Knicks · NDour signs with Dallas :( (page 9)

so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

Thank you. Agreed..

WaltLongmire wrote:Am I wrong to be thinking like this about the contract Ndour got with the Mavs?:

Ndour getting a second year with partially guaranteed $$ pretty much means that he will be on the Mavs for the second year because they don't want to waste the money, and I expect Ndour will show enough to be kept on the roster, anyway. Strangely enough, though, unless Ndour has a player option for year 3, if he is good enough to keep after the 2nd year, Dallas is getting the bargain, and Ndour would be potentially losing some money instead of being able to search for more from another team.

Look at it like Ledo or Gallo, their contracts are partially guaranteed and Ledo is very expendable. It's a 200k loss in a rising cap year. If it works out cool but if N'dour is not the player you want bye bye.

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

Seems like that. Why even have a summer league if you are just going to ignore the results? It's not N'Dour's fault that it's only four games. That's by design, the kid did everything he could to earn a spot and we just let him go? Seriously crappy move.

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

yellowboy90 wrote:if it was just about being the best fit for N'dour you put the money up to match and then let him make his choice. You can't use the "better fit" out when the money is not equal.

And likewise you can't prove that if the money was equal he would have chosen NY- it works both ways. Take a step back for a minute and forget your a Knick fan- honestly what team would you have chosen?

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Well that would be thinking logically and some aren't able to do that. LOL

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Lin went with the money too, left the system behind and now look at him. Not saying that happens to Ndour but he had a good thing here. Playing time, perhaps, shouldn't be #1.
Like Ndour better than the recent DPOY we signed as Ndour can shoot well and has better size/frame.

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Lin went with the money too, left the system behind and now look at him. Not saying that happens to Ndour but he had a good thing here. Playing time, perhaps, shouldn't be #1.
Like Ndour better than the recent DPOY we signed as Ndour can shoot well and has better size/frame.

I think I like Ndour better than Atkins as well and for those very reasons although to be fair I need to see more of Atkins to really make a final determination. I also don't look at this like Ndour left us high and dry for the Mavs. The kid said he liked it here, liked playing with the guys we had in SL and liked being a Knick...THE KNICKS CHOSE not to offer him a more competitive contract (when we had the ability to do so I might add), chose not to match what Cuban gave him (and I'd be willing to bet Phil was given an opportunity to do so--can't picture Ndour and his agent not going back to Phil with an opportunity to match the offer they got. Maybe, but I can't picture it). And I'd argue, quite sanely, that there's a recent pattern of lowballing players here--Greg Monroe, Alexey Shved and now Ndour.. What are ya gonna do? Ndour's under the bridge now. No longer our player..I wish him well. Very interested to see what he becomes -- I see a quality impact player eventually. We'll see..

Finestrg wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Lin went with the money too, left the system behind and now look at him. Not saying that happens to Ndour but he had a good thing here. Playing time, perhaps, shouldn't be #1.
Like Ndour better than the recent DPOY we signed as Ndour can shoot well and has better size/frame.

I think I like Ndour better than Atkins as well and for those very reasons although to be fair I need to see more of Atkins to really make a final determination. I also don't look at this like Ndour left us high and dry for the Mavs. The kid said he liked it here, liked playing with the guys we had in SL and liked being a Knick...THE KNICKS CHOSE not to offer him a more competitive contract (when we had the ability to do so I might add), chose not to match what Cuban gave him (and I'd be willing to bet Phil was given an opportunity to do so--can't picture Ndour and his agent not going back to Phil with an opportunity to match the offer they got. Maybe, but I can't picture it). And I'd argue, quite sanely, that there's a recent pattern of lowballing players here--Greg Monroe, Alexey Shved and now Ndour.. What are ya gonna do? Ndour's under the bridge now. No longer our player..I wish him well. Very interested to see what he becomes -- I see a quality impact player eventually. We'll see..

Hahahahahahaha

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Lin went with the money too, left the system behind and now look at him. Not saying that happens to Ndour but he had a good thing here. Playing time, perhaps, shouldn't be #1.
Like Ndour better than the recent DPOY we signed as Ndour can shoot well and has better size/frame.

