Knicks · Okafor or Stein @ 4??????? (page 3)
Vmart wrote:BRIGGS wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've also been a Stein supporter for the Knicks at 4 but this also depends on if we know Monroe is signing with us which i have a feeling that Phil or Melo or both already know if he's planning on signing with us or at least if they know the chance is very high of him signing with us. Would you want OK4 and Monroe playing next to each other down low?? I think with the right pieces around them we could make it work but we'd definitely be giving some defense away but with Stein and Monroe down low it works much better.You take Okafor and save the 60mm--thats a no brainer.
That was what I was thinking. I can't even believe anyone would take WCS over Okafor ridiculous.
Hey you see I am normal:)
I am of a different opinion on Stein than some here--and people are taking offense but I think that after 3 years and really watching him Im being fair in this assessment.
I think Willie Stein has positional awkwardness a weak base and I believe he could be somewhat weak mentally. Also there is a red flag with me that he practices well/ shoots well and then the bright light come on he is very inconsistent. There can be some reasonable justification that he was a football player who has transitioned(I dont like that word)to basketball and he needed more time to hone skills. Anyone can have a bad game--but WCS has had a LOT of mediocre games in his career. Hey the big man position in college is hard--space is limited that could play into it as well. But I have a sour taste with thus guy --I dont like that he doesnt show up at times and that his mentality in practice seems to have more focus than the actual game. Seems like a real good dude--nothing against him.
BRIGGS wrote:Vmart wrote:BRIGGS wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:I've also been a Stein supporter for the Knicks at 4 but this also depends on if we know Monroe is signing with us which i have a feeling that Phil or Melo or both already know if he's planning on signing with us or at least if they know the chance is very high of him signing with us. Would you want OK4 and Monroe playing next to each other down low?? I think with the right pieces around them we could make it work but we'd definitely be giving some defense away but with Stein and Monroe down low it works much better.You take Okafor and save the 60mm--thats a no brainer.
That was what I was thinking. I can't even believe anyone would take WCS over Okafor ridiculous.
Hey you see I am normal:)
I am of a different opinion on Stein than some here--and people are taking offense but I think that after 3 years and really watching him Im being fair in this assessment.
I think Willie Stein has positional awkwardness a weak base and I believe he could be somewhat weak mentally. Also there is a red flag with me that he practices well/ shoots well and then the bright light come on he is very inconsistent. There can be some reasonable justification that he was a football player who has transitioned(I dont like that word)to basketball and he needed more time to hone skills. Anyone can have a bad game--but WCS has had a LOT of mediocre games in his career. Hey the big man position in college is hard--space is limited that could play into it as well. But I have a sour taste with thus guy --I dont like that he doesnt show up at times and that his mentality in practice seems to have more focus than the actual game. Seems like a real good dude--nothing against him.
I guess the knicks will be losing some big time fans, from what I'm hearing. I see all the negatives as well, but I also see the negatives and positives in everybody. Basically I remember watching the Clippers saying, if only we had DeAndre Jordan on our team, he would be great next to Melo. Well, based on DJ's college stats, WCS is projected to have a similar career as DJ, with potential to be better due to his perceived offensive game and lateral quickness and IQ for PnR defense.....
As far as picking Stein over Ok4, not sure why this is even a thread. But discounting Stein's value to a team is ridiculous. Unless people hate DJ's game and don't see his value to the clippers, then I understand the hate towards Stein. Otherwise, he will impact the game on the defensive end and put up similar numbers as DJ.....Hopefully he has a better free throw.
nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.
Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.
nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.
AGREEEEEEE
Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.
I would chose Stein without a second thought.
Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.
If Ok4 is that great, he shouldn't be there at 4! If Ok4 is there at 4, there's a reason. You don't go from being the number 1 rated player all year, and then fall to #4 all of a sudden. These guys are professional scouts, with scouting NBA talent for a living. These guys are also business people and see Ok4 as a high stock for an easy trade. Again, if he's there at 4, thats a major red flag. And it's not an easy decision, if scouts don't think he's a franchise player, regardless of his college stats. I'm just a fan, I don't get paid for this. But there are people making millions who do this stuff for a living. Gotta trust your scouts.
blkexec wrote:Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.
If Ok4 is that great, he shouldn't be there at 4! If Ok4 is there at 4, there's a reason. You don't go from being the number 1 rated player all year, and then fall to #4 all of a sudden. These guys are professional scouts, with scouting NBA talent for a living. These guys are also business people and see Ok4 as a high stock for an easy trade. Again, if he's there at 4, thats a major red flag. And it's not an easy decision, if scouts don't think he's a franchise player, regardless of his college stats. I'm just a fan, I don't get paid for this. But there are people making millions who do this stuff for a living. Gotta trust your scouts.
