Knicks · Kentucky bigs have not been good (page 2)

BRIGGS wrote:I have to wonder if some over reliance on their size able teammates might've been an actual dentriment? Trey lyles who I think some here liked even some of the Knicks decision makers who had some say has been brutal. Hasn't rebounded played poor d hasn't shot well can't hit fts. On the other hands guys who were the man so to speak have played well like Portis The best players from Kentucky have easily been the Harrison's

You guys do realize that this is the summer league and these kids are just starting their careers right?? I mean some of you are already predicting how these KIDS will be in the summer league.....the summer league,,,,,it's the summer league and if you haven't heard yet.......it's the summer league. lol

of course, im not trying to knock them. just reporting what i saw. its just a reminder that these kids are RAW. after the games, you would see their parents consoling them. like these kids are basically one yr removed from HS. theyre not a completed project or even a full grown adult

BRIGGS wrote:I have to wonder if some over reliance on their size able teammates might've been an actual dentriment? Trey lyles who I think some here liked even some of the Knicks decision makers who had some say has been brutal. Hasn't rebounded played poor d hasn't shot well can't hit fts. On the other hands guys who were the man so to speak have played well like Portis The best players from Kentucky have easily been the Harrison's

They're rookies.

Amidst your "Can't Miss" and "Bust Potential = Zero" and "25/14/6 Easy" mantras, rookies actually need to develop, hit a rookie wall, struggle to get ref calls, have to acclimate to the difference in speed, schedule and contact between college and the pros. For many, this opportunity in the NBA is the first time in their lives they are asked NOT to be the primary scorer/ball handler on their team.

You've got this bizarre Larry Brown thing going on where the only thing that matters is the last three days, and everything else, including context, is simply seen as non relevant data.

WaltLongmire wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lyles was never a good rebounder/defender. When he guarded 3's he was too slow, got pushed around by bigs and would nod off all the time.

2/10 from the field...0/3 from the 3...4/11 from the FT line...

Is he really this bad of a shooter??

It's one game

meloshouldgo wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lyles was never a good rebounder/defender. When he guarded 3's he was too slow, got pushed around by bigs and would nod off all the time.

2/10 from the field...0/3 from the 3...4/11 from the FT line...

Is he really this bad of a shooter??

It's one game

if the games are played in the same gym as the knicks played yesterday, i thought those rims were very tight.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lyles was never a good rebounder/defender. When he guarded 3's he was too slow, got pushed around by bigs and would nod off all the time.

2/10 from the field...0/3 from the 3...4/11 from the FT line...

Is he really this bad of a shooter??

just one game. Im sure nerves are a factor. Plus its just summer league. Im not ready to claim anything on any of the top draft picks until we get into the season

voice of reason

i try. i wasnt a fan of lyles anyway but the kid just started so any kind of judgment is premature.

No premature judgement...completely understand, but Lyles seemed to have had a cult following as the draft moved along.
The FT shooting is most problematic, but in 2 games he is 5/19 from the field and 8/17 from the FT line.

My rule of thumb for watching rookies, especially as early as SL, is to make special note of the good things they do, especially if they're done the right way, and try to take a more balanced look at the their weaknesses, and determine whether they are due to nerves, being out of shape, lack of ease in a new system, etc., and not because of some significant mechanical or BB IQ issue. You also look at their past history- If a guy who is known for a great jumper is not hitting shots in SL, or a guy known for his passing is not using the judgement he showed in college, I don't get worried.

I would be more worried about players with known flaws prior to the draft who continue to show them in SL, or a guy like Lyles, who was under the radar in many ways, getting all the hype he got before the draft, without actually having proved himself as a bit time player.

Briggs' thread is about his belief that the Kentucky bigs were part of an amazing system that covered up many of their flaws and highlighted their strengths, and that maybe they are not as good as players who were the main focus of opposing defenses whenever they played a college game.

But premature judgement can go both ways...StarksEwing1...it took you one single SL game to declare: Winslow was definetly a steal falling to 10. Maybe he will be, but he has also shown some significant flaws as a player, especially as a shooter, and then you see this in the SL box score for yesterday-DND - GENERAL SORENESS, and you realize that in the past 3 games he's played about 7 minutes of ball, and in the entire SL he's maybe hit about 1 jumper. For me, he has not exceeded expectations, and is actually showing some significant flaws in his game that will be exploited if he doesn't make adjustments.

Kaminsky, Turner, and Johnson might be seen as the "steals" of the draft, at least if you look at the results so far, and maybe Portis will be in that category, but who knows.

i have said winslow was a steal since draft....and im nota the only one. Many nba scouts, players, and people with more knowledge than me said winslow dropping to 10 was a gift since he was projected in top 6

Busting your chops, a bit...but maybe he was actually drafted at the right spot...or maybe even a bit too soon. Do you think that Indiana would want him over Turner at this point? Would Detroit take him over Johnson (something I thought they should have done on draft night) now that they have played a few games? Maybe Portis proves to be the better player in the long run...who knows. In my mind, though, there is some doubt about whether he was a steal, or more of a 10-15 spot pick at this time.

I do know this, though, my biggest issue with Winslow was his shooting, and so far, this has been backed up by his performances in SL. DraftExpress put out those terrible off the dribble stats he had at Duke, and so far that has been an issue. He is also shooting a much longer 3, and at least until now, he has not mastered it. They've let him play the Lebron top of the key do your stuff thing in SL, and he has had some moments, but he will be of limited use if he can't hit a pull-up jumper now and then.