I think I like Ndour better than Atkins as well and for those very reasons although to be fair I need to see more of Atkins to really make a final determination. I also don't look at this like Ndour left us high and dry for the Mavs. The kid said he liked it here, liked playing with the guys we had in SL and liked being a Knick...THE KNICKS CHOSE not to offer him a more competitive contract (when we had the ability to do so I might add), chose not to match what Cuban gave him (and I'd be willing to bet Phil was given an opportunity to do so--can't picture Ndour and his agent not going back to Phil with an opportunity to match the offer they got. Maybe, but I can't picture it). And I'd argue, quite sanely, that there's a recent pattern of lowballing players here--Greg Monroe, Alexey Shved and now Ndour.. What are ya gonna do? Ndour's under the bridge now. No longer our player..I wish him well. Very interested to see what he becomes -- I see a quality impact player eventually. We'll see..

Hahahahahahaha

yup..
so far the Knicks have let slip away:
NDour (Ben Wallace)
Tim Chuckaway JR (Reggie Miller)
Jeremy Tyler (young Carlos Boozer)

The list keeps going on and on. More to come Im sure

fishmike wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

helloharv wrote:so we chose two older D league level guys over a young player with energy and upside? that should never ever happen when you finish with 17 wins

No, NDour chose to go to the Mavs- why do some of you find it so hard to get your heads round this concept of a player choosing another team over us? Why must it always be managerial incompetence that we didn't MAKE a player sign with us? If I were him I would have chosen the Mavs too- cheaper to live there and a lot more playing time.

Lin went with the money too, left the system behind and now look at him. Not saying that happens to Ndour but he had a good thing here. Playing time, perhaps, shouldn't be #1.
Like Ndour better than the recent DPOY we signed as Ndour can shoot well and has better size/frame.

I think I like Ndour better than Atkins as well and for those very reasons although to be fair I need to see more of Atkins to really make a final determination. I also don't look at this like Ndour left us high and dry for the Mavs. The kid said he liked it here, liked playing with the guys we had in SL and liked being a Knick...THE KNICKS CHOSE not to offer him a more competitive contract (when we had the ability to do so I might add), chose not to match what Cuban gave him (and I'd be willing to bet Phil was given an opportunity to do so--can't picture Ndour and his agent not going back to Phil with an opportunity to match the offer they got. Maybe, but I can't picture it). And I'd argue, quite sanely, that there's a recent pattern of lowballing players here--Greg Monroe, Alexey Shved and now Ndour.. What are ya gonna do? Ndour's under the bridge now. No longer our player..I wish him well. Very interested to see what he becomes -- I see a quality impact player eventually. We'll see..

Hahahahahahaha

yup..
so far the Knicks have let slip away:
NDour (Ben Wallace)
Tim Chuckaway JR (Reggie Miller)
Jeremy Tyler (young Carlos Boozer)

The list keeps going on and on. More to come Im sure

We didn't sign ndour just the way it goes .The results count with wins and losses-- that's it.

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Fish do you think it was a smart move to overpay for two NBA journeyman right before summer where we had a wide variety of players who could have shined and brought the same level of intensity. I said it many times that there was a possibility either thanasis, ndour, or labeyrie would play really well and show a lot of potential. Funny thing is that all three of those players are known hardworking players and give it there all for the sake of th r team and play sf or pf, much like amundson and thomas. fishmike, don't get me wrong, I think there is value for for players like those so that they can have a positive influence on our culture here, but it never really made sense getting the two of them back here at the same time.

I actually like the Lou/Lance signings. I think you need balance. The best teams always do.

Look at the prospects on the roster next year:
Galloway, KP, Grant, Early, Ledo (partial), Thanasis (promise?)

Then you have Derrick Williams and Quinn who are 24 and 25 and signed for upside, but are still young, cheap players the Knicks are hoping to build on or build up.