He won't be there at 4. There is no chance.
Knicks1969 wrote:Vmart wrote:nixluva wrote:Man i'm telling you people are totally underestimating what WCS upside is. This guy in the NBA game is gonna look like a different player. The crowded and slow college game limits his talents. He'll be able to stretch his wings in the NBA. You're talking about a player that was able to impact the game without the ball and even when he did touch the ball its was low usage and high % offense. He is a high impact player. Blocked shots, Steals, PnR Defense, Offensive rebounds and Put Backs, Fast Break scoring, Alleyoops, Mid Range jumpers, Slashing... He's going to bring a speed and energy to the team that will be infectious. The team will be more dynamic and faster on both ends.Not over Okafor. If that choice is given and you took WCS you would have taken the biggest risk in the draft. Only because Okafor is on the board. You will not be able to justify that to the fans to the papers. That would be the equivalent of taking Bowie over Jordan. The trajectory of their career path are very different. Now will they hit it most likely not. I know for a fact you would not take WCS over Okafor. If that choice was truely in your hand and you make the call I am 100% sure you would take Okafor.
I would chose Stein without a second thought.
Because your not choosing when it counts. We are amateur hour GMs here.
crzymdups wrote:Why are people acting like we'll have a choice? There is no chance Okafor is on the board at 4. Zero.
The problem with that is that you're wrong. You have absolutely NO idea how the draft will fall. You can predict just like all of us are doing but you DO NOT KNOW 100%. The obvious guess is the draft going Towns at 1, OK4 or Russell at 2 and the other at 3 but you don't think there's any way at all that the Lakers or Philly take Porzingis?? He was already someone teams were intrigued by coming into the draft, then he had a great workout for teams to show why teams are intrigued by him, then the Lakers gave him a private workout, so you're way wrong in saying there's no chance of OK4 being there at 4 cause it absolutely can happen. I'm not saying it will cause i, just like everyone on here don't know for sure.
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Why are people acting like we'll have a choice? There is no chance Okafor is on the board at 4. Zero.The problem with that is that you're wrong. You have absolutely NO idea how the draft will fall. You can predict just like all of us are doing but you DO NOT KNOW 100%. The obvious guess is the draft going Towns at 1, OK4 or Russell at 2 and the other at 3 but you don't think there's any way at all that the Lakers or Philly take Porzingis?? He was already someone teams were intrigued by coming into the draft, then he had a great workout for teams to show why teams are intrigued by him, then the Lakers gave him a private workout, so you're way wrong in saying there's no chance of OK4 being there at 4 cause it absolutely can happen. I'm not saying it will cause i, just like everyone on here don't know for sure.
Why is Okafor only working out for the T'Wolves and Lakers then? Seems pretty foolhardy if he doesn't have a promise from the Lakers he won't fall past 2.
Russell is indeed working out for the Sixers which tells you he does not have a promise from the Lakers.
I just think it's silly to expect Okafor to last past 2. He's a franchise player. Heck, Minnesota may take him #1. And, no, that doesn't mean Towns will slip to 4 either.
Hoping Okafor somehow slips is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think where there's a chance someone slips to us is that maybe Philly is enamored with Porzingis and takes him over Russell. Maybe. And even that is highly unlikely.
jbeachboy wrote:whats his work ethic like , stein, he was like a complete no show in the game kentucky was eliminated
All you have to do is look at how he's performed in all his workouts. Dude has aced all of them. Others have been gassed or poor shooting, but he's just humming along. He's not even supposed to look good in shooting drills and he has. So I think that's a testament to his work ethic.
I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.
I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.
Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.
OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.
Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.
Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.
In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.
Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.
Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.
Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.
You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.
No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.
WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.
I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.
Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.
OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.
Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.
Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.
In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.
Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.
Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.
You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.
No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.
Very well written and reasoned. I will say tho that it doesn't mean that WCS hasn't made significant progress as a player or that he didn't have latent talent that had yet to be developed until now. He wouldn't be the 1st player to seemingly come out of nowhere with much improved offensive ability. That's what he's showing so far. You can't fake shooting from all areas of the floor even in a workout. You can't fake being able to score with either hand in the post either nor having great agility and footwork. Quite frankly WCS has improved with hard work. You can't take that away from him just cuz you don't like him as a prospect. 4 workouts and WCS has been getting better each time.
