Knicks · some cap math (page 1)

2015-16 Cap is set at $67.1 mm

we have the following under contract next season:
Carmelo Anthony - $22,875,00
Jose Calderon - $7,402,812
Tim Hardaway Jr - $1,304,520
Cleanthony Early - $845,509
Langston Galloway - $845,509

a)That's a total of $33,273,350. That's assuming we keep Calderon and Galloway for the full season... There is a possibility that we stretch Calderon but he might be useful in potential trades to make the math work... we'll talk about Shved later...

b)The #4 pick.. assuming we keep it... will commmand $3,443,100 for the 15-16 season... that now brings us down to $29,830,250.

Assuming we make no deals draft day.. which isn't a safe assumption but let's make it anyway.... We have 6 players and 6 more roster spots to fill during free agency...

c)the minimum salary is $525,093 so we have to have a cap hold on each roster spot for at least that much... let's assume we sign only two to the bare minimum salary deals... this is pure conjecture.. it could be less but could be more but it's a conservative estimate... that leaves us with $28,780,064 for 4 roster spots...

d)We don't know what we're doing with Alexey Shved yet.. but let's say we don't renounce him but keep him restricted... his hold would be $6,200,000....

That leaves us with roughly $22,580,064 more or less...

e)Now we have 4 roster spots with this money theoretically.... let's assume we sign Greg Monroe or Tobias Harris or other FA's in their tier that command the max... they would command ~$15.8mm...

we're now left with approximately $6,780,064 for 3 players.... it would be less if we sign Lamarcus Aldridge or Marc Gasol....

I guess what this means is tha I don't think we're going to sign someone like Danny green or Demarre Carroll since they will command above what we can offer... It's more likely that we spread that $12mm or so around for the 3 players... like a $6mm/4mm/2mm split... getting Aldrich back for the mininum or close to it would be a huge start since he's pretty good on low minutes...

So in short:

Cap room w/Jose Calderon and keeping Shved's cap hold:
$28,780,064

Cap room stretching Calderon and keeping Shved's cap hold:
$31,802,312

Nice breakdown. Do you know what Exceptions the Knicks would qualify for?

exceptions are only for teams over the cap... we're under so we don't qualify for any of them...

we do have trade exceptions which will come in handy for any trades...

FistOfOakley wrote:exceptions are only for teams over the cap... we're under so we don't qualify for any of them...

we do have trade exceptions which will come in handy for any trades...

ROOM MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only to teams that drop far enough below the cap to use cap room, and lose their Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level and Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions (see question number 26). This exception cannot be used if the team has already used the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions. This exception becomes available once the team salary drops far enough that the team loses its other exceptions, and expires following the last day of the regular season.

This exception allows a team to sign any free agent, starting at up to the following amounts:
Season First-year salary
2011-12 $2.500 million
2012-13 $2.575 million
2013-14 $2.652 million
2014-15 $2.732 million
2015-16 $2.814 million
2016-17 $2.898 million
2017-18 $2.985 million
2018-19 $3.075 million
2019-20 $3.167 million
2020-21 $3.262 million

This exception may be split and given to multiple players. It may be used for contracts up to two years in length, with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract. Signing a player to a multi-year contract does not affect a team's ability to use this exception every year -- for example, a team can use this exception to sign a player to a two-year contract, and use it again the following year to sign another player. Also see question number 26 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

Once a team has used this exception, it can no longer use the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level or Taxpayer Mid-Level exception

Also, I think but I'm not sure but shved's hold might be higher than your listed number.

oh i forgot the about the room exception...

and you're right about shved also.. it is 6.2mm... i'll change it..

FistOfOakley wrote:2015-16 Cap is set at $67.1 mm

we have the following under contract next season:
Carmelo Anthony - $22,875,00
Jose Calderon - $7,402,812
Tim Hardaway Jr - $1,304,520
Cleanthony Early - $845,509
Langston Galloway - $845,509

a)That's a total of $33,273,350. That's assuming we keep Calderon and Galloway for the full season... There is a possibility that we stretch Calderon but he might be useful in potential trades to make the math work... we'll talk about Shved later...

b)The #4 pick.. assuming we keep it... will commmand $3,443,100 for the 15-16 season... that now brings us down to $29,830,250.

