Knicks · Robert Horry: Derek Fisher wasn't ready to coach Knicks (page 1)
He's in fact critical of The Knicks including Zen.
Derek Fisher went straight from the court to the bench without any time in between. Almost immediately upon retiring from the NBA as a player, he became a head coach.
There was no time to study. No time to learn. Phil Jackson just threw him in the deep end, watched his arms flailing as he tried to stay above water, and said in the calmest, most zen way possible: "Swim, Derek. Swim with all your heart."
But Fisher's former teammate -- and Jackson's former player with the Lakers -- Robert Horry says that wasn't enough. Horry offered some comments this week that were critical of Fish.
Steven J. Gaither of the Sporting News has more, based on Horry's appearance on the Boomer & Carton Show on WFAN on Monday:
On Monday, Horry told the Boomer & Carton Show on WFAN it was just too soon for Fisher to take over a team. The two played together for seven years with the Lakers, winning three championships as role players on the Shaquille O'Neal-Kobe Bryant teams of the early 2000s.“If I played basketball and you played with me, and all of a sudden you become my head coach, there isn’t anything you can tell me, dude,” Horry said. “Because your years in the league were just as long as mine. Why are you coaching me? That’s one of the things that I hate."
The Knicks finished 17-65 in Fisher's first season, the worst in team history.
"I love Derek to death," Horry said. "Why bring him in to coach a team with people that he played against and played with? You can’t tell me anything.”
Fisher and Horry were teammates with the Lakers from 1996 to 2003.
I think sometimes people forget that Phil had the creator of the triangle (tex winters) right by his side 24/7.
I just don't understand how phil can hire fish and just have phone conversations with him for the most part. I really expected phil to be right there with fish every step of the way, especially in his first season as a coach. it's just real shady how phil set fisher up for utter failure
Maybe the best way is to get thrown into the fire. Jason Kidd got off to a rocky start. Dude is becoming a fine coach.
What we don't know is how others would have faired better? He did have Cleamons and Rambis by his side. Two guys with a lot of experience.
Kerr had a lot of years between retiring and being oh the bench with some Gm experience too and he is in the finals. They also surrounded him with experienced guys.
I think the quality of his roster has more to do with it.
If you were expecting more than a bad season, then you were wrong. Forget media hype and him or anyone employed by MSG saying the team would be good. Look at the roster and decide for yourself.
So what now? fire the guy or now he has a year under his belt he is better for it? Is blame even relevant?
He got some reps in last season and now when he has some actual talent he'll have some experience to fall back on.
Also, Robert Horry should shut the hell up. Yes, he played against Fisher but he's been retired for eight years.
Nalod wrote:You don't understand, and that does not make it wrong.
Maybe the best way is to get thrown into the fire. Jason Kidd got off to a rocky start. Dude is becoming a fine coach.
What we don't know is how others would have faired better? He did have Cleamons and Rambis by his side. Two guys with a lot of experience.
Kerr had a lot of years between retiring and being oh the bench with some Gm experience too and he is in the finals. They also surrounded him with experienced guys.
I think the quality of his roster has more to do with it.If you were expecting more than a bad season, then you were wrong. Forget media hype and him or anyone employed by MSG saying the team would be good. Look at the roster and decide for yourself.
So what now? fire the guy or now he has a year under his belt he is better for it? Is blame even relevant?
Kerr inherited a very good team that I think had injuries during last year's playoffs.
Everybody's always talking about this being a player's league, and for the most part it is. Fisher would have done quite well in Kerr's shoes, given the lineup he inherited.
Kerr's ability as a coach is worthy of its own thread, IMO.
I think Gentry and Curry have as much or more to do with the offense than Kerr. Heard early on that Curry was the director on offense, but I would say he hasn't been as blatant as Lebron about tooting his horn.
Three games and counting and Kerr & Co. have not found a way to deal with Cleveland's defense, or come up with the best way to minimize James.