Also this idea that WCS "never" showed any offensive game isn't true. He was inconsistent but he did show flashes of an offensive game. Whatever his issues were at Kentucky he's working to overcome them and has looked great recently.
As for OK4 working on his conditioning to more closely match WCS. HA!!! Man you can't be serious!!! OK4 will never be the elite athlete that WCS is. You are totally underselling just how elite WCS is as an athlete.
however i just cannot see lakers AND philly passing up on him.
technomaster wrote:If both are available and the Knicks like Stein - dang, hope we trade down.Larry Sanders's one good season might be a way to gauge Stein's upside. Maybe a 10-10-3bpg season in 29mpg. That's a good player, borderline all-star caliber center. Is it anything special? Will he earn his keep on the offensive end? Will opponents change the way they play because of him?
I also look at Robin Lopez's career as another benchmark. Without looking, something like 8-8-1.5bpg in 25mpg. We can get a Robin Lopez caliber player as a free agent instead.
I like Okafor as a guy who could be Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, the good Eddy Curry, or perhaps more on offense - maybe even Pau Gasol. He's a good passer and sees thme defense. Regardless of what you think of those guys, they demand double or triple teams when they get the ball. Okafor will make his teammates into better shooters.
One thing of note. WCS wasn't a huge factor in his first 2 seasons at Kentucky. He made strides and improved. At 2 years younger, Okafor also has room to grow on D. He won't be growing in high school
I love this comparison. Okafor being a Edddy Curry type with a year of breeding and a member of a championship squad. We can only wonder.
WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.
I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.
Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.
OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.
Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.
Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.
In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.
Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.
Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.
You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.
No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.
You actually think Okafor is fluid on offense and Stein will never be as fluid? Have you not watched Stein's footwork at both ends of the floor? Stein with proper coaching may endup as a polished player like Rasheed Wallace. I say Rasheed, becAuse he played inside out and played defense as well.
Knicks1969 wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.
I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.
Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.
OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.
Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.
Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.
In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.
Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.
Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.
You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.
No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.You actually think Okafor is fluid on offense and Stein will never be as fluid? Have you not watched Stein's footwork at both ends of the floor? Stein with proper coaching may endup as a polished player like Rasheed Wallace. I say Rasheed, becAuse he played inside out and played defense as well.
Honestly, you are basically showing your ignorance if you think Stein will ever have the fluidity and moves OK4 has on the offensive end.
As I said earlier, Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player, OK4 is a baller who needs to put on some muscle to become more athletic.
Big difference, and if you don't understand that difference, you have a problem.
No chance in hell that Jackson would take Stein over OK4.
WaltLongmire wrote:Knicks1969 wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:This is starting to sound like the "case for Stein" thread.I would take Porzingis over Stein in a second, and OK4 over Stein in an nano-second.
I could make a case against myself for taking OK4 over a guy I really like, Porzingis because of the Triangle- can't do that with Stein. Rumor has it that Hinkie likes Porzingis over OK4...Have hear nothing significant about Stein cracking the top 3.
Everyone always talking about the Triangle-the 3 best players at the top of the draft for the Triangle, in no particular order, are Russell, Towns, and OK4.
OK4 has elite post-up skills with a feel for the game in the paint that cannot be taught. He's a good passer from down there and is a combo of Duncan and Hakeem when he wants to score. For me his issue is physical maturity and losing some weight. Foul shooting is an issue, and you want a little more range on his J, but he already uses the glass better than any big in the NBA except Duncan, and he is only 19, and he clearly has baby fat left on his body.
Stein has a man's body, already, but as has been well documented, he never demonstrated the offensive ability that would force Calipari to increase his role in the offense. Good defender, but probably not as good as some of you think, and as we all know, he was a ghost in the biggest game of his career.
Interesting to know that in his freshman year, his team did not even make the tournament. In his Soph. year his team reached the finals without him, and in the biggest game would play that year, because he was injured the next day- he had another invisible man game against Wichita State. Everyone know what happened to KU this year, and who beat them.
In his 3 years at KU, therefore, KU's best finish in the tournament was when he was injured.
Some folks yell about workout warriors who show stuff in a video 1/0- Porzingis was criticized for this, by some, even though he is a known commodity to GMs. Stein has never shown a consistent and fluid offensive game in 3 years of college, yet some around here are talking about him becoming a 3 pt shooter and becoming an accomplished scorer.
Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player...OK4 is a baller who needs to be more of an athlete.Lot easier for OK4 to work on his body, just like Stein did during his 3 years, but Stein will never be as fluid as OK4 on offense.
You wonder when Stein started playing BB ball...but there are supposedly videos of OK4 playing BB as an infant.
No doubt who you take...only one of them passes the butt test.You actually think Okafor is fluid on offense and Stein will never be as fluid? Have you not watched Stein's footwork at both ends of the floor? Stein with proper coaching may endup as a polished player like Rasheed Wallace. I say Rasheed, becAuse he played inside out and played defense as well.
Honestly, you are basically showing your ignorance if you think Stein will ever have the fluidity and moves OK4 has on the offensive end.
As I said earlier, Stein is an athlete who became a basketball player, OK4 is a baller who needs to put on some muscle to become more athletic.
Big difference, and if you don't understand that difference, you have a problem.
No chance in hell that Jackson would take Stein over OK4.
U know that for a fact????
I still believe Stein, Winslow and Russell will prove to be the best players of this draft when it is all said and done.
Okafor reminds me
Of this dude:
Eddy Curry
anuary 27, 2009
Overview: A big, strong center with a very nice low-post game. Has good size and great strength by NBA standards. Possesses good lower body strength, but doesn’t show great explosiveness or leaping ability. Surprisingly nimble for a player his size. Lacks the mental toughness or work ethic to get himself into passable shape, which will likely end up defining his basketball career. Can score effectively from the paint, and gets to the free throw line at a superb rate, which makes him somewhat of a rare commodity, and would compensate for his other serious shortcomings if he were more serious about his approach. An exceptionally poor defender, passer and rebounder. Can’t play for most coaches for that reason. Entered the draft after graduating from Thornwood High School (IL). Took a few seasons, but quickly became a very effective offensive presence in the post. Had a down year with the Knicks in 2007, and has faced major setbacks in the form of injuries and off the court issues in 2008. Knee troubles could pose a threat to his long-term effectiveness given his size. Will have to develop some type of work ethic if he’s to salvage his once promising career.
Offense: A very solid low post threat who gets more than almost two thirds of his touches on the block with his back to the basket. Won’t take essentially any jump shots. Shows some impressive skills on the block. Will fight for position, but doesn’t always do that consistently. Will post up on either block with equal effectiveness, making more shots when he can turn baseline over his left shoulder on the right block. Doesn’t show a great left hand, but is so big that he is often able to turn over his right shoulder and bring the ball back in front of his before shooting. The true definition of a space-eater. Bullies his way to the rim when he’s posting up. Can back down almost any defender he is matched up with. Shows pretty nice touch with his right hand in the form of hooks, floaters, and lay ins. Goes to the line at a phenomenal rate due to the fact that he is often the one initiating contact. Shows some nice face up moves, being able to put the ball on the floor for one dribble before exploding to the rim. Doesn’t get a lot of dunks, and could stand to work on his conditioning to improve his quickness and explosiveness. An exceptionally poor passer, with a mediocre assist to turnover ratio. Consistently ranked among the league’s worst in turnover rate. Turns the ball over at a high rate when he puts it on the floor. Gets some offensive rebounds due to his sheer size. Has good hands in general, but will look clumsy at times. Not a smooth post player by any means, but gets the job done when he’s in shape and getting touches. Will need quite a while to round back into form after missing so many games due to his knee and conditioning problems. Could still be effective in the right system if he’s able to somehow get into shape.
Defense: Puts in almost no effort at all on the defensive end. Something of a lumbering big man, lacking the foot speed to keep up with quicker post players. Will get beat off the dribble consistently when asked to guard the high post and tends to get out of position when defending the ball when his man chooses to face up. Lacks the lateral quickness to be effective against players than use a lot of spins and fakes in the post. Has no trouble holding position on the block. Does a good job against more physical back to the basket players who can’t take advantage of him physically. Will often find himself on his man’s hip due to his inability to keep up with the post moves of most players. Gets called for a lot of fouls because of how frequently he is forced to recover when he’s beat. Doesn’t show quick hands when contesting shots and isn’t quick enough to be a factor from the weakside. Not going to hedge any screens. Has a tough time getting back to help out in transition, and doesn’t try too hard either. Will be even slower if his knee issues linger. Needs to work on his awareness and anticipation. Rebounds at a terrible rate for a player his size due to his lack of athleticism and hustle. Doesn’t always get into position to box out when the shot goes up and seems to be a step behind.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3dRKH8Dc1
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