Knicks · Jackson on Mike and Mike...Somewhat Lame Regarding the Draft (page 2)

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Russell falling to #4 changes everything. It's just not something we can know right now. Philly is the major decider at this point. What they do will dictate what we do to the greatest degree. If they somehow passed on Russell it would totally change this draft for the Knicks.

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

FistOfOakley wrote:

franco12 wrote:I want to be optimistic, but I'm worried what the next few years will look like.

Are we going to bypass talent simply because its not smart enough to play in the triangle?

Would Stephen Curry or LeBron James fit the triangle?

We have 1 draft pick this year, none next year. We have cap room and a roster full of question marks. We're not set anywhere.

Melo is a giant question mark. Does he recover, or does he become Amar'e Stoudemire 2.0?

Melo has a ton of minutes on his body - look at what Kobe has down - hurt the last 2 years.

The human body can only put up with so much damage before it breaks.

We won 17 games last year. We probably should expect that at best, healthy, lucky, we're doubling that and anything better is gravy.

he flat out said they were taking BPA...

BPA who understands the triangle!

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

He also said he is taking BPA. If Russell is there @4 he will clearly be the BPA. Russell can play either guard position and a lead guard to Phil have a different meaning to us.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

We had a secret workout for him, and he already cost Phil $25Gs.

He seems like a perfect player to build on offensively, and might be one of the few guys willing to challenge Anthony as alpha dog come the big moments in a game.

Don't know Phil's terminology, but none of the guards we have now fit the Jordan/Kobe profile in terms of ability.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

He won't let Russell pass at 4.

We had a secret workout for him, and he already cost Phil $25Gs.

He seems like a perfect player to build on offensively, and might be one of the few guys willing to challenge Anthony as alpha dog come the big moments in a game.

Don't know Phil's terminology, but none of the guards we have now fit the Jordan/Kobe profile in terms of ability.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well..He also said he won't be taking players people expect him to take..Phil just scares me..It's not above him to make an ideological(triangle) pick rather than the talent(BPA) pick..

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

He won't let Russell pass at 4.

We had a secret workout for him, and he already cost Phil $25Gs.

He seems like a perfect player to build on offensively, and might be one of the few guys willing to challenge Anthony as alpha dog come the big moments in a game.

Don't know Phil's terminology, but none of the guards we have now fit the Jordan/Kobe profile in terms of ability.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well..He also said he won't be taking players people expect him to take..Phil just scares me..It's not above him to make an ideological(triangle) pick rather than the talent(BPA) pick..

Phil and his staff understand player values. He's not just going to waste the value of the #4 pick. If he didn't want Russell if he fell he could still use the value of that pick properly. I think he'd love Russell at #4, but I think he believes Russell will be gone.

Phil may end up taking a deal if he can get max value from #4. IMO teams will call and that can be a good thing for this team. If he can turn that pick into more than one really good player.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

He won't let Russell pass at 4.

We had a secret workout for him, and he already cost Phil $25Gs.

He seems like a perfect player to build on offensively, and might be one of the few guys willing to challenge Anthony as alpha dog come the big moments in a game.

Don't know Phil's terminology, but none of the guards we have now fit the Jordan/Kobe profile in terms of ability.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well..He also said he won't be taking players people expect him to take..Phil just scares me..It's not above him to make an ideological(triangle) pick rather than the talent(BPA) pick..

Phil and his staff understand player values. He's not just going to waste the value of the #4 pick. If he didn't want Russell if he fell he could still use the value of that pick properly. I think he'd love Russell at #4, but I think he believes Russell will be gone.

Phil may end up taking a deal if he can get max value from #4. IMO teams will call and that can be a good thing for this team. If he can turn that pick into more than one really good player.

We have one NBA starter on the team... I think we need to make that 4th pick and not trade it...

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:People get too caught up in stuff like this. This is a man that has had prolific scoring from his SG/SF spots and PF/C spots. He has never really had a big time player at the PG spot. A 3nD PG is pretty much the prototypical lead guard for Phil. He doesn't want a Ball Dominant PG. In reality he likes playing 2 guards who can pass and score and of course defend. He doesn't need a guard that has to pound the ball in order to be effective. A guard that can also Post up like Jordan or Kobe is fine but he doesn't want just pounding the ball and no other movement or passing.

So Russell isn't a good fit??

Russell is a perfect fit!!! He's a Combo guard which is what you would want. A guard that has size and scoring but can function well off the ball as well as with the ball. He's not a pure PG. He's a scoring guard and would be put in the Kobe/MJ role and not the Fisher/Paxson/Kerr role.

Steve Mills might be taking over sooner rather than later....Phil might have a heart attack if we get Russell.

Russell is the only guy in the draft who might fit the Kobe/MJ role, and I also think that he is young enough to physically mature into a tier 2 superior athlete.

You look at his frame, and you can see that he can easily put on the extra muscle- and he's already talked about the fitness things he been doing.

He's worked with the same folks who train the Towns and Stein, and they really work on your strength, or so it would seem from looking at the beefcake shots they had of Towns and Stein showing their muscles.

