Knicks · Will the Knicks defense be just as awful as it was last year? (page 1)

Fischer should try to lure Thibodeau to take over as defensive coach during his break from head coaching. Bulls were always one of better D teams despite having some individuals that werent all that. Could see him maxing Lopez D abilities and pushing kids like Williams .

We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

You got to figure that Lopez and O'quinn if healthy will be guarding the paint so that should help a lot. We'll probably be at the middle of the pack defensively based on that alone. If if 2016 the knicks should look into getting an above average Wing player.

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

I know, right? For the first time in a long-time the team has a culture of play (the triangle) and a team identity (defense first). I think that we are easily a playoff team as constructed (if healthy). That's enough reason to be optimistic moving forward......though I still think we should've dealt Melo to MIA for Justise Winslow and rebuild, lol. But I can certainly get behind this team and enjoy them for what they are and what they can be if we are able to augment them with additional talent come 2016.

I think Phil has brought in enough defense that this team will in no way be a poor defensive team again. There's a toughness to the roster now that wasn't there. There will be resistance given this year and teams won't feel free to just do what they want. We had way more atrocious defenders last year. Being more efficient on offense should help as well. It's gonna take more time and work to really get this team to an elite level defensively but this is a good start to reshaping the roster.

Robin Lopez and Kyle O'Quinn (O'Queens ) is a good start but we need more. I think KP will be a good help defender. His length and quickness will get him a lot of blocks IMO. I think Jerian, Afflalo and Galloway are solid. It'll be interesting to see how Phil fills out the rest of the roster. Most likely he'll add a couple more defensive players along with another scoring guard is my guess.

Much improved. Calderon playing less and all the added size alone will drastically improve our D. Maybe not 10 but top 15? You saw better defense when Galloway, Amundsen & Thomas joined the team

Lets compare from last year
Caledron
Larkin
Priggs
THJR
Shump
JR
Melo
Early
Acy
Wear
Amare
Smith
Bargs
Cole
Off that list. We only had two decent guard defenders and two adequate big/forward defenders
Now we have this
Grant
Afflalo
Galloway
Thanasis
Lopez
Oquinn
We have two more defenders for this season(maybe more), so it will be improved.

At first I thought the defense would be much better based on who we picked up this summer. But, the case could also be made that if Melo starts at PF, Calderon starts at PG and we have another weak defender at SF - we're still pretty weak. I'm really not sure how much better we'll be. So, I wanted to see what everyone else thinks.

The all "awful" answers was an attempt at humor.

We need a mix then..
Caledron/Grant
Afflalo
Melo
KP
Lopez

In situations where we need pure defense, we can put out
Grant
Galloway
Thanasis/Thomas
OQuinn
Lopez

last year the best we could do was
Larkin
Shump
ACY
WEar
Cole

NardDogNation wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

I know, right? For the first time in a long-time the team has a culture of play (the triangle) and a team identity (defense first). I think that we are easily a playoff team as constructed (if healthy). That's enough reason to be optimistic moving forward......though I still think we should've dealt Melo to MIA for Justise Winslow and rebuild, lol. But I can certainly get behind this team and enjoy them for what they are and what they can be if we are able to augment them with additional talent come 2016.

I wasn't against dealing Melo, but would expect a whole lot more than just Winslow (who I'm not sold on.)
Now that we have rebuilt the team with a new identity, I'm really excited/interested to see how Melo does within this system.
If he can't play in it as required then I imagine we trade him to a team he agrees to. If he plays well and limits his ISO's, then it is going to be really fun to watch.
KP and Grant will be more ready next year and we have all that cap space - fun fun.

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

I know, right? For the first time in a long-time the team has a culture of play (the triangle) and a team identity (defense first). I think that we are easily a playoff team as constructed (if healthy). That's enough reason to be optimistic moving forward......though I still think we should've dealt Melo to MIA for Justise Winslow and rebuild, lol. But I can certainly get behind this team and enjoy them for what they are and what they can be if we are able to augment them with additional talent come 2016.

I wasn't against dealing Melo, but would expect a whole lot more than just Winslow (who I'm not sold on.)
Now that we have rebuilt the team with a new identity, I'm really excited/interested to see how Melo does within this system.
If he can't play in it as required then I imagine we trade him to a team he agrees to. If he plays well and limits his ISO's, then it is going to be really fun to watch.
KP and Grant will be more ready next year and we have all that cap space - fun fun.

