Regardless, when his playing career is over, i think he is top 5. A championship will cement it for sure. However, the ding or criticim will be loud and boistrous especially from the Jordan fanatics. They take any compliment to Lebron as an insult to Jordan. I think Jordan is the best, but geez, it seems his myth grows each year he is away from the game.
Other than Jordan, Lebron is the most gifted basketball player i ever saw.
but if Lebron does it with this team, its gotta say something. Jordan did it with 2 other top fifties and arguably the best coach of all time.
is GS not better than Malone / Stockton Utah?
probably not but even if yes, that utah team pushed the bulls hard and that bull team was freakin loaded.
Uptown wrote:Regardless, when his playing career is over, i think he is top 5. A championship will cement it for sure. However, the ding or criticim will be loud and boistrous especially from the Jordan fanatics. They take any compliment to Lebron as an insult to Jordan. I think Jordan is the best, but geez, it seems his myth grows each year he is away from the game.Other than Jordan, Lebron is the most gifted basketball player i ever saw.
I agree. I was only able to see Jordan live once in a preseason game. He hit a half court buzzer beater at the end of the second quarter. The guy was pretty amazing.
If he does that he's top 5, I mean with his accolades he's surely almost already passed Bird and Magic in terms of longevity.
mreinman wrote:but if Lebron does it with this team, its gotta say something. Jordan did it with 2 other top fifties and arguably the best coach of all time.is GS not better than Malone / Stockton Utah?
probably not but even if yes, that utah team pushed the bulls hard and that bull team was freakin loaded.
Statistically just looking at the Warriors league ranks relative to the league damn near ranked best offense and defense, stats like SRS which rivals some of the G.O.A.T. teams like '96 Bulls, '72 Lakers, '71 Bucks, '86 Celtics, etc., the way they've breezed through the
West in the playoffs, their ability to play at home, their depth, I'd also take Steph over Stockton. This team is better than any team Jordan ever faced in the Finals.
Top 10. LeBron is simply the best in his era. When a player does that then he is an all time player. There so many of these type of players that come along. The Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Bill Russell. This is LeBron's time he is the best individual player in the game.
Wilt has 2.
The logo has 1.
They are on Rushmore with Kareem, Jordan, and Russell.
Start the steam shovel and chisel, Lebron belongs there too.
I would say about even with Melo
#2 behind jordan all time. No question about it. What he is doing is just amazing.
tough to measure guys vs. history. All you can really do is measure them against their peers. I personally have a strong dislike for Lebron, but he's heads above ANY of his peers and is every year. I have no problem with Curry winning MVP, he and the Warriors are having a pefect season, but nobody can debate Lebron is the best and has been for some time. He doesnt have MJ's killer instinct. Maybe nobody does... but Lebron is top 10 of all time for sure.
After Heat lost to Dallas Lebron changed.
He won my respect from what he does on the court and off it he shut down the obnoxious public persona.
The Decison, the Pep Rally and then the Dallas disrespect all were awful.
I think he has eclipsed Kobe but how do you eclipse the perfection that was Jordan? YOu can't.
He might be a better player than Jordan but thats debatable many times over. Lebron in my mind has gone past Bird, Magic and Kobe.
Timmy Duncan did/does not have that "it" factor but at the same time should get more props with is gaudy ring collection. Maybe the big guys don't get the star treatment.
Kareem, Duncan, Russell all MVPs and all big time!
Rushmore?
Duncan, Kareem, wilt, Logo, Lebron, Jordan
Nalod wrote:After Heat lost to Dallas Lebron changed.
He won my respect from what he does on the court and off it he shut down the obnoxious public persona.The Decison, the Pep Rally and then the Dallas disrespect all were awful.
I think he has eclipsed Kobe but how do you eclipse the perfection that was Jordan? YOu can't.
He might be a better player than Jordan but thats debatable many times over. Lebron in my mind has gone past Bird, Magic and Kobe.
Timmy Duncan did/does not have that "it" factor but at the same time should get more props with is gaudy ring collection. Maybe the big guys don't get the star treatment.
Kareem, Duncan, Russell all MVPs and all big time!
Rushmore?
Duncan, Kareem, wilt, Logo, Lebron, Jordan
Shaq?
He is in my top 3.
I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.
I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
that's true - but the East has been epically bad for the past... what... 15 years? Basically Bron's whole career the East has been a joke and the 7th and 8th seeds in the playoffs in the East have been under .500, whereas in the West the 7th/8th seed win 48-50 games. Teams built in the East seem to be built for the short run, no continuity, so even when a great team is assembled, like the Celtics in 08 or Magic in 09, they're only together for a few years.
I think it's fair to wonder if Lebron would have gotten to the Finals this year (or last year) if he played in the West. Look at that first round series between the Clippers and Spurs - that's the FIRST ROUND in the West and the basketball there feels like it was higher level than what we are seeing in the Finals.
Lebron is a great player - but if you are going to talk about dragging a subpar team to the Finals, you have to talk about his road to the Finals which was a young Boston team no one thought would make the playoffs, a wounded Bulls team that was tearing itself apart from the inside, a Hawks team that was completely wounded and injured and banged up.
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
that's true - but the East has been epically bad for the past... what... 15 years? Basically Bron's whole career the East has been a joke and the 7th and 8th seeds in the playoffs in the East have been under .500, whereas in the West the 7th/8th seed win 48-50 games. Teams built in the East seem to be built for the short run, no continuity, so even when a great team is assembled, like the Celtics in 08 or Magic in 09, they're only together for a few years.