So your looking at 8 guys, who are either pure prospects or unproven young pros with talent whom we are looking to develop. 8 guys is a lot of roster to dedicate to players that (loosely) can be considered prospects.

Vets:
Melo, Lopez, Afflalo, Calderon

And of those vets only two have played in this system, and Melo and Jose were both hurt for more than half the year.

So I 100% endorse those signings and believe they make sense. Those guys wont get many minutes I suspect but they know the system, they defend, the know where to be on the floor and they have shown at times they can play above their talent level, and most of all the coaching staff and FO trust them and want these type of guys around.

assuming we Thanasis and Ledo both make the roster we still have a spot for a guy who slips through the cracks.

You need balance. Thats a fact. You and some may disagree and if thats the case fine. Ive played on a lot of sports teams, and Ive played on teams where 2/3 of the roster are new guys who are learning a system etc and its too many. The lack of stability and knowledge of the system hurts everyone. These young guys and these coaches need a few lunch pale guys THAT KNOW THE SYSTEM. Its not about the role... these guys are most likely short term or will be end of the bench Luke Walton teacher pet types. You dont think those guys are important? Every good team and every established system has them.

guys screaming about some end of the bench guy being a better choice than crappy old Lance and Lou just dont get it. Its not nintendo. These are men with jobs to do. Lou and Lance already know their jobs. They also be effective players next to more talented guys. A guy like Lou is going to look great next to Melo and KP. Its when you ask him to give you 15ppg and 10rebs in 35 minutes a night when he's going to get exposed. Thats not fair or what he was signed for.

you make salient points but if we want to become a class organization and a perennially viable contender like san antonio, then you have to develop a deeper rotation like san antonio has. they have adapted beautifully to the 82-game grind, lengthening careers. nobody should be playing more than 32 minutes a game, just like their last season.

32 minutes max requires a deeper bench and deft managing skills so the pressure would be even more on fisher and his assistants.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:What did Cuban give him? Anyone know??

I can't find anything. It sounds like training camp invites with partial guarantees but the Mavs guaranteed more money. Not sure though. It also sounds like he had a better shot of making the 15 man roster in Dallas.

I can't find much either. This has a little insight:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...

I get the same feeling -- we're talking a TC invite offer with more guaranteed money. Doesn't even sound like it was a automatic roster spot type of deal...Also sounds to me like we lowballed yet another player, the first being Shved. So frustrating. I mean WTF are they doing????!!!!??? Offer A TOP TC offer!! Why nickel and dime the guy??? How do you let Cuban come in a steal this player away with a better TC offer? WTF is that shit?? It's laughable.

Shved got more money than the Knicks could possibly have offered him. And it seemed like he wanted to go back to Europe, Russia specifically.

How can you say that? You don't see what happened here dude? Come on--read between the lines -- If we would've said to this guy, "Alexey, JOB WELL DONE, brah! We want you back. No question about it--as soon as we sign the bulk of our outside FAs, we'll be at the cap and can use the room exception of 2.8mm--we want to use it on you"! If we had approached him like that, he'd still be here. I'd bet any amount of money on it. I bet we never approached him like that--I don't think we professed any excitement over bringing him back at all and lowballed him with a vet minimum offer and never budged off it. I get the feeling that's how Phil conducts business -- meanwhile, a guy like Cuban comes across as much more enthusiastic and adamant about getting what he wants. And guess what--that's how ya gotta be!!! I mean look at the Greg Monroe shit, how we didn't offer him a max contract (which I firmly believe btw). That dude was only linked to us for months. Midnight rolls around on the 1st day of FA and we don't offer him a max offer? WTF was that about?? This dude could've been a 20/10 rock inside for us for years to come.. I don't think we made the necessary, proper offer...Now reports are surfacing that we were looking to force the C spot on LaMarcus Aldridge and that we cancelled the meeting? Can you believe that shit?? Worked out Elliot Williams, a guard with versatility and plenty of talent to get back in the NBA, we have a dire need for backcourt depth and haven't made an offer as of yet (I think we would've heard if we did, even if one was rejected). My bet is we failed to make the man an offer or lowballed yet another guy...I firmly believe we had a chance to sign JaMychal Green last year and fucked that up too. Now Ndour -- I mean we lost this guy over a better fucking TC offer? WOW...Anyone else see a pattern here??