Pretty amazing if he slips to us...but not impossible.

Phil said we are set at lead guard and SF...

He won't let Russell pass at 4.

We had a secret workout for him, and he already cost Phil $25Gs.

He seems like a perfect player to build on offensively, and might be one of the few guys willing to challenge Anthony as alpha dog come the big moments in a game.

Don't know Phil's terminology, but none of the guards we have now fit the Jordan/Kobe profile in terms of ability.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well..He also said he won't be taking players people expect him to take..Phil just scares me..It's not above him to make an ideological(triangle) pick rather than the talent(BPA) pick..

You know I like Porzingis...I would take Russell over him without thinking twice- he's a good fit in many ways, and might eventually be the most exciting player to come out of this draft. He's also ready to compete day one, I think.

This is a case where the Triangle can help a guy get some better shots without doing as much ball handling.

Has a little bit of an attitude, but the good type, and you just have to figure he's a gym rat type with a high BB IQ.

Can't imagine Jackson would let him slip past 4 unless he got bombed by some some kind of amazing trade offer.

holfresh wrote:We have one NBA starter on the team... I think we need to make that 4th pick and not trade it...

What you just said makes the case for a possible trade. If you end up with a good NBA player, Good 1st rd draft pick, later 1st or high 2nd rd pick and a 2016 pick, that's GREAT value for the #4. If Towns, Okafor and Russell are gone, I believe a trade could make the most sense in this draft.

TPercy wrote:I hope to god that lead guard is not Galloway.

then who?

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:We have one NBA starter on the team... I think we need to make that 4th pick and not trade it...

What you just said makes the case for a possible trade. If you end up with a good NBA player, Good 1st rd draft pick, later 1st or high 2nd rd pick and a 2016 pick, that's GREAT value for the #4. If Towns, Okafor and Russell are gone, I believe a trade could make the most sense in this draft.

No it doesn't...It better to get a cheap pick who can start which will allow is to add better quality players via Free Agency..We can possibly end up trading the pick for a Reggie Jackson type who can command close tot he max then end up with less pieces...I think you can see the better scenario is adding the cheap starter..

TPercy wrote:I hope to god that lead guard is not Galloway.

Not sure that you want to discount him as a player. He is not the Kobe/MJ, but there is no reason why he can't be that second guard who makes some Js and plays some hard nose D.

He is a much better shooter than he showed last year.

He should never be your featured guard, and might not be a starter at some point, but he is the type of player who gets about 20-25 MPG on a good team and has some big moments. Phil's teams have always had this kind of player.

I still think of him as a late #1 who we traded for, last year.

crzymdups wrote:Wow, this is actually somewhat terrifying.

In what way is this team "covered" at lead guard.

The more Phil talks, the more he sounds like a dinosaur intent on proving that dinosaurs once ruled the planet.

I fear for this draft.

He basically wants smart, two way players who can pass and play team first. Not sure why you find that ridiculously old fashioned.

crzymdups wrote:Wow, this is actually somewhat terrifying.

In what way is this team "covered" at lead guard.

The more Phil talks, the more he sounds like a dinosaur intent on proving that dinosaurs once ruled the planet.

I fear for this draft.

Now if you had said "he seems like a dinosaur intent on proving dinosaurs will once again rule the planet," you might have an good analogy.

Guys misunderstand where he is coming from...partly his fault- but he is still misunderstood on the matter.

tj23 wrote:There's been way too much talk from Phil about filling positions. This team needs everything. Even if a deal is set for Monroe it shouldn't affect the draft at all. I am terrified right now. At least the health concerns with Stein should push him out of the mix.

Signing Monroe might be influenced by who we take, I don't think Monroe's availability will have any influence on who we take.

tj23 wrote:There's been way too much talk from Phil about filling positions. This team needs everything. Even if a deal is set for Monroe it shouldn't affect the draft at all. I am terrified right now. At least the health concerns with Stein should push him out of the mix.

You may not be respecting his knowledge of the process of constructing a winning team. He know this process. For those who think all he did was just walk in and coach teams you are sorely mistaken. Phil has always been involved in how his teams were constructed and why they were able to function at a high level. He has done this so many times with different rosters that he has a very clear vision of how to construct a team. Now he has the means to actually do that.

It's not just about talent for talents sake. He knows that it's more about the right players and not just raw talent. People confuse this all the time. There have been so many super talented non winning NBA talents. That's not the end all be all. In some ways Melo is an example of that. Phil believes he can still construct a winning team even with Melo but not if he was to add even more players like that or worse. He's looking for winning players in the Team sense of the word.

The way it works is that the more team oriented, two way players you add the more that mentality dominates your team and culture. No single player will be able to redirect that attitude and team disposition.

As for WCS I don't believe that the hyped health concerns will really impact whether Phil will find a way to add him if he sees him as a valuable addition. We don't know how he really feels about WCS. I'm guessing that he really likes him a lot, just based on his expressed desire to add a big with the talents on D that WCS has. Perhaps now he can get him later in the draft which would be preferable.