I think it's fair to wonder if Lebron would have gotten to the Finals this year (or last year) if he played in the West. Look at that first round series between the Clippers and Spurs - that's the FIRST ROUND in the West and the basketball there feels like it was higher level than what we are seeing in the Finals.
Lebron is a great player - but if you are going to talk about dragging a subpar team to the Finals, you have to talk about his road to the Finals which was a young Boston team no one thought would make the playoffs, a wounded Bulls team that was tearing itself apart from the inside, a Hawks team that was completely wounded and injured and banged up.
very fair take, however, if he beats GS then he has done something that nobody has done. Not even close.
mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
that's true - but the East has been epically bad for the past... what... 15 years? Basically Bron's whole career the East has been a joke and the 7th and 8th seeds in the playoffs in the East have been under .500, whereas in the West the 7th/8th seed win 48-50 games. Teams built in the East seem to be built for the short run, no continuity, so even when a great team is assembled, like the Celtics in 08 or Magic in 09, they're only together for a few years.
I think it's fair to wonder if Lebron would have gotten to the Finals this year (or last year) if he played in the West. Look at that first round series between the Clippers and Spurs - that's the FIRST ROUND in the West and the basketball there feels like it was higher level than what we are seeing in the Finals.
Lebron is a great player - but if you are going to talk about dragging a subpar team to the Finals, you have to talk about his road to the Finals which was a young Boston team no one thought would make the playoffs, a wounded Bulls team that was tearing itself apart from the inside, a Hawks team that was completely wounded and injured and banged up.
very fair take, however, if he beats GS then he has done something that nobody has done. Not even close.
Agreed. I think it'll be interesting to see where Bron goes, game wise, in his 30s. He's at the second leg of his career soon. Guys like Kobe and Jordan embraced a less athletic attack and worked out of the post more. I wonder if Bron will do that. It'll be interesting to watch.
Side question - I wonder if Bron wishes he hadn't pushed for that Love for Wiggins trade right now. Next five years, who is a better player? Wiggins could have been the Pippen for Bron and Kyrie. You get the feeling Love will leave this summer or next summer.
I voted Top 10 just to hedge my bets. There was so much basketball played before I started watching. You go to the Hall and see how big of a deal George Mikan was, but I doubt many of us are going back before '65 in our minds. But 5 consecutive finals appearances... I can't hate on this guy at all, he's incredible.
Many of Jordan's great shots I watched live on TV I never saw because my eyes would close with the ball mid-air... I knew they would fall and kill my team and couldn't bare it! I like Golden State and it's like the spirit of their 90s NBA Jam Run TMC team reborn with the Splash Brothers... but I hope LeBron just goes Super Saiyan and take this chip.
mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd and Dwight Howard..
crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
that's true - but the East has been epically bad for the past... what... 15 years? Basically Bron's whole career the East has been a joke and the 7th and 8th seeds in the playoffs in the East have been under .500, whereas in the West the 7th/8th seed win 48-50 games. Teams built in the East seem to be built for the short run, no continuity, so even when a great team is assembled, like the Celtics in 08 or Magic in 09, they're only together for a few years.
I think it's fair to wonder if Lebron would have gotten to the Finals this year (or last year) if he played in the West. Look at that first round series between the Clippers and Spurs - that's the FIRST ROUND in the West and the basketball there feels like it was higher level than what we are seeing in the Finals.
Lebron is a great player - but if you are going to talk about dragging a subpar team to the Finals, you have to talk about his road to the Finals which was a young Boston team no one thought would make the playoffs, a wounded Bulls team that was tearing itself apart from the inside, a Hawks team that was completely wounded and injured and banged up.
very fair take, however, if he beats GS then he has done something that nobody has done. Not even close.
Agreed. I think it'll be interesting to see where Bron goes, game wise, in his 30s. He's at the second leg of his career soon. Guys like Kobe and Jordan embraced a less athletic attack and worked out of the post more. I wonder if Bron will do that. It'll be interesting to watch.
Side question - I wonder if Bron wishes he hadn't pushed for that Love for Wiggins trade right now. Next five years, who is a better player? Wiggins could have been the Pippen for Bron and Kyrie. You get the feeling Love will leave this summer or next summer.
I think that Lebron needs Love more than Wiggins just like he needs Love more than Kyrie.
Love had a very good year but Lebron could have done better with him and if he stays, I am sure that we will see that.
Bron has already added a very good post game in the last couple of years ... he is primed to move into the next phase.
Lebron is at the age where Jordan just started winning (crazy!).
Lebron also has a much better body for a prolonged career than Jordan did since he was much smaller and quickness was paramount.
Lebron can finish off his career as a prototypical PF if he chooses.
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:crzymdups wrote:I wouldn't bother ranking Lebron until his career is done - but in his own era, it's hard to argue he was better than Duncan or Kobe - all three guys have two rings a piece in the past 8 years and Duncan and Kobe were older and on their second or third leg of their careers in those eight years, having each won three rings before that.I can't rank Bron over Duncan or Kobe from his own era.
He deserves a full career and I think he'll certainly be an all-time top ten player when he's done. He might crack the top five by the time he's done, but I don't think he has yet.
if wins this year, top 5 is sealed.
nobody has won with a crappy team. This guy has already been to the finals with the bottom of the barrel teams.
who else has done that?
Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd and Dwight Howard..
true ...
he needs to win it to stand apart