How do you know that they didn't say exactly that to Shved?

Don't you know how he knows?? He reads between the lines. Lol

Dude honestly, slip on a fucking banana peel and break your fucking neck already. I've seen my share of assholes on this forum but you my friend are the biggest dickhead so far. Consider yourself on ignore mode from here on in as soon as I can manage how to use that feature.

EDIT: Done. That was easy. A shame it had to come to something like that. Been posting on here for a long time--never even thought about using that feature on anyone. Never necessary--I actually care what others have to say around here. But man, I HAVE NEVER seen a more pompous asshole who's gone out of his way to antagonize and deliberately cause trouble on purpose like this jerkoff. Come on--3, 4, 5 posts in a row??? LOL...Supposed to be about basketball--some losers decide to get personal and take jabs but never on the level of this mo-mo. And I hide behind my keyboard?? Man, is that a hoot too. Wow.

You just haven't had anyone be honest and call you out for the dumb crap you spit out of your mouth and i'm the guy that will do it. If you dont saY dumb stuff and don't try acting like you know more than you do then I would have no reason to call you out or anyone else that does the same crap. If you post stuff that are logical and not dumb i'll be the first to agree or compliment what you say but when you don't then I won't. It's too bad you can't handle someone calling you out but when you grow up you'll learn how to handle it......hopefully. bye bye felicia.

C(newyork) give it a rest man. Breaking peoples cahones tisk tisk no need for it--you try it all the time on me but I actually know who you are and it means nothing believe me. Why are you wasting your time here anyway?

Who's wasting time?? I'm just fine and I think it's pretty obvious that when it comes to my Knicks that I know what i'm taliking about. I'm a very honest person and i'm not just a regular fan of the Knicks or any of my teams i'm a die hard and when people do nothing but hate on everything the Knicks do and act like they could do the job that a NBA GM does no matter who that GM is it gets on my nerves because there's no way they can. Those people act like it's a simple job and like they know what goes into doing the job of a GM and they think they know all this from what they see on the dang Internet which is hilarious. Being a GM is a tiring job and it's a nonstop job all year long but these people think and act like it's so simple to do everything a GM has to do. If you or anyone can't handle the hard truth that i'm gonna say then put me on ignore cause I couldn't care less cause i'm not on here to make anyone happy i'm on here to talk with other true Knicks fans about the Knicks.

No one is saying this is an easy job. I thought Steven a Smith sounded like the biggest arsehole I have ever heard on draft night felt bad forkp and he inflamed knick fans not necessary and sounded like carenlo facilitated his diatribe. As far as Phil I think most fans are behind him but he took a position that can be criticized and that is that

he admitted failure. to keep complaining after he essentially apologized is essentially bitchy. ergo stephen a. smith is a bitch. and if melo is behind the diatribe then oh my goodness melo's a bitch by proxy.

Im not a big fan of bringing up old threads, but I cant remember a situation where more guys on this board went full tilt over losing an end of the bench player.

Oh... and by the way... NDour was cut.

Grab him right now on a D-League deal, hurt 'n all. He's made more guaranteed money than most players in his shoes. He'll accept our offer--he'd probably appreciate the love. Allow him to rehab with the Westchester Knicks. When he's 100%, he's a better player than Lance Thomas and Lou Amundson for next year. Maybe even later on this season. I'd love to see us think a few steps ahead. That's how I feel about adding Jabari Brown and/or Bryce Cotton to the NBA roster right now.

fishmike wrote:Im not a big fan of bringing up old threads, but I cant remember a situation where more guys on this board went full tilt over losing an end of the bench player.

Oh... and by the way... NDour was cut.

He was supposedly in good shape to make their team til he got injured.

from the thread about guys being waived:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The Mavs just waived a very promising young player called NDour- I remember reading on some forums over the summer that he was a future star who should be offered 2 to 3 years guaranteed.

