Knicks · I Think Mudiay Might Have a Guarantee (page 2)

Would take Hezonja over him, hands down, if Phil is looking for a guard type player.

Jackson, unless it was a smokescreen, said we had our "lead guard." I even read a rumor that the Lakers might have asked him in a second time simply to go up against some second round prospects they were looking at to assess their value.

My issues with Mudiay:

Can he really be a consistent shooter?

If Phil wants to run the Triangle, and the Triangle is not a classic PG style offense- how do you take a guy who has a reputation as not being a good shooter? He is big, and can get to the hoop, but you wonder if he is Phil's type of guard.

Other things I have issues with:

He clearly went to a HS that was designed to minimize the academics and promote athletics- which is why it has since been shut down and involved in scandal. I taught, and I coached in HS- and when I hear this I really get suspicious. He seemed to be taking the easy way out in an attempt to showcase himself.

I would feel much differently about him if he had played with Brown, no doubt about it, but...

...He chose to play in an overseas league which is clearly inferior to the European leagues. At least Jennings tried to play in Europe. Jackson talked about the overseas games and the superiority of certain leages, and also talked about the maturity factor. Add to this the fact that the Chinese league seems to give players much more freedom.

Don't know what the circumstances were, and whether Mudiay tried to hook up with a European team, but if you look at the scoring for the two leagues you might get an idea of what kind of game is being played in China these days.

Errick MCCOLLUM
Zhejiang.
(185-PG-88)
Avg: 39.6
1. McCollum, Zhejiang. 39.6
2. Warren, Chongqin. 38.9
3. Jones, Manati 36.8
4. Wafer, Shanxi Zh. 32.5
5. Akognon, Partizan 31.9
6. Brown, DongGuan L. 31.3
7. Hudson, LA Clippers 31.2
8. Blatche, Xinjiang. 31.1
9. Douby, TianJin S. 30.9
10. Dentmon, Texas L. 30.4

RANK	PLAYER	               TEAM	                 GAMES POINTS	AVE.	PER 40 MIN.
1	 GOUDELOCK, ANDREW	Fenerbahce Ulker Istanbul  29	493	17.00	22.80
2	 DE COLO, NANDO	CSKA    Moscow	                   28	403	14.39	23.58
3	 MARJANOVIC, BOBAN	Crvena Zvezda Belgrade	   24	398	16.58	24.31
4	 ROCHESTIE, TAYLOR	Nizhny Novgorod	           21	397	18.90	25.17
5	 SMITH, DEVIN	Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv	   25	376	15.04	18.89
6	 SPANOULIS, VASSILIS	Olympiacos Piraeus	   26	374	14.38	20.46
7	 PARGO, JEREMY	Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv	   27	369	13.67	17.09
8	 TEODOSIC, MILOS	CSKA Moscow	           24	354	14.75	20.93
9	 BJELICA, NEMANJA	Fenerbahce Ulker Istanbul  29	350	12.07	17.39
10	 ANDERSON, JAMES	Zalgiris Kaunas	           24	349	14.54	20.47

i don't think he got a guarantee.... he said he was only working out for 4 teams very early on in the process...

unless the knicks told him they were gonna draft him which i doubt happened...

would mudiay be wasted in triangle offense?

Good article on Mudiay. The kid has been through a lot to get to this point.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/...

WaltLongmire wrote:Would take Hezonja over him, hands down, if Phil is looking for a guard type player.

Jackson, unless it was a smokescreen, said we had our "lead guard." I even read a rumor that the Lakers might have asked him in a second time simply to go up against some second round prospects they were looking at to assess their value.

My issues with Mudiay:

Can he really be a consistent shooter?

If Phil wants to run the Triangle, and the Triangle is not a classic PG style offense- how do you take a guy who has a reputation as not being a good shooter? He is big, and can get to the hoop, but you wonder if he is Phil's type of guard.

Other things I have issues with:

He clearly went to a HS that was designed to minimize the academics and promote athletics- which is why it has since been shut down and involved in scandal. I taught, and I coached in HS- and when I hear this I really get suspicious. He seemed to be taking the easy way out in an attempt to showcase himself.

I would feel much differently about him if he had played with Brown, no doubt about it, but...

...He chose to play in an overseas league which is clearly inferior to the European leagues. At least Jennings tried to play in Europe. Jackson talked about the overseas games and the superiority of certain leages, and also talked about the maturity factor. Add to this the fact that the Chinese league seems to give players much more freedom.