Assuming we make no deals draft day.. which isn't a safe assumption but let's make it anyway.... We have 6 players and 6 more roster spots to fill during free agency...

c)the minimum salary is $525,093 so we have to have a cap hold on each roster spot for at least that much... let's assume we sign only two to the bare minimum salary deals... this is pure conjecture.. it could be less but could be more but it's a conservative estimate... that leaves us with $28,780,064 for 4 roster spots...

d)We don't know what we're doing with Alexey Shved yet.. but let's say we don't renounce him but keep him restricted... his hold would be $4,102,570....

That leaves us with roughly $24,677,494 more or less...

e)Now we have 4 roster spots with this money theoretically.... let's assume we sign Greg Monroe or Tobias Harris or other FA's in their tier that command the max... they would command ~$15.8mm...

we're now left with $11,899,741 for 3 players or $10,849,555 for 1 player and 2 min salary players... it would be less if we sign Lamarcus Aldridge or Marc Gasol....

I guess what this means is tha I don't think we're going to sign someone like Danny green or Demarre Carroll since they might just command just above what we can offer... It's more likely that we spread that $12mm or so around for the 3 players... like a $6mm/4mm/2mm split... getting Aldrich back for the mininum or close to it would be a huge start since he's pretty good on low minutes...

anyway... just thought it might be helpful for anyone looking at what we can do this summer...

um this is what ive been trying to say...we dont have alot of money or assets to make a major deal. get monroe and sign young cheap backup role players

It seems to me that the Knicks should be able to make this work. It'll be tight but i'm guessing they can get it done.

1.  Carmelo Anthony      - $22,875,000
2.  Greg Monroe          - $15,800,000
3.  Danny Green          - $12,000,000
4.  Jose Calderon        - $7,402,812
5.  #4 Draft Pick        - $3,443,000
6.  Alexey Shved         - $2,854,940  (Room Exception)
7.  Tim Hardaway Jr      - $1,304,520
8.  Cleanthony Early     - $845,509
9.  Langston Galloway    - $845,509   
                           $65,305,911

10. Lance Thomas
11. Thanasis Antetokounmpo
12. Lou Amundson
13. Ricky Ledo

Anyone know when the Knicks will actually get their MLE and Bi Annual once they're over the cap? When does it actually get applied

nixluva wrote:It seems to me that the Knicks should be able to make this work. It'll be tight but i'm guessing they can get it done.

1.  Carmelo Anthony      - $22,875,000
2.  Greg Monroe          - $15,800,000
3.  Danny Green          - $12,000,000
4.  Jose Calderon        - $7,402,812
5.  #4 Draft Pick        - $3,443,000
6.  Alexey Shved         - $2,854,940  (Room Exception)
7.  Tim Hardaway Jr      - $1,304,520
8.  Cleanthony Early     - $845,509
9.  Langston Galloway    - $845,509   
                           $65,305,911

10. Lance Thomas
11. Thanasis Antetokounmpo
12. Lou Amundson
13. Ricky Ledo

Anyone know when the Knicks will actually get their MLE and Bi Annual once they're over the cap? When does it actually get applied

This is 30-35 win team and no light in the end of the tunnel until Melo contract expires.
Not sure why Dolan paid Zen so much money for this path...
It is so boring that no GM required...

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:It seems to me that the Knicks should be able to make this work. It'll be tight but i'm guessing they can get it done.

1.  Carmelo Anthony      - $22,875,000
2.  Greg Monroe          - $15,800,000
3.  Danny Green          - $12,000,000
4.  Jose Calderon        - $7,402,812
5.  #4 Draft Pick        - $3,443,000
6.  Alexey Shved         - $2,854,940  (Room Exception)
7.  Tim Hardaway Jr      - $1,304,520
8.  Cleanthony Early     - $845,509
9.  Langston Galloway    - $845,509   
                           $65,305,911

10. Lance Thomas
11. Thanasis Antetokounmpo
12. Lou Amundson
13. Ricky Ledo

Anyone know when the Knicks will actually get their MLE and Bi Annual once they're over the cap? When does it actually get applied

This is 30-35 win team and no light in the end of the tunnel until Melo contract expires.
Not sure why Dolan paid Zen so much money for this path...
It is so boring that no GM required...

