To me, the solution has always been to give each lottery team the same amount of ping pong balls. Just put 14 balls in the machine and draw them out in order. That way teams are rewarded equally for missing the playoffs, and receive no advantage to tank. They will have to try to build a playoff team because there is no real advantage not to. Some teams may feel getting a lottery pick instead of an 8th seed is better, but that will happen with far less teams than the amount trying to tank each year.
fishmike wrote:I cant even read this stuff.. its vomitous. Hell, I bought a telescope and have spent more time on the astronomy forum of late than on UK. I didnt start following a pro team so I could feel venom towards a rookie coach trying to fight through a disaster season with a roster of NBDL players, only to have that coach (whom I like and respect as an individual) dragged over the coals because the team couldnt find a way to throw games (integrity) to keep the "pole position" for the draft, that is the worst record, when that team has one the #1 pick like what? 3 times? Vomitous. I would rather read DK's musings on Melo's work ethic.Maybe Phil can build something here. Maybe we are cursed with a joke of a franchise so long as this owner is around.... who knows, but I just cant care too much anymore. Hopefully we pick a stud. If we dont? Ill spend time on my patio looking looking at stars at night. This is getting insufferable.
Heading to Chile and will visit the Atacoma Desert and perhaps do an astronomy tour. They say the stuff you see is very different.
Years ago we bought a telecsope and had some friends bring the kids. Dads starting drinking and we all strugged at he wonder of the planets. Being drunkish adolesenct dads we said "Don't like Sci fi!!!"
Had to be there.
Look i would be very happy with mudiay or winslow. However i think even fisher knows that it was a mistake winning those games. Hell i remember after the game he admitted fans were probably pissed at him
Yet another article spawned while scanning UK for a story, while we wait for the actual draft...
Knixkik wrote:To me, the solution has always been to give each lottery team the same amount of ping pong balls. Just put 14 balls in the machine and draw them out in order. That way teams are rewarded equally for missing the playoffs, and receive no advantage to tank. They will have to try to build a playoff team because there is no real advantage not to. Some teams may feel getting a lottery pick instead of an 8th seed is better, but that will happen with far less teams than the amount trying to tank each year.
I thought that too but then every team on the brink of the playoffs will lose games to get in the lottery. So that is not a solution. We should throw all the teams in there and let the chips fall where they may. Usually good teams will probably trade their picks at a higher rate. Sometimes adding a franchise player to a good team makes them shuffle their teams.
Knixkik wrote:To me, the solution has always been to give each lottery team the same amount of ping pong balls. Just put 14 balls in the machine and draw them out in order. That way teams are rewarded equally for missing the playoffs, and receive no advantage to tank. They will have to try to build a playoff team because there is no real advantage not to. Some teams may feel getting a lottery pick instead of an 8th seed is better, but that will happen with far less teams than the amount trying to tank each year.
I thought that too but then every team on the brink of the playoffs will lose games to get in the lottery. So that is not a solution. We should throw all the teams in there and let the chips fall where they may. Usually good teams will probably trade their picks at a higher rate. Sometimes adding a franchise player to a good team makes them shuffle their teams.
Vmart wrote:Knixkik wrote:To me, the solution has always been to give each lottery team the same amount of ping pong balls. Just put 14 balls in the machine and draw them out in order. That way teams are rewarded equally for missing the playoffs, and receive no advantage to tank. They will have to try to build a playoff team because there is no real advantage not to. Some teams may feel getting a lottery pick instead of an 8th seed is better, but that will happen with far less teams than the amount trying to tank each year.
I thought that too but then every team on the brink of the playoffs will lose games to get in the lottery. So that is not a solution. We should throw all the teams in there and let the chips fall where they may. Usually good teams will probably trade their picks at a higher rate. Sometimes adding a franchise player to a good team makes them shuffle their teams.
Good teams don't trade their picks at a higher rate than bad teams. Good teams realize the value of having players on cost-controlled contracts and under team control for a minimum of 5 years. Bad teams, like the Knicks, are the ones that give away picks all the time.
Let's put Fisher aside for a moment.