Cleveland's going kamikaze against Curry and Thompson, and now we see that GS has no post-up strategy to provide a scoring alternative on the inside. Bogut might have been the answer 6 years ago, but his legs are shot, and you don't have worry about doubling him. Add this to the fact that Green and Barnes have been exposed as decent role players,nothing more, and GS is in trouble.
Things could change, of course, and the Cavs might just wear down, but Kerr has not shown any special brilliance as a coach in this series so far.
To discredit phil because he had Tex Winter is eveident of a bias against him and take a shot at him when ever.
The man has 11 rings and walks on water. Yes, he does. He was smart enough to employ Tex Winter is not a knock on him.
He also had Jim cleamons with him who now is baby sitting Fisher.
My take is Phil didn't hire Fish because he is a great coach, its because he thinks he will be.
Gretzky was asked about what sets him apart from others and it was his ability to know where the puck was going. Its obvoius where its been.
For those who slam Phil are looking for instant gradification and prefer to elevate themselves in the "See I told you!!" Fact is anytime a new regime takes over it faces obsticles and an uphill battle which takes time.
For all we know, Phil won't be here employed to see the fruit of his efforts but perhaps his successor and culture takes hold for a long long time.
I don't get why anyone would root against him or make a point to call out his mistakes as if they are the only thing he has done. Phil and the knicks are trying to turn it around and the move to hire him is a step in that direction.
We can only hope Dolan does not polute his efforts.
Will it work? Lets give it few years and then look back. Season won yielded 17 wins. the Result spoke for itself.
GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.
Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.
Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.
I agree with Bonn, you guys act like the season started in feb when melo decided to hang it up, and the roster was dismantle little after that. He started the season 5-30 with a roster that made the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons.
More importantly, phil was on his porch tweeting stupid sht, when he should have been at practices, and on the road with his young inexperience coach. Rambis, who was just as bad as fisher when he coached minny, was not a guy you can lean on for successful ideas.
kidd was a player/unofficial coach the last 7 yrs of his playing career, he also had a ton of veteran leadership on the NETS. what did fisher have, nothing close, which is more evidence as to why phil should have been there 24/7, and needs to be there for sure next season.
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.I agree with Bonn, you guys act like the season started in feb when melo decided to hang it up, and the roster was dismantle little after that. He started the season 5-30 with a roster that made the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons.
More importantly, phil was on his porch tweeting stupid sht, when he should have been at practices, and on the road with his young inexperience coach. Rambis, who was just as bad as fisher when he coached minny, was not a guy you can lean on for successful ideas.
kidd was a player/unofficial coach the last 7 yrs of his playing career, he also had a ton of veteran leadership on the NETS. what did fisher have, nothing close, which is more evidence as to why phil should have been there 24/7, and needs to be there for sure next season.
Less tweeting...more traveling.
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Well we have a different interpretation. I don't think you add $150 mil in vets (Melo and Calderon) just to try to get a high lottery pick. It's more like he meant to drive forward but accidentally had the car in reverse all day. We're just lucky he misfired badly in a season where league the forced us to keep our pick.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Well we have a different interpretation. I don't think you add $150 mil in vets (Melo and Calderon) just to try to get a high lottery pick. It's more like he meant to drive forward but accidentally had the car in reverse all day. We're just lucky he misfired badly in a season where league the forced us to keep our pick.
Don't agree that re-signing your star player can be categorized as a quick fix. Quick fixes are usually about bringing in players. Calderon ate up some cap space but not enough to consider it problematic. Like I said, the end result is lots of cap space and a top pick among others. It was an ugly season but we come out the other side in better shape than we went in as far as flexibility.
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Well we have a different interpretation. I don't think you add $150 mil in vets (Melo and Calderon) just to try to get a high lottery pick. It's more like he meant to drive forward but accidentally had the car in reverse all day. We're just lucky he misfired badly in a season where league the forced us to keep our pick.Don't agree that re-signing your star player can be categorized as a quick fix. Quick fixes are usually about bringing in players. Calderon ate up some cap space but not enough to consider it problematic. Like I said, the end result is lots of cap space and a top pick among others. It was an ugly season but we come out the other side in better shape than we went in as far as flexibility.
