Knicks · Official: New York Knicks 2015 Free Agency Thread (page 11)

crzymdups wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:According to Wikipedia we signed Luigi Datome to a 2-year/$5M deal.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/6/4/8723...

Odd place to break the news,if true

Wait wtf is this true?

I honestly think someone is trolling the Knicks on this one.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

1	PG	Jerian Grant		        1,310,000
2	SG	Arron Afflalo		        7,800,000
3	SF	Derrick Williams	        4,870,000
4	PF	Carmelo Anthony		       22,875,000
5	C	Robin Lopez		       12,500,000
6		Jose Calderon		        7,400,000
7		Cleanthony Early		  845,000
8		Langston Galloway		  845,000
9		Kristaps Porzingis		3,443,100
10		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
11		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
12		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
13		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
14		Vet Min Exception		
15		Room Exception		

Assumed Cap
$68,000,000

Total Used
63,988,100

Space Remaining
$4,011,900.00

Good breakdown. Also, since the next player will take up the cap hold you can add the 525k to the money remaining.

That's true. Might not be as clear. So, a $4.5m player, the $2.8mm room exception and then DLeague contracts or the Vet Min exceptions. Here is the other side, if they left enough room, they may not have to renounce all their players to make these signings which would let us go over the cap to sign Shved, Aldrich, etc...

crzymdups wrote:I hope we don't renounce Cole and Lou Amundson. We need some lunch pail guys.

I also wouldn't mind bringing back Shved and Lance Thomas.

I don't see the point in Jason Smith though.

crzymdups wrote:I hope we don't renounce Cole and Lou Amundson. We need some lunch pail guys.

Amundsen is a vet min player. Renounce or not, you can have him if you want. Cole is a guy I want back. Shved, if he is coming, is the room exception. Thomas is a vet min player. I think you can have all 4 players... Curious if anyone knows what Cole's cap hold is.

I’m kind of happy about Robin Lopez, and I’m looking forward to rooting for Money Zingis (won’t give up on that one), but I think there is way, way too much optimism about this offseason. Just to put a fine point on it:

The two seemingly small contracts plus options the Knicks gave Afflalo plus Williams are exactly the size of the two contracts that Hinkie took from Sacramento in Landry and Thompson. He not only got a first rounder for that, but he also got two 1st round swap options (which can be hugely valuable) AND Stauskas. What’s amazing about that is that it’s not at all obvious that Afflalo and Derrick Williams are likely to better players than Jason Thompson and Carl Landry over the next two years. And even if they are, it will be meaningless to the Knicks who (1) will be bad this year anyway (2) only have options for year two. These are extremely low benefit moves for a franchise in our position. And the idea that guys like this on one year deals help attract future free agents to the Knicks seems kinda nuts.

The Knicks might now have $20m of 2016 cap space spoken for by Afflalo, Calderon and Williams. They will have another $42m or so take up by Melo, Lopez, and the two rooks. If the cap is $89 million, that would leave ~$27m across 6 slots. This is just to point out that these options and Calderon’s contract are not trivial in the scheme of things. It seems crazy to have been in intense salary dump mode and yet still run a risk of struggling to even get to a $25 million second-tier max salary for Mike Conley. Small, stupid risks add up.

Also… Winslow!

EwingsGlass wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

1	PG	Jerian Grant		        1,310,000
2	SG	Arron Afflalo		        7,800,000
3	SF	Derrick Williams	        4,870,000
4	PF	Carmelo Anthony		       22,875,000
5	C	Robin Lopez		       12,500,000
6		Jose Calderon		        7,400,000
7		Cleanthony Early		  845,000
8		Langston Galloway		  845,000
9		Kristaps Porzingis		3,443,100
10		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
11		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
12		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
13		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
14		Vet Min Exception		
15		Room Exception		

Assumed Cap
$68,000,000

Total Used
63,988,100

Space Remaining
$4,011,900.00

Good breakdown. Also, since the next player will take up the cap hold you can add the 525k to the money remaining.

That's true. Might not be as clear. So, a $4.5m player, the $2.8mm room exception and then DLeague contracts or the Vet Min exceptions. Here is the other side, if they left enough room, they may not have to renounce all their players to make these signings which would let us go over the cap to sign Shved, Aldrich, etc...

They should have to the room for Cole and the other vet min guys but I doubt they will need to go over the cap to sign those guys. If they really want Shved they could even get his rights back if I read it correctly.

Also, they may have more money than the 4.5 if the cap is $69m so it is possible that they might have $5.5m

If the knicks were smart they would see if they can lock C.J. Watson down with the room exception then they could cut or move calderon freeing up more space.

Side note: If the Datome signing is real the figures need to be readjusted.