I like the idea of KP and RoLo starting. Their collective length will really be a deterrent in the paint and our perimeter guys need to funnel their men towards them. Makes me wonder what sort of defensive approach we'll be using next year.

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

I know, right? For the first time in a long-time the team has a culture of play (the triangle) and a team identity (defense first). I think that we are easily a playoff team as constructed (if healthy). That's enough reason to be optimistic moving forward......though I still think we should've dealt Melo to MIA for Justise Winslow and rebuild, lol. But I can certainly get behind this team and enjoy them for what they are and what they can be if we are able to augment them with additional talent come 2016.

I wasn't against dealing Melo, but would expect a whole lot more than just Winslow (who I'm not sold on.)
Now that we have rebuilt the team with a new identity, I'm really excited/interested to see how Melo does within this system.
If he can't play in it as required then I imagine we trade him to a team he agrees to. If he plays well and limits his ISO's, then it is going to be really fun to watch.
KP and Grant will be more ready next year and we have all that cap space - fun fun.

I like the idea of KP and RoLo starting. Their collective length will really be a deterrent in the paint and our perimeter guys need to funnel their men towards them. Makes me wonder what sort of defensive approach we'll be using next year.

I don't expect KP to be a good defensive player this year. If that happened it would be great, but it's a lot to ask. As long as he improves his defense between the beginning and end of the year I'll be happy.

Just as awful.

of course better. It would almost be impossible to not be better.

Melonoma wrote:Just as awful.

Why?

Until the D.Fisher's , Kurt Rambis and Jimmy Cleamons not only get skillset players for D'
but TEACH it, I think you cant expect that yet other than from 4 spot Robin Lopez ..his experience
at least gives a chance to be slightly better on Defender end teamwise.

Other than that I hold defense entirely to Derrick Fisher coaching staff
and I am not yet impressed by DFish as a coach , we need to find what Knicks "Identity" will be built toward
outside the fre_aking Triangle Offense.

Thus that is my huge issue with Fisher, we need identity and since he is knicks floor boss/coach
I do not know what he's trying to accomplish teamwise or individually, whether PG play , Zone or man to man defense.

Fisher needs lots of seasoning. He got a few players lets see what that's about!

OldFan wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:We'll be one of the top 15 defensive teams in the league, which would be a radically improvement. I am concerned about how we'll be able to score the ball outside of Melo though. So much hinges on Afflalo re-discovering his Orlando form and on Derrick Williams having a coming out party.

I don't actually get this thread???
We now have an arguably a team that will be around 10-15 in defense, or better - I wouldn't be shocked at all to seem much better. I don't think we will ever touch another team as bad as last years...

I know, right? For the first time in a long-time the team has a culture of play (the triangle) and a team identity (defense first). I think that we are easily a playoff team as constructed (if healthy). That's enough reason to be optimistic moving forward......though I still think we should've dealt Melo to MIA for Justise Winslow and rebuild, lol. But I can certainly get behind this team and enjoy them for what they are and what they can be if we are able to augment them with additional talent come 2016.

I wasn't against dealing Melo, but would expect a whole lot more than just Winslow (who I'm not sold on.)
Now that we have rebuilt the team with a new identity, I'm really excited/interested to see how Melo does within this system.
If he can't play in it as required then I imagine we trade him to a team he agrees to. If he plays well and limits his ISO's, then it is going to be really fun to watch.
KP and Grant will be more ready next year and we have all that cap space - fun fun.

I like the idea of KP and RoLo starting. Their collective length will really be a deterrent in the paint and our perimeter guys need to funnel their men towards them. Makes me wonder what sort of defensive approach we'll be using next year.

I don't expect KP to be a good defensive player this year. If that happened it would be great, but it's a lot to ask. As long as he improves his defense between the beginning and end of the year I'll be happy.

KP needs to learn proper NBA level D but he's 7'3" with long arms. He's gonna get blocks just by accident. I'm not so worried about him on D. I think this team can really be good defensively with the added length and mobility we have now. With KP and RoLo starting it would give us some serious length and help D. Analysts aren't really thinking about how this team could look defensively but I like what Phil has done so far. He's not done yet but this is a good start.

