Knicks · The Case for Stanley Johnson (page 1)

a SF with guard skills, great athleticisim/length/size/versatility
really improved his 3pt shot and great mechanics
a better Wilson Chandler with much more guard skills and versatility

Whether Kelly Obre or Kevin Looney *will need to develop for a couple of years*
One of these players will drop, likely Looney

I like Stanley Johnson. I think he's a guy you'd trade down for though.

Johnson[2] and Turner[1] are the top 2 on my board after Towns, Russell,. and Okafor. Johnson has size although he did measure below what was expected. I see him as a Ron Artest/Draymond Green type although he lacks Green's length but his explosiveness could make up for that though similar to how Butler makes up for his lack of length.

I want the knicks to trade back and get a player just as good or better than they would at 4.

crzymdups wrote:I like Stanley Johnson. I think he's a guy you'd trade down for though.

I guess my problem is everyone outside the top 3 is a guy I would trade down for.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Stanley Johnson. I think he's a guy you'd trade down for though.

I guess my problem is everyone outside the top 3 is a guy I would trade down for.

The problem is the rest of the league likely feels pretty much the same way.

Yeah, he isn't a player to draft at 4

With players like Millsap, Tristan Thompson, Greg Monroe, LA, Marc Gasol, Draymond Green, Reggie Jackson, Brook Lopez, etc.... all looking for MAX contracts
We simply will need to rebuild this roster from the bottom up, first by trading CA
Then if Philly is willing to pay a premium for both Mudiay and Russell to go with their young talent of young STARS, with the cap space to still sign 2 MAX FA's and more in 2017, making them contenders if they can do so and if their young talents reach their ceilings

Philly has over 20 draft picks in the next couple years alone, so they have the ability to overpay for talents if they wish to do so
Say what you want but Hinkie has done a great job in terms of collecting assets and preserving cap space that will allow to to possibly build a dynasty
They simply cannot utilize all of those draft picks with limited roster spots
Prior to the draft order, they were very high on Mudiay and with Russell and the Mudiay combo, they just might be willing to pay a premium to do so

So in addition to the moves above, we can also take on the salaries of David Lee, Gereld Wallace, etc, for draft picks that we could use and possibly move up to get the players I listed
With Clippers and SA, they could have interest in some of our players, especially with Clippers which if they resign Jordan, still needs a backup PG, SG, and SF, and with Jamal Crawford's team option unguaranteed salary along with Net's 2nd rounder in 2016, we could work something out

I also believe there will be another Amnesty in the work in 2017 negatations as it benefits owners and players to possibly earning more money
With all the talents in 2017 and players possibly doing a 1 and 1 (player option) I expect a lot of players doing what Lebron, Wade, and Bosh did in 2010
We need to put ourselves in position to being able to sign 3 ALL STARs with some youth development as well

With Shved, Tim Hardaway, Early and whoever, they could be players just like Iman and JR Smith, Pablo, etc, that could help a contending team improve, while we would be collecting assets just as Philly has done

If all goes well, we could be contenders as early as 2017, while better spending CA's contract

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Stanley Johnson. I think he's a guy you'd trade down for though.

I guess my problem is everyone outside the top 3 is a guy I would trade down for.

The problem is the rest of the league likely feels pretty much the same way.

true but every team need is different and may see the need to make a jump

watching the2nd video posted I don't think THJr would've made it if he was Stanley's mom son. I don't think he could handle her training

He was 4th or 5th in most mocks all season, what caused him to fall?

smackeddog wrote:He was 4th or 5th in most mocks all season, what caused him to fall?

A poor second half of the season in conference play where his shooting went down. Basically, the opposite of Justice Winslow but I would still go with Johnson over Justice.

I think Johnson would have had as much success playing the 4 with Okafor.

smackeddog wrote:He was 4th or 5th in most mocks all season, what caused him to fall?

he wasn't impressive at all in the tourney... was a bit inefficient... and unfortunately for Stanley guys coming from Arizona haven't quite lived up to the hype in recent years

Give me Winslow please

smackeddog wrote:He was 4th or 5th in most mocks all season, what caused him to fall?

Not sure he finished too well. Winslow blew by him on draft boards for one simple reason...he played well when it counted.

Dekker outscored him 27-6 in the Elite Eight. Nigel Hayes, their other forward, also outscored him with 8. And oh, that guy so many overlook, Kaminsky, had 29 pts that game.

In the tournament he shot 1/12 vs OSU, 4/10 vs Xavier, and against a Texas Southern team with a starting front averaging a little more than 6'6" he scored 22.

I saw Johnson against UCLA (shot 1/9, not a good start for the first time he was seen by someone) and one or 2 other games. I know some like him, but I saw nothing special about him. He never took control of the game, and was not dominant in any one aspect. Wonder how he will do against size- worst shooting game of the year, 3/19 vs Utah, who has Poetl at center. I can only go by what I saw in the games I watched him play in.

Turner and Johnson were both guys whose value seemed to decrease as they played into the season. As young players you expect to see some progress and growth as the year goes on. Not sure they showed significant growth in their respective games.

At some point folks have to look at how guys actually play on the court. Wonder how he defends at the 3 at 6'5" (w/o shoes) and 240 lbs in the NBA? Not sure he has a classic post-up game to utilize his girth and strength. For me he is a 9-12 pick, but once again you never know how he's worked on his game since the dismal end of his season.

Like Turner, I thought he should have stayed in school for another year. He probably loses some money by coming out this year.

One thing I did not like is that he did not finish at the basket to well. It was down right awful for someone of his athleticism.

yellowboy90 wrote:One thing I did not like is that he did not finish at the basket to well. It was down right awful for someone of his athleticism.

That and his really awful decision making. He has some elements of JR Smith in there.

yellowboy90 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:He was 4th or 5th in most mocks all season, what caused him to fall?

A poor second half of the season in conference play where his shooting went down. Basically, the opposite of Justice Winslow but I would still go with Johnson over Justice.

I think Johnson would have had as much success playing the 4 with Okafor.

Agree. The poor finish in the tournament probably hurt him. If you look at him, he has the physical tools to develop into a star--the superior strength, burst-- he's already a solid three and D player.

yellowboy90 wrote:Johnson[2] and Turner[1] are the top 2 on my board after Towns, Russell,. and Okafor. Johnson has size although he did measure below what was expected. I see him as a Ron Artest/Draymond Green type although he lacks Green's length but his explosiveness could make up for that though similar to how Butler makes up for his lack of length.

I want the knicks to trade back and get a player just as good or better than they would at 4.

A Johnson/Stephenson back court could be interesting.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Stanley Johnson. I think he's a guy you'd trade down for though.

I guess my problem is everyone outside the top 3 is a guy I would trade down for.

Exactly...thats why picking at 4 is almost a better way of getting two potential stars for the price of 1...Assuming the teams we trade with is willing to give up two picks.

Everybody below 4 are looking at this draft as a top 4 draft.....So that 4th spot is more valuable to teams looking for that 1 missing piece. We are looking for multiple missing pieces.

Here are the next tier of players, with Porzingis and Hezonja pushing down players like Johnson, Kaminsky (who's outside the top 14 http://www.nbadraft.net/), Payne, etc...

Mudiay (4)
Winslow (5)
WCS (9)
Stanley Johnson (11)
Myles Turner (13)
Payne (14)
Kaminsky (15)
Grant (18)

All these guys have similar star potential. Some of us have favorites, but in reality, they are all very close in value. Since this next tier starts at 4, see who's willing to bite and give up multiple picks to move up. I think Phil mostlikely have multiple trade options on the table. Just depends on how the top 3 play out.