VCoug wrote:Good comment over on knickerblogger, sums up my opinion:

I’m kind of happy about Robin Lopez, and I’m looking forward to rooting for Money Zingis (won’t give up on that one), but I think there is way, way too much optimism about this offseason. Just to put a fine point on it:

The two seemingly small contracts plus options the Knicks gave Afflalo plus Williams are exactly the size of the two contracts that Hinkie took from Sacramento in Landry and Thompson. He not only got a first rounder for that, but he also got two 1st round swap options (which can be hugely valuable) AND Stauskas. What’s amazing about that is that it’s not at all obvious that Afflalo and Derrick Williams are likely to better players than Jason Thompson and Carl Landry over the next two years. And even if they are, it will be meaningless to the Knicks who (1) will be bad this year anyway (2) only have options for year two. These are extremely low benefit moves for a franchise in our position. And the idea that guys like this on one year deals help attract future free agents to the Knicks seems kinda nuts.

The Knicks might now have $20m of 2016 cap space spoken for by Afflalo, Calderon and Williams. They will have another $42m or so take up by Melo, Lopez, and the two rooks. If the cap is $89 million, that would leave ~$27m across 6 slots. This is just to point out that these options and Calderon’s contract are not trivial in the scheme of things. It seems crazy to have been in intense salary dump mode and yet still run a risk of struggling to even get to a $25 million second-tier max salary for Mike Conley. Small, stupid risks add up.

Also… Winslow!

That's a fair read. Afflalo was clearly brought in to appease Melo,

But the Knicks could have used their cap space as a way to get assets.

Hinkie has done some dumb stuff, but that was a great trade.

Though the player options likely mean Afflalo and Williams will opt out next season, which means we should have in the neighborhood of $35-40M in cap room. If we show a lot of improvement here, guys will come next season

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

1	PG	Jerian Grant		        1,310,000
2	SG	Arron Afflalo		        7,800,000
3	SF	Derrick Williams	        4,870,000
4	PF	Carmelo Anthony		       22,875,000
5	C	Robin Lopez		       12,500,000
6		Jose Calderon		        7,400,000
7		Cleanthony Early		  845,000
8		Langston Galloway		  845,000
9		Kristaps Porzingis		3,443,100
10		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
11		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
12		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
13		Cap Hold - Vet Min Exception	525,000
14		Vet Min Exception		
15		Room Exception		

Assumed Cap
$68,000,000

Total Used
63,988,100

Space Remaining
$4,011,900.00

Good breakdown. Also, since the next player will take up the cap hold you can add the 525k to the money remaining.

That's true. Might not be as clear. So, a $4.5m player, the $2.8mm room exception and then DLeague contracts or the Vet Min exceptions. Here is the other side, if they left enough room, they may not have to renounce all their players to make these signings which would let us go over the cap to sign Shved, Aldrich, etc...

They should have to the room for Cole and the other vet min guys but I doubt they will need to go over the cap to sign those guys. If they really want Shved they could even get his rights back if I read it correctly.

Also, they may have more money than the 4.5 if the cap is $69m so it is possible that they might have $5.5m

If the knicks were smart they would see if they can lock C.J. Watson down with the room exception then they could cut or move calderon freeing up more space.

Side note: If the Datome signing is real the figures need to be readjusted.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/617341611987570688

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CrushAlot wrote:

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wow that is weird

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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wow that is weird

Grant;Caledron;Galloway
Afflalo;(Nobody);Ledo
Melo;Thanasis;Early
KP;D Williams;(Nobody)
Lopez;(Nobody);(Nobody)

Four spots to fill out.
SG Options: KJ Mcdaniels
Reserve PF Options: Labeyrie,Amundson, Jason Smith, Scola
Back up C Options: Gomez, Cole, Ovidijus
Reserve C Options:Cole, Jason Smith, Kendrick Perkins

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/617341611987570688

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wow that is weird

Not really. After the Afflalo and Lopez signings we didn't have anywhere nearly enough cap space to make a legit offer.

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/617341611987570688

Click here to view the Tweet

wow that is weird

Not really. After the Afflalo and Lopez signings we didn't have anywhere nearly enough cap space to make a legit offer.

Yeah, the best they could do if they stretched Calderon is what Orlando gave him so that would have been a waste of time. I still think Tobias will be traded though.

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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wow that is weird

What does it say.

To me it says people knew Orlando would match.

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/617341611987570688

Click here to view the Tweet

wow that is weird

Not really. After the Afflalo and Lopez signings we didn't have anywhere nearly enough cap space to make a legit offer.

Makes sense.

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, after seeing how this offseason went down I would rather have traded with the Kings for Thompson, Stauskas and Landry plus a first rounder and the right to swap 2 future first rounders, and just signed Lopez. Forget Afflalo and Williams.

Sam Hinkie was an assistant and got his first front office job in Houston in 2005. That means, unlike Phil Jackson, Hinkie was able to accrue a decade of front office experience before making the trade with Sacto. Who is a special adviser to Vivek Ranadive, owner of the Kings? Chris Mullin, who was GM of the Warriors way back when Hinkie was making his bones and paying his dues.