KP is 7'3 but he's either going to be covering bigs who are much stronger than him or smalls who are much faster, both are going to be more experienced. Most rookies have trouble with defense. KP is 19 and lacks strength. I think expecting him to be a plus defensive player as a rookie or even average is expecting a lot. I expect him to start the season as a sub par defensive player and hopefully start figuring it out as the year goes on.

I hope you're right, but I don't see it.

OldFan wrote:KP is 7'3 but he's either going to be covering bigs who are much stronger than him or smalls who are much faster, both are going to be more experienced. Most rookies have trouble with defense. KP is 19 and lacks strength. I think expecting him to be a plus defensive player as a rookie or even average is expecting a lot. I expect him to start the season as a sub par defensive player and hopefully start figuring it out as the year goes on.

I hope you're right, but I don't see it.

of course he will struggle as a rookie

Leaving out D League players besides Thabeet

Some veterans to consider for vet min include
maybe non guaranteed or partial guarantees for some

PF/C
=========

Joel Freeland/Kevin Serephin - good midrange game, solid defenders, and rebounders on our bench

Scola

Do we go after Lou Amundson who has experience and works hard on and off the court, or acquire players that are younger and are looking to contribute on a higher level?
Not sure what AB is looking for and what the market is willing to pay for his serves with Byron Mullons for stretch 4/5's

Mirza Televic

Jason Maxiell

McGee/Thabeet

Joel Anthony *was a solid backup SHOT BLOCKER/REBOUNDER last season in very limited minutes*

Bernard James - knows his role as a rebounder/defender in limited minutes and served in the Army for a couple years, was waived and brought back a couple times to the Mavs the past couple seasons
Greg Smith he was solid a couple years back before his knee surgery as a undersized PF/C that could rebound/block shots/defend and finish at the rim

Unguaranteed/partial guarantees
======================================

Larry Sanders for great value who is being payed by The Bucks, but for the vet min and unguaranteed/partial guarantee, can't get much better

Greg Oden/OK4 *the one drafted after D12*/McGee

Edoh, playing last year for the Clippers, however, outside of his first 2 seasons on GS, he has not had much of a role since then since 2011/12 season
Was once a shot blocker/rebounder with good mobility/athleticism on the bench, not sure if he can regain that form but would need a partial/unguaranteed contract

Amare??

Jermaine Oneil for veteran experience and still contributed on a high level 2 seasons ago on GS when Bogut went down

SG/SF
=========

FOR WESLEY JOHNSON and JEREMY EVANS, if Jordan can take back to offer to with Clippers, then I would try to acquire them on vet min deals, maybe even multiyear deals 2-3year contracts as incentives

Wesley Johnson, agreed to a vet min deal to stay in LA but with The Clippers, think he would help Thanasis develop/mentor him as they have similiar skill sets

Jeremy Evans, agreed to 2year vet min deal to Dallas,

Rasual Butler played well last season with good size/length/athleticism on The Wizards filling in for Bradly Beals injury and was very effective

Xavier Henry

Carlos Delfino

Bill Walker *think he has a team option with Heat and played well for them last season*
Beasley

SG
=====

Marcus Thorton *the veteran*

Wayne Ellington

SF/PF, SF
===============

unguaranteed deals

Prince

Shawnee Williams

Rashard Lewis

Jeff Adrien

Jeffery Taylor

PG, PG/SG
=================

Andre Miller, if we want Grant to work on his POST GAME

Daniel Hackett *would much prefer we sign him to a multiyear deal, at 6-6, PG/SG he could play a role similar to Ron Harper/Livingston, he can post up/penetrate and finish/ facilitate/ hit the wide open 3pter/ and is a very solid defender, most importantly is a LEGIT PG and SG that can play on and off the ball to compliment Calderon/Galloway as well help the development of Grant
He use to shoot with his right hand and switched himself to a lefty, opposite of Triston Thompson, and is ambidextrous now to finish with both hands
Not sure what happened to him, who was suppose to work out/audition for us and thought was going to play in our Summer League, I really like him and hope he at least gets a training camp offer, though I think he would fit in this system very well with his size/defense/versatility to initiate our OFFENSE with POST UP abilities and penetration, while being able to defend both PG and SG, like Livingston but could hit the 3pt shot

Ish Smith *without the ball* one of the fastest/quickest players in the ENTIRE NBA, and played well for Philly late last year as the starting PG and was a journey man throughout his entire career

Donald Sloan

Ronnie Price/AJ Price