Don't know what the circumstances were, and whether Mudiay tried to hook up with a European team, but if you look at the scoring for the two leagues you might get an idea of what kind of game is being played in China these days.

Errick MCCOLLUM
Zhejiang.
(185-PG-88)
Avg: 39.6
1. McCollum, Zhejiang. 39.6
2. Warren, Chongqin. 38.9
3. Jones, Manati 36.8
4. Wafer, Shanxi Zh. 32.5
5. Akognon, Partizan 31.9
6. Brown, DongGuan L. 31.3
7. Hudson, LA Clippers 31.2
8. Blatche, Xinjiang. 31.1
9. Douby, TianJin S. 30.9
10. Dentmon, Texas L. 30.4

RANK	PLAYER	               TEAM	                 GAMES POINTS	AVE.	PER 40 MIN.
1	 GOUDELOCK, ANDREW	Fenerbahce Ulker Istanbul  29	493	17.00	22.80
2	 DE COLO, NANDO	CSKA    Moscow	                   28	403	14.39	23.58
3	 MARJANOVIC, BOBAN	Crvena Zvezda Belgrade	   24	398	16.58	24.31
4	 ROCHESTIE, TAYLOR	Nizhny Novgorod	           21	397	18.90	25.17
5	 SMITH, DEVIN	Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv	   25	376	15.04	18.89
6	 SPANOULIS, VASSILIS	Olympiacos Piraeus	   26	374	14.38	20.46
7	 PARGO, JEREMY	Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv	   27	369	13.67	17.09
8	 TEODOSIC, MILOS	CSKA Moscow	           24	354	14.75	20.93
9	 BJELICA, NEMANJA	Fenerbahce Ulker Istanbul  29	350	12.07	17.39
10	 ANDERSON, JAMES	Zalgiris Kaunas	           24	349	14.54	20.47

He was an 18 year old that has to be taken into consideration . I was high on Mudiay even before China and so was everyone else on the draft boards. There are a lot of players coming into this draft that were ranked very high on boards before they played in College. But they are still in the lottery and they sucked in college their freshman year.

Mundiay got 1.2mil. ITs about the money.

He could know he's flawed and has a better chance of going top 10 if teams think he is a steal from #4 down.

wargames wrote:He could know he's flawed and has a better chance of going top 10 if teams think he is a steal from #4 down.

in a PG league and with Denver and Kings needing a STARTING CALBIER PG, I do not see him slipping past those 2 teams as they want to go younger
With a ceiling of John Wall and weakness's being shooting *it is a skill that could be learned, however, his physical body is NBA ready now, though he will have to sharpen up those skills and need to work hard*
Which I think he does have a good work ethic and credit the story about him earning the trust of his team mates that did not like him to start the season but changed their perspective on him, though losing in the end...

Especially with this WCS injury, unless it is smokescreen, someone gets moved up as well and Kaminksi is unlikely to pass Bobcats now with these moves made

IMO,

if we stay at # 4, we should draft either KP or Mudiay

if Winslow was a legit 6-6 or 6-7, I would have felt differently, however, at about Iman's size, and without a LBJ or even at least a Jimmy Butler/Kawaii Leanard to pair with him, I just do not think he would be enough for our roster

ON WINSLOW AT #4

Think we could develop in to a much better DEFENSIVE team but would unlikely be LEGIT contenders, not good enough on OFFENSE or DEFENSE but could be play off pretenders as 1 or 2 and done with just CA

DO we trade down from 4th if Nuggets gets pick 6/7 to acquire 2 FITS for our system with

Winslow/Mario Henzjoa *might not come over till next year, when salary rises*
WCS/Kaminski

maybe add in draft rights to Jovic or Jsurkic??

Maybe a 3rd move for MCW, Henson, and their pick? Though I would much rather have Giannes if we keep CA, as I think he would compliment CA's weakness's and each other on OFFENSE/DEFENSE as CA can also teach him how to shoot and use his handle to score, maybe some bully ball as well, as we reunite the Greek Freaks
His ability to play, point forard/defend all 5 positions, and post up could be Scotty Pippen like, especially if we add Durant to play Jordan's role and maybe CA to Kukoc's role
Those verastile talents would allow us to theoritically play both SMALL/BIG ball in the Triangle as it is interchangeable as we fully learn to exectue the system
More importantly, they are YOUNG, so they can improve and build chemistry together as they are still in rookie contracts as well to allow to to target some TOP TEIR's talents

Passing of mudiay is a mistake especially if we reach for a player like kaminsky or stein. However if we picked winslow i wouldnt be upset

broussard says knicks leaning mudiay at 4, kaminsky if trade down

StarksEwing1 wrote:Passing of mudiay is a mistake especially if we reach for a player like kaminsky or stein. However if we picked winslow i wouldnt be upset

I'd prefer Winslow over Mudiay, but yeah, I wouldn't be upset about either.