Quick fix was your term. I simply said I don't think he spent $150 mil on vets to try to get a high lottery pick. But I agree that we're potentially in a better place (depending on whether Phil actually gets the draft pick right). Even Nixluva and virtually all of Phil's strongest supporters here have not been arguing that he was trying from the outset to get a high lottery pick. To paraphrase Nixluva, getting a high pick became the strategy only once plan A failed.
The scenario is more like accidentally driving in reverse all day just to find a prize in the spot you land at. Depending on your outlook, you'll either be thrilled with the prize or concerned that the person accidentally drove his car in reverse all day.
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Well we have a different interpretation. I don't think you add $150 mil in vets (Melo and Calderon) just to try to get a high lottery pick. It's more like he meant to drive forward but accidentally had the car in reverse all day. We're just lucky he misfired badly in a season where league the forced us to keep our pick.Don't agree that re-signing your star player can be categorized as a quick fix. Quick fixes are usually about bringing in players. Calderon ate up some cap space but not enough to consider it problematic. Like I said, the end result is lots of cap space and a top pick among others. It was an ugly season but we come out the other side in better shape than we went in as far as flexibility.
would you pay calderon 7 mill today if he was a FA, even if it was the start of last season he wouldn't be worth it
its rare teams with worst record finish with the no. 1 pick.
Those are the facts. The rest make some sound ignorant.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I give Phil and Fisher a pass for last season, they were both learning on the job. They were handed chicken shit (for the most part) and expected to make chicken salad out of it, in short order. Next season they both need to show that the team is headed in the right direction, no excuses.
Phil was handed an almost average team (.451 or 19th out of 30). Once Tyson was traded and Melo got injured in game 2, only a magician would have been ready to coach the roster, though.Handed a .451 team with no cap room and a shortage of first and second round picks. Made upgrading the roster all the more difficult.
A .451 team with massive cap space in just a year and an owner who will buy picks. It's not ideal but you're making it sound much more dire than it was IMO. It's not like he was handed the .200 team he has now.Referring only to the results this season. Phil didnt follow the path of most of his predecessors and go for a massive quick fix. Now we have a high pick (should have been higher) cap space, and some draft picks. Played the hand he was dealt instead of mortgaging the future.
Well we have a different interpretation. I don't think you add $150 mil in vets (Melo and Calderon) just to try to get a high lottery pick. It's more like he meant to drive forward but accidentally had the car in reverse all day. We're just lucky he misfired badly in a season where league the forced us to keep our pick.Don't agree that re-signing your star player can be categorized as a quick fix. Quick fixes are usually about bringing in players. Calderon ate up some cap space but not enough to consider it problematic. Like I said, the end result is lots of cap space and a top pick among others. It was an ugly season but we come out the other side in better shape than we went in as far as flexibility.
Quick fix was your term. I simply said I don't think he spent $150 mil on vets to try to get a high lottery pick. But I agree that we're potentially in a better place (depending on whether Phil actually gets the draft pick right). Even Nixluva and virtually all of Phil's strongest supporters here have not been arguing that he was trying from the outset to get a high lottery pick. To paraphrase Nixluva, getting a high pick became the strategy only once plan A failed.
The scenario is more like accidentally driving in reverse all day just to find a prize in the spot you land at. Depending on your outlook, you'll either be thrilled with the prize or concerned that the person accidentally drove his car in reverse all day.
I never believed Phil did either. Dont believe that resigning Melo was about this season, Calderon, more so. Pretty sure I was one of the first to suggest that blowing up the team was Phil's plan B. Have said it repeatedly. Injuries, subpar play by some vets, made a playoff run unlikely so Phil held a fire sale and went for the top pick. He could have gone all in on this season, that didnt happen. Knicks are in a much better position for it. Phil wasnt executive of the year material this season, but he knew when pack it in and look towards next season, and beyond. I consider that a very good thing considering this franchise's MO in the past.