1st of all this is just an example of how you could work the cap if we paid top dollar for 2 Free Agents. If Phil could convince both players to take just a little bit less in year one you could fit another player in the cap which is gonna be around $67 mil. I only listed 9 signed players and I didn't even add in who we got in the draft and you already assume this team couldn't have a winning record. I didn't even complete the roster. We could also add in a big like Kosta Koufos or Alexis Ajinca. There are lots of other possibilities to round out the roster. I don't think it would only be a 30=35 win team once fully fleshed out.

Let's see how you build a team with actual cap numbers.

i think what's you're proposing is plausible ... if we stretch calderon... but i doubt Shved gets just the room exception... he could command closer to 5mm...

i do think the best course of action is to split the leftover money after the max contract signing with 3 lesser players... because a bench of hardaway, early, thomas, amundson and ledo is exceedingly weak...

FistOfOakley wrote:oh i forgot the about the room exception...

and you're right about shved also.. it is 6.2mm... i'll change it..

I really wouldn't worry about Shved cap hold because it is probably a non-issue. If they get their 2or3 FAs i'm pretty sure they'll cut bait with Shved. I really hope the knicks push for Shved signing for the room exception with an opt out, that way he gets his money next year. Another option would be to pay him slightly more like mmle type money and use the room exception on someone else.

Is there any way to backload contracts? I still don't understand how those poison pill contracts worked for Houston. I would think a lot of teams would use that tactic more often.

The more I think about the cap and read all the draft rumors it make me think more and more that the knicks will likely move back in the draft to create more Cap room and shed Calderon salary. Tbe kings/Denver/Ny trade is my fav idea but Boston maybe an option too. The only problem I have with that is the base value for moving up in the lotto pick is a swap of lotto picks, another 1st, and a second unless there are star players involved. Boston lacks players and lotto picks so for them to move up it would take their 2 1st this year, bkl non-protected 2016 1st, and probably another 1st(bkl 2018). It takes 4 1st because the knicks are giving up a top 5 lotto pick without the assurance of getting a lotto pick back. The bkl pick could be if they have a bad year but even then its not for certain that the knicks would come away with someone good. It would be nice if Ben Simmons (LSU), 6'10 point forward, would fall into the knicks lap but most thought Ok4/Towns would be a knick.

Stein isn't worth that to me but Boston could take that risk.

Oh, I see, you all ignore this masterpiece of a thread:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

But you post in this one?!?!

We seem to have focused on signing 2 FAs, but remember Phil sail we may go for 3, so I guess that would be one max and then two 3rd tier players. Which 3rd tier players do you like?

Mine are:

Ed Davis
Brandan Wright
Beverley

smackeddog wrote:We seem to have focused on signing 2 FAs, but remember Phil sail we may go for 3, so I guess that would be one max and then two 3rd tier players. Which 3rd tier players do you like?

Mine are:

Ed Davis
Brandan Wright
Beverley

Beverly has really grown on me. He reminds me of a young Kyle Lowry which is odd both being Houston. I know he's a not a prototypical triangle pg though.

ive always like beverly and his on ball defense. hes not much of a facilitator but he hits shots. the problem is hes injury prone cuz he plays with reckless abandon

ed davis already said he wants to be a laker

Good post. If we 'won' the draft and added Okafor... And signed Carroll and Millsap away from the Hawks... Finally, Shved takes the Room exception.

Shved
Carroll
Melo
Millsap
Okafor

I would play with this team. Or swap Carroll out for Green.

Knicks could convince free agents to sign contracts with opt outs so they could sign another bigger contract but take less in year one so they can sign another player. I think that is a realistic approach given the Cap is due to increase.

lol smack.. didn't even see your post... it looks a little better than mine actually...

FistOfOakley wrote:exceptions are only for teams over the cap... we're under so we don't qualify for any of them...

we do have trade exceptions which will come in handy for any trades...

I don't think phil is maxing out any FA, he is going to try and convince them to take less so he can build more, which won't fly with any marquee FA.

Had he never shipped jr or shump, he would have a had the ability to do S&T with shump, and would have had some value in JR to possible trade up or down in the draft and possible got a decent role player to fill the spot.

Now he's going to go out and find one yr players and try to convince them that it's a better option considering the cap increase the for next off season.

That would place another set of players on the roster that have no future on the knicks and still drill them with the triangle system.

Round and Round we go