Nixluva will rant on and on pointlessly about Phil Jackson does this and Phil Jackson did that. But one thing Phil Jackson does not have is those ingrained built in relationships with agents, scouts and other front office stalwarts around the league, which are critical for making these kind of deals.

Phil Jackson, great head coach, no doubt in anyone's mind.

But as a rookie GM? His learning curve is costing the Knicks assets and opportunity. Just like Vlade Divac will either get burned off the Kings front office or have to learn the hard way from that horrible deal with Philly.

The Knicks current needs simply cannot accommodate the learning curve of a new GM, esp one with such a short lifespan for the team.

Sam Hinkie however is 37 years old. He could give the 76ers a strong 30 years of future GM work if he works out as they hope.

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, after seeing how this offseason went down I would rather have traded with the Kings for Thompson, Stauskas and Landry plus a first rounder and the right to swap 2 future first rounders, and just signed Lopez. Forget Afflalo and Williams.

Sam Hinkie was an assistant and got his first front office job in Houston in 2005. That means, unlike Phil Jackson, Hinkie was able to accrue a decade of front office experience before making the trade with Sacto. Who is a special adviser to Vivek Ranadive, owner of the Kings? Chris Mullin, who was GM of the Warriors way back when Hinkie was making his bones and paying his dues.

Nixluva will rant on and on pointlessly about Phil Jackson does this and Phil Jackson did that. But one thing Phil Jackson does not have is those ingrained built in relationships with agents, scouts and other front office stalwarts around the league, which are critical for making these kind of deals.

Phil Jackson, great head coach, no doubt in anyone's mind.

But as a rookie GM? His learning curve is costing the Knicks assets and opportunity. Just like Vlade Divac will either get burned off the Kings front office or have to learn the hard way from that horrible deal with Philly.

The Knicks current needs simply cannot accommodate the learning curve of a new GM, esp one with such a short lifespan for the team.

Sam Hinkie however is 37 years old. He could give the 76ers a strong 30 years of future GM work if he works out as they hope.

There's more to being a GM than just acquiring picks- he hasn't done a good job using them, nor has he shown any talent for building a team

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, after seeing how this offseason went down I would rather have traded with the Kings for Thompson, Stauskas and Landry plus a first rounder and the right to swap 2 future first rounders, and just signed Lopez. Forget Afflalo and Williams.

Sam Hinkie was an assistant and got his first front office job in Houston in 2005. That means, unlike Phil Jackson, Hinkie was able to accrue a decade of front office experience before making the trade with Sacto. Who is a special adviser to Vivek Ranadive, owner of the Kings? Chris Mullin, who was GM of the Warriors way back when Hinkie was making his bones and paying his dues.

Nixluva will rant on and on pointlessly about Phil Jackson does this and Phil Jackson did that. But one thing Phil Jackson does not have is those ingrained built in relationships with agents, scouts and other front office stalwarts around the league, which are critical for making these kind of deals.

Phil Jackson, great head coach, no doubt in anyone's mind.

But as a rookie GM? His learning curve is costing the Knicks assets and opportunity. Just like Vlade Divac will either get burned off the Kings front office or have to learn the hard way from that horrible deal with Philly.

The Knicks current needs simply cannot accommodate the learning curve of a new GM, esp one with such a short lifespan for the team.

Sam Hinkie however is 37 years old. He could give the 76ers a strong 30 years of future GM work if he works out as they hope.

There's more to being a GM than just acquiring picks- he hasn't done a good job using them, nor has he shown any talent for building a team

A lot of his moves make sense if the end goal was to gut the roster and go young. Even re-signing Makes sense because he'll get assets back.

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, after seeing how this offseason went down I would rather have traded with the Kings for Thompson, Stauskas and Landry plus a first rounder and the right to swap 2 future first rounders, and just signed Lopez. Forget Afflalo and Williams.

Sam Hinkie was an assistant and got his first front office job in Houston in 2005. That means, unlike Phil Jackson, Hinkie was able to accrue a decade of front office experience before making the trade with Sacto. Who is a special adviser to Vivek Ranadive, owner of the Kings? Chris Mullin, who was GM of the Warriors way back when Hinkie was making his bones and paying his dues.

Nixluva will rant on and on pointlessly about Phil Jackson does this and Phil Jackson did that. But one thing Phil Jackson does not have is those ingrained built in relationships with agents, scouts and other front office stalwarts around the league, which are critical for making these kind of deals.

Phil Jackson, great head coach, no doubt in anyone's mind.

But as a rookie GM? His learning curve is costing the Knicks assets and opportunity. Just like Vlade Divac will either get burned off the Kings front office or have to learn the hard way from that horrible deal with Philly.

The Knicks current needs simply cannot accommodate the learning curve of a new GM, esp one with such a short lifespan for the team.

Sam Hinkie however is 37 years old. He could give the 76ers a strong 30 years of future GM work if he works out as they hope.

There's more to being a GM than just acquiring picks- he hasn't done a good job using them, nor has he shown any talent for building a team