He earned a training camp contract based on his play in SL, and maybe the kind of deal we gave Trice, Atkins, and Saunders...maybe a little more, in fact, so that he could make enough $$ playing on our DL team if he got cut in TC.

Edit...

From Bobby Marks on Twitter: Some of this is confusing.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/658718616934854656

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Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/658729391778852864

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Thought this was interesting - didn't realize the Knicks tried to get NDour to pull a Deandre?

Mavericks forward Maurice Ndour suffered a stress reaction in his left leg and he will be sidelined indefinitely.
It's a tough blow for Ndour because he had a strong showing at training camp. Ndour wasn't expected to be in the rotation and this could mean that his roster spot is in jeopardy.
Source: Shams Charania on Twitter Oct 18 - 2:42 PM

Maurice Ndour - F - Mavericks
The Knicks reportedly tried to change Maurice Ndour's mind about signing with the Mavericks.
Well, this isn't another DeAndre Jordan saga by any means, but it just goes to show that verbal agreements clearly don't mean as much anymore. Ndour would not break his verbal agreement with the Mavericks, but he would welcome a return to New York if things don't work out with in Dallas during training camp.

crzymdups wrote:Thought this was interesting - didn't realize the Knicks tried to get NDour to pull a Deandre?

Mavericks forward Maurice Ndour suffered a stress reaction in his left leg and he will be sidelined indefinitely.
It's a tough blow for Ndour because he had a strong showing at training camp. Ndour wasn't expected to be in the rotation and this could mean that his roster spot is in jeopardy.
Source: Shams Charania on Twitter Oct 18 - 2:42 PM

Maurice Ndour - F - Mavericks
The Knicks reportedly tried to change Maurice Ndour's mind about signing with the Mavericks.
Well, this isn't another DeAndre Jordan saga by any means, but it just goes to show that verbal agreements clearly don't mean as much anymore. Ndour would not break his verbal agreement with the Mavericks, but he would welcome a return to New York if things don't work out with in Dallas during training camp.

When you keep your options open as long as you can the luck will be on your side.
It was no need to rush this guy in... who is he?
Now we have this money for somebody else.

crzymdups wrote:Thought this was interesting - didn't realize the Knicks tried to get NDour to pull a Deandre?

Mavericks forward Maurice Ndour suffered a stress reaction in his left leg and he will be sidelined indefinitely.
It's a tough blow for Ndour because he had a strong showing at training camp. Ndour wasn't expected to be in the rotation and this could mean that his roster spot is in jeopardy.
Source: Shams Charania on Twitter Oct 18 - 2:42 PM

Maurice Ndour - F - Mavericks
The Knicks reportedly tried to change Maurice Ndour's mind about signing with the Mavericks.
Well, this isn't another DeAndre Jordan saga by any means, but it just goes to show that verbal agreements clearly don't mean as much anymore. Ndour would not break his verbal agreement with the Mavericks, but he would welcome a return to New York if things don't work out with in Dallas during training camp.

If you want to look at decisions, consequences, altered realities, etc., you can make a case that if Ndour had signed with the Knicks he might have had less money, but not be injured in the way he was.

He seemed to be a good fit, and looked pretty comfortable in our offense, but he was offered more money elsewhere, and took it.

Sounds like he would have made the team if he had not gotten injured- so you have to say that he made the right decision for himself, despite the injury.

fishmike wrote:Im not a big fan of bringing up old threads, but I cant remember a situation where more guys on this board went full tilt over losing an end of the bench player.

Oh... and by the way... NDour was cut.

Sound like he would have made the Mavs but for the injury...

I also think folks were annoyed that we let him get away as much on principle, than Ndour's actual potential.

You invest some fan love on a guy you did not know about who seemed to have some talent, and you want to see what he can do for your team.

I kind of felt the same way about Galloway last year, and luckily things worked out and he has become a valuable part of the team.

How would you have felt if the same process Ndour went through this year had happened with Galloway last year, and he had made second team All-Rookie in a Mav's uniform, and not ours?