I've said this a number of times, now. I don't think Winslow or OK4 prepared well for the draft workouts, and it showed when they dropped down below where many expected them to be drafted.

Briggs' idea about Kentucky might apply to any team with a lot of talent- Duke had some very good complimentary players to go along with Winslow and OK4- and maybe some of their weaknesses were masked a bit.

Wow:

Silver Announces cancellation of the nba for the foreseeable future

Silver shocked the basketball world last night when he announced the cancellation of not just the upcoming nba season, but the following Three. "After watching one or two summer league games, I saw all I needed to see- the next 3 years will tell us nothing we don't already know".

Basketball pundits applauded the move. Jerry West explained "in the past players would take several years to improve and develop before you could fully evaluate them. Now thanks to the advent of summer league games being broadcast on tv and the internet, we can now fully determine a players ceiling in 1 to 2 games.".

Not everyone shared enthusiasm for the move, however. Number one pick Karl Anthony Towns tried to hold back the tears as he told us, "My career is over". Silver explained that he was willing to make one important exemption. "Kaminsky" he stated, "...he also started off a little shaky, but different standards apply to him- he will be allowed to play without being judged for the next 5 years."

Ronda Hollis-Jefferson has looked good. Feels like a lefty Tony Allen but his offense has been much better than I thought

smackeddog wrote:Wow:

Silver Announces cancellation of the nba for the foreseeable future

Silver shocked the basketball world last night when he announced the cancellation of not just the upcoming nba season, but the following Three. "After watching one or two summer league games, I saw all I needed to see- the next 3 years will tell us nothing we don't already know".

Basketball pundits applauded the move. Jerry West explained "in the past players would take several years to improve and develop before you could fully evaluate them. Now thanks to the advent of summer league games being broadcast on tv and the internet, we can now fully determine a players ceiling in 1 to 2 games.".

Not everyone shared enthusiasm for the move, however. Number one pick Karl Anthony Towns tried to hold back the tears as he told us, "My career is over". Silver explained that he was willing to make one important exemption. "Kaminsky" he stated, "...he also started off a little shaky, but different standards apply to him- he will be allowed to play without being judged for the next 5 years."

Understand completely where you are coming from, but we all try to prognosticate with even the scantiest amount of info or visual evidence.

I think Briggs' premise is an interesting one, no matter how the thread has "devolved" in your opinion (and it probably has).

Funny that you mention Kaminsky, because prior to the draft he was a guy who was an object of scorn for some on this forum, who never felt he was worthy of being picked in the top 10.

Also funny that Jackson was derided throughout the media when he talked about needing a few years to determine how good a pick KP was.

I agree with the time/growth/experience factor you refer to, but it does not seem like a popular thing around here, and throughout the NBA in general.

fitzfarm wrote:Yea I like towns potential but being on a team like Kentucky, nba teams and fans seem to over value them... I viewed towns as a lottery pick but it's pretty risky drafting on potential he's not bust material but could be disappointing in terms of stardom ..I view him as a good player with 2 or three years experience.

he's nba size, athletic,nice touch, can rebound when he wants. But to pick him first when he only averaged 11 a game and looked disinterested and lackadaisical at times ..

Derrick Coleman had all the ability just not the desire to be the star he could have been . I worry that towns might become the new age DC

The only low risk pick was OK4.....Everybody else was a high risk. Thats the problem when the 1st round is filled with freshmens. That wasn't the case back in the days, but thats where we are at right now! So it's a crap shoot. KP the biggest risk of them all, and he looks legit.

bobby portis was 1-10 yesterday. with that said, it's been two games of summer league, aka, let's calm down.

ESPN showed a long list of the first 2 picks in the NBA draft, one of them will seemingly be a complete bust, or just fall super short of their potential

nyk4ever wrote:bobby portis was 1-10 yesterday. with that said, it's been two games of summer league, aka, let's calm down.

I thought about mentioning this last night, too, after I looked at Chicago's box score.

One thing to say about SL performances.

Many times you are looking to confirm things you've heard about a player, especially his weaknesses, as you watch SL play.

I wouldn't worry about an 85% FT shooter in college who shoots 60% in his first SL season, or the outside shooting of a guy like Russell, who you know will come up to his norm in that particular area of his game.

But there are players who came into the SL with well documented question marks about their games, and when the weaknesses they showed in college or international ball are replicated in SL, you have to take note of them. You can't extrapolate and say that they are never going to be able to address those weaknesses, but it does give you reason to look at their games a little more closely.

Some on this forum have commented on Russell's ability to go right, and his lack of penetration ability against quicker defenders, so in tonight's game that's something I'll be monitoring, and I'll also be looking at his D, but I'm not going to pay any attention to open Js he misses, or some ill advised passes, because they are not on the "questions list" for Russell.

One of our players, Thanasis, had a poor game the other day. Do you think people are wrong to express concern about his progress as a player after playing only 1 game? We know he can play D and hustle, but did he show us anything on the offensive end that would make you say he's progressed?

Maybe he hits 5 3s today...now we are looking at him differently, but if he comes out unwilling to take a jumper, or does not make them, and his FT shooting is terrible, are you willing to simply dismiss his performance based on the questions we all have about his game?