A very real issue for the NBA has become this crazy dependency on the draft. It's a mechanism that simply doesn't work for what it's billed to be which is a franchise rebuilding exercise. Instead what it does is prevent needy teams from simply competing for talent in an open market.
The true effect of the lottery is to keep young talent from earning what the market can afford.
Before the punitive salary cap, an argument could be made that richer NBA teams would simply suck up all the young studs year after year leaving little left for smaller markets. there are no teams that can afford that kind of spending spree anymore without serious fiscal calamity.
But what has happened is that young talent become indentured servants of the teams choosing them. They have no say in the matter at all.
And for the NBA the recognizable and corrosive effect of the draft as its played out is a race to the bottom for teams who have no other choice.
But the NBA will not give it up. The draft has become spectacle - a me-first contest that lures kids out of college because they had a good tournament game. The NBA likes the talent price-fixing and ESPN fills empty time with deodorant and liquor profits.
Given that we're stuck with the beast, the least the NBA can do is make a rule that the top five teams not be able to pick in the top five in two consecutive years. They would simply drop back ten spots if they placed on a consecutive year. A bumped one would drop back to ten, a bumped two to eleven, and so on.
Vmart wrote:Knixkik wrote:To me, the solution has always been to give each lottery team the same amount of ping pong balls. Just put 14 balls in the machine and draw them out in order. That way teams are rewarded equally for missing the playoffs, and receive no advantage to tank. They will have to try to build a playoff team because there is no real advantage not to. Some teams may feel getting a lottery pick instead of an 8th seed is better, but that will happen with far less teams than the amount trying to tank each year.
I thought that too but then every team on the brink of the playoffs will lose games to get in the lottery. So that is not a solution. We should throw all the teams in there and let the chips fall where they may. Usually good teams will probably trade their picks at a higher rate. Sometimes adding a franchise player to a good team makes them shuffle their teams.
Players and coaches don't tank, the front office does. So that won't happen. The real problem is team's front offices tank earlier in the season when they don't think they will make the playoffs because they get better lottery odds for doing so. This is a simple solution to eliminate that. Front offices have really no choice than to just let their team play it out. No advantage to losing. Teams generally want to make the playoffs, even at the expense of a lottery pick. It's good for business. And again, coaches coach hard and players play hard no matter what the record is. If they are on the brink of the playoffs, they could care less about a pick, they will want to make the playoffs.
WaltLongmire wrote:JesseDark wrote:I saw the link to this article on the home page. http://nypost.com/2015/05/26/derek-fishe...What they are saying is that the owners are considering change the lottery so that all teams in the lottery have an equal chance. My dime store analysis is that that they should have a lottery for the type of style of lottery they use. If it just a matter of adjusting ping pong balls it would eliminate the incentive to totally tank.
Misleading thread title...no?So are you saying that the lottery system might be a different one each year?
Strange article, since Berman starts with all the karma BS that has nothing to do with the actual picking of the lottery balls.
Even if you have equal odds for the worst 5 or 6 teams, you might still have teams tanking to get into that "elite" group of losing teams. What is to stop the team at #7 during the year to tank in order to make the bottom 6?
Minny, Philly, and LA were clearly trying to lose at the end of the year, IMO. LA had the most to lose, since they would have lost their pick.
Knicks should have shut Anthony down as soon as it was medically determined that he should have surgery. It was the right thing to do for the franchise, and yes, it would have helped us to lose more games.
So it goes.
Didn't mean to mislead you, I was trying to capture what the article said. What I am suggesting could be considered a different type each year. It all depends what they pull out of the hat on the day of lottery. First they pull for the type of lottery, either all teams equally weighted or the most losses. They then position the ping pong balls accordingly.
IMHO this would decrease the value of the full tank, like Minnesota did.
anrst wrote:Moonangie wrote:I really bristle at the notion that slipping from #2 to #2 has doomed us. That's like saying "if we don't get Towns, OK4 or Russell, our plans are doomed".Totally ridiculous.
ha. it isn't like saying that. it is saying that exactly.
and while it kinda comes off as ridiculous, its not really, since there's such a fine line to being relevant and being lost. one player can make all the diff.
Those three guys are destined to become stars in three years. The next dude who might surprised most is Winslow.