In fact, if the Knicks select Mudiay and keep him, I will be quite intrigued.

One thing I'll say that is very interesting - we never heard a single report of Mudiay working out for anyone past 4, right? Not Orlando, not Sacramento, not Denver.

Either his agents are terrible, or that's pretty telling.

Same reason I ultimately think the Lakers just take Okafor - he never worked out for Philly or the Knicks.

IMO all these guys are very close but Mudiay has the highest upside. If he ever improves his jumper he's got so much game already that it makes him a guy with a lot of upside. He's got great size for a PG and will likely play the Kobe/Mj role in the offense and not the Fisher role. I would have no problem if they felt Mudiay was the BPA. I can't really argue given how little info I have on him or Hezonja or KrisP. Those are the high upside guys left on the board.

knicks might actually get rid of triangle if mudiay struggles in triangle

jbeachboy wrote:knicks might actually get rid of triangle if mudiay struggles in triangle

No, we get rid of him!!!!

nixluva wrote:IMO all these guys are very close but Mudiay has the highest upside. If he ever improves his jumper he's got so much game already that it makes him a guy with a lot of upside. He's got great size for a PG and will likely play the Kobe/Mj role in the offense and not the Fisher role. I would have no problem if they felt Mudiay was the BPA. I can't really argue given how little info I have on him or Hezonja or KrisP. Those are the high upside guys left on the board.

unless the top 3 fall mudiay or winslow is a great consolation prize. I dont trust taking prizingis no matter how hyped he is

jbeachboy wrote:knicks might actually get rid of triangle if mudiay struggles in triangle

They won't get rid of the Triangle. He's going to be taught how to excel in the role as the scoring guard much the same as Shved did. You need PG type skills in addition to being able to get to the basket. That's the main things you need. Shooting part of it but you don't have to be Steph Curry in order to excel in the role. It'll be easier for him than most other offenses in that he will only be responsible for his half of the floor most of the time. He'll be in the 2 man game most of the time which is the easiest thing for a PnR PG to run. It will be a very slight adjustment for him IMO.

nixluva wrote:IMO all these guys are very close but Mudiay has the highest upside. If he ever improves his jumper he's got so much game already that it makes him a guy with a lot of upside. He's got great size for a PG and will likely play the Kobe/Mj role in the offense and not the Fisher role. I would have no problem if they felt Mudiay was the BPA. I can't really argue given how little info I have on him or Hezonja or KrisP. Those are the high upside guys left on the board.

Wall had an awful shot when he got drafted. It doesn't take anything but REPS to fix an inconsistent shot. Mudiay played only 12 games last year. It's a non-issue IMO. We should pick him. He's the next elite PG in the NBA, and as Nix said, he's cut from the Kobe mold. Would be terrible to pass him up for a big, unless we are trading down for value.

Moonangie wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO all these guys are very close but Mudiay has the highest upside. If he ever improves his jumper he's got so much game already that it makes him a guy with a lot of upside. He's got great size for a PG and will likely play the Kobe/Mj role in the offense and not the Fisher role. I would have no problem if they felt Mudiay was the BPA. I can't really argue given how little info I have on him or Hezonja or KrisP. Those are the high upside guys left on the board.

Wall had an awful shot when he got drafted. It doesn't take anything but REPS to fix an inconsistent shot. Mudiay played only 12 games last year. It's a non-issue IMO. We should pick him. He's the next elite PG in the NBA, and as Nix said, he's cut from the Kobe mold. Would be terrible to pass him up for a big, unless we are trading down for value.

Mudiay's shot isn't that bad so it looks like he'll be able to improve it IMO. It's really tough for us cuz we didn't get to see how he looked working out for Phil. I do know that Phil likes penetration more than just pure jump shooting from his SG. He wants a player that can attack the defense and get to the hole. That is the one thing that he does better than the other guards.

So we have a guard who has upside, size of a SG and he attacks the defense which is very important in this offense. I would have no problem with Mudiay at #4. I can understand if Phil thinks he has that star potential and he can mentor the kid along with Fish. Way back I created a thread for Mudiay based on the kids upside and his possible fit in the Kobe/MJ role. If Phil thinks he has enough talent to handle that on some level then we should all be happy with that.

plus the point guard market is very weak and